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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 1:57:10 PM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Why do you think the pub owner chose a name that he knew would churn out some controversy, hmmm? He could have called it "The Robert Falcon Scott", a famous Plymouth captain (just a suggestion). There! No controversy. Aaahh... but no press either...


Not really, as I said in my original post, Hawkins was actually born in the area, a few feet from the establishment, is a commemorative plaque to Hawkins, commemorating what he did for the city and England at the time of the Spanish invasion. Seeing as the Plaque is there, I in a similar position as the new owner of the pub, would have considered adopting Hawkins name, to tie in with the local history.


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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 1:59:07 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Funnily, Hawkins is the last name I would have thought of were I the pub owner, in those circumstances... goes to show that life is a rich tapestry  .

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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 1:59:19 PM   
Devonshiremade


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Joined: 6/24/2007
Status: offline 		Hello
From Plymouth myself and we have a pub being renamed Hawkins apparently the name of a slave trader is ment to entice us in hmm can't see it somehow.

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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 2:00:14 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

No idea, but have you heard of "The Boxing Rooster"?


Only briefly..........heard owt about "The Cunning Lass"?

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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 2:00:24 PM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Well, hello there! GREAT timing, Devonshire :-) .

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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 2:02:06 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Devonshiremade

Hello
From Plymouth myself and we have a pub being renamed Hawkins apparently the name of a slave trader is ment to entice us in hmm can't see it somehow.



What if he's selling slaves at 15 quid a go......interested?

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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 2:06:17 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

No idea, but have you heard of "The Boxing Rooster"?


Only briefly..........heard owt about "The Cunning Lass"?


Perhaps once, in a distant past... I seem to remember, in a haze of hoppy memories, "The Boar's Head", "The Whore's Bead", "The Talkative Frog", "The Queen's Bum" and "The Hobgoblin"...  

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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 2:13:17 PM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Funnily, Hawkins is the last name I would have thought of were I the pub owner, in those circumstances... goes to show that life is a rich tapestry  .


Maybe I am wrong, and I accept anyone who can put me straight, but the Plaque commemorating Hawkins existance highlighted his aid to England in need. The plaque I believe was erected by the council to provide interest for the tourists that graciously visit us regularly. Plymouth is also the home of the Mayflower Steps, where the pilgrim fathers departed England for the New World, that being America, a place that daily flies the US stars and stripes alongside The Jack.


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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 2:15:12 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

No idea, but have you heard of "The Boxing Rooster"?


Only briefly..........heard owt about "The Cunning Lass"?


Perhaps once, in a distant past... I seem to remember, in a haze of hoppy memories, "The Boar's Head", "The Whore's Bead", "The Talkative Frog", "The Queen's Bum" and "The Hobgoblin"...  


Sounds alright to me...did you piss on the bar in The Talkative Frog? or covort with a goat in The Whore's Head?........I know I would have done given half a chance.......

Pubs in my village in Durham....The Locomotive, The Davy Lamp, The Dovecot, The Workmens Club, The Bonny Lad

My locals in Manchester....The Lass O'Gowrie, The Flemish Weaver, The King's Arms.

Heard anything of those?

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 2:20:22 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Sounds alright to me...did you piss on the bar in The Talkative Frog? or covort with a goat in The Whore's Head?........I know I would have done given half a chance.......

Pubs in my village in Durham....The Locomotive, The Davy Lamp, The Dovecot, The Workmens Club, The Bonny Lad

My locals in Manchester....The Lass O'Gowrie, The Flemish Weaver, The King's Arms.

Heard anything of those?



Strange questions you asked there, NorthernGent... why would I ever piss on a bar?

As for your locals, nah, I never heard of them, except, of course, for "The King's Arms", but then again I'm southern shite  .

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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 2:28:33 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Strange questions you asked there, NorthernGent... why would I ever piss on a bar?



It's a Northern toast to health, prosperity and happiness.......

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

but then again I'm southern shite  .



Were you one of those fuckers waving 20 quid notes at Northern football fans during the miners' strike?

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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 2:31:22 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Were you one of those fuckers waving 20 quid notes at Northern football fans during the miners' strike?



You know very well I was far too young for such an abomination. Besides, I was on the side of the miners, even at such a tender age.


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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 2:35:16 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Dear, dear, dear, it seems we have a North, South divide issue here.Just chuck in a Yorkist and we can have a cross pennine war again.

I have a foot in both camps, a Lancastrian by birth, but Devonshire by ancestry.

Back on topic please


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 2:38:12 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		What else do you want to say :-p ?

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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 3:20:29 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

By the way DomKen I think Nelson was  the navigator flying a Sopwith Camel biplane in WW1.
http://www.aviation-history.com/sopwith/camel.htm


My bad. Just read a book of Trafalgar.

Should have been writing Drake.

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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 3:26:07 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Sorry Ken, im not quite with it today, now Im feeling like a complete doofus
snicker
here it is again
http://www.elizabethan-era.org.uk/sir-john-hawkins.htm
Lucy

If he's reasonably famous then I think we have to acknowledge that an Elizabethan privateer might have been of questionable morals. If he's from the town or it wa shis home port or something like that he's a valid subject for naming stuff after.

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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 3:35:45 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		They were all men of questionable morals....hang on....all men(and women) have questionable morals:)
Heh, just depends on your definition of questionable
This was the time of pressgangs to get sailors to man the ships, the english navy was far from perfect in most  respects. But they were the "best in the world", still are in my mind, but Im just a tad biased:)
Lucy

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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 3:39:23 PM   
Aneirin


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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Everyone in history might have a few skeletons in the cupboard,things that might not be so pc in this day and age, but are we right to focus on those skeletons and deny the best that they did for others.Picture the scene, had not the spanish been disuaded and they landed on the shores of England, what horror would ensue. Were the spanish an enslaving nation?

Hawkins had faults as we see today, but he responded in good stead when the country needed people like him.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 4:09:55 PM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Can’t they just call it the Red Lion?

Can probably point out a few other things named due to the slave trade…


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=394808&in_page_id=1770

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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 4:14:30 PM   
Raechard


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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Also where is the justice in whitewashing the past just because we are ashamed of it? I’m sure in a thousand years we’ll have no streets or pubs named after anyone associated with the slave trade, lost with these names will be the story behind them and therefore the lesson.

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