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RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 4:19:33 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Can’t they just call it the Red Lion?



Yeah exactly......call it The Cutty Sark...draw a ship on the side of the pub something...doesn't have to be anything fancy, just cut something out of the News of the World history section if need be and stick it on the side.....

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 4:23:04 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
By the way DomKen I think Nelson was  the navigator flying a Sopwith Camel biplane in WW1.

My bad. Just read a book of Trafalgar.
Should have been writing Drake.

Dont worry Domken . We all make mistakes. You do argue your corner Nothing wrong with that.
The truth is you do frequently slip into personal abuse as a substitute for debate. That is not consistant with a scientific approach.
I forgive you.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 4:31:49 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Yeah exactly......call it The Cutty Sark...draw a ship on the side of the pub something...doesn't have to be anything fancy, just cut something out of the News of the World history section if need be and stick it on the side.....


The Crowns Arms?

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 4:32:10 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
By the way DomKen I think Nelson was  the navigator flying a Sopwith Camel biplane in WW1.

My bad. Just read a book of Trafalgar.
Should have been writing Drake.

Dont worry Domken . We all make mistakes. You do argue your corner Nothing wrong with that.
The truth is you do frequently slip into personal abuse as a substitute for debate. That is not consistant with a scientific approach.
I forgive you.

Um...

Umm....

Non sequitur or ad hominen?
Both!

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 6:35:52 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I like this idea, call the pub something fun and descriptive,
don't name it after any particular person.


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Can’t they just call it the Red Lion?



Yeah exactly......call it The Cutty Sark...draw a ship on the side of the pub something...doesn't have to be anything fancy, just cut something out of the News of the World history section if need be and stick it on the side.....


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/28/2008 6:53:56 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I just find it extremely sad that there is so much hassle over a name.Knowing the pub that is seeking to renaim itself, anything will do aside from it's nicknames, some of which includes; 'dive, no one goes there , etc'. A woman has aquired the pub with a view to revitalising it, but has fell foul of the before unknown racial equality people across the road.She from what I can understand is doing her best and wishes to offend no one, but chose Hawkins due to the history of the area. Long is it that public houses in Britain have reflected a past history or other.

_____________________________

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Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/29/2008 2:57:50 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Anyway to end this saga the price of beer is rising so fast we wont have any pubs left soon.
£2.85 bar price for a pint of San Miguel lager, which I dont like anyway.

Fancy getting in a wooden boat and swanning off to Africa in the mid 16th century. Took guts that did. I expect thats why it upsets today's whingers.
Well done 'awkins me lad, well done. The Black Spot for everybody else.

Dont forget 'do gooders', in the Drugs trade those who sell are considered even worse than those who buy.
If you catch my drift.

On an historical note how did the traders know there was a market in the US. Had the slaves stayed in England Louis Armstrong might have spoken with a Birmingham accent an Jazz have been invented here.
The mind boggles.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 3/29/2008 3:34:58 AM >

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/29/2008 3:54:43 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Anyway to end this saga the price of beer is rising so fast we wont have any pubs left soon.



Pubs are closing at an alarming rate.

If I were in government, I'd make a point of actively discouraging this.

The pub is where working-class Englishmen socialise; it's the place where our sense of community is realised.

The social effects of pubs closing could be disastrous for the community and the government.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/29/2008 4:24:38 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		They will have to go to a Muslim Community Centre and learn maths.
An invite I got this very morning.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/29/2008 4:39:19 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Anyway to end this saga the price of beer is rising so fast we wont have any pubs left soon.



Pubs are closing at an alarming rate.

If I were in government, I'd make a point of actively discouraging this.

The pub is where working-class Englishmen socialise; it's the place where our sense of community is realised.

The social effects of pubs closing could be disastrous for the community and the government.


Could have something to do with the smoking ban as much as the price of beer. The pub in my parents village have lost 30% business since the ban and that is the only pub in the village so its not as if there is anywhere else to go but stay at home.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/jan/04/business.smokingban

The number of pints served in Britain's pubs and bars in the run-up to the busy festive period declined by almost 10% as chilly smokers, no longer allowed a cigarette inside a pub, cut short their drinking time or stayed at home.
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/7147786.stm
The landlord of a Kent pub is to send a petition to the government to try to get the smoking ban revised, claiming it has cost him 25% of his takings.

http://www.theargus.co.uk/mostpopular.var.2133200.mostviewed.worthing_pub_blames_smoking_ban_for_closure.php

I have noticed I don't go to the pub anymore when I'm in England, mainly because the people I know have stopped going and pubs generally feel more boring places, not because I'm a big smoker, I rarely smoke, I just enjoy the occasional cigar.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 3/29/2008 4:49:10 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/29/2008 4:56:40 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		The smoking ban is absolutely pathetic.
To see mature seasoned responseable drinkers of many years standing have to get up and walk outside just to have a fag is just plain wrong IMO.
Fag = UK idiom lol or slang when I am in a public bar.

I expect those that implemented the ban are pleased with themslves not least because I would guess they never visit pubs and it doesnt effect them.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/29/2008 5:01:36 AM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I feel the defending pub owner has a valid point,
<snip>
What do others here think, a valid point by the race equality people,


I think that both sides have a valid point, and that it's a really unfortunate situation for everyone involved.  The pub owner can certainly name her establishment anything she wishes, and it sounds like the pub was in need of re-branding, among other things.  Naming it after a well-known local historic figure certainly makes sense - such a thing would appeal to both locals and tourists - and "Hawkins Meeting House" is a melodious name for her establishment.  It's understandable that the REC folks would be upset about seeing someone who was involved in the slave trade honored in such a way - every day, right across the street - and with their involvement in the celebration of the abolishment of the slave trade, they would be remiss not to speak up about it. 

quote:


or political correctness gone mad?


I don't see any "gone mad" in there.  They're not threatening to burn the place down or even insisting that she change the name, they just said it's unfortunate she chose to name the place after Hawkins and that some people are going to be offended. 

As for "political correctness", I'm getting really tired of seeing that phrase used to imply that people who are offended by something have no right to express their opinion. 

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/29/2008 5:07:59 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		The problem here is that there is no limit to what will offend some people and the PC brigade dont just "express their opinion" they often try to interfere and impose their values on others.

Boringly say in racial matters, less so in other areas..

(in reply to MmeGigs)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/29/2008 5:29:57 AM   
MyMasterStephen


Posts: 219
Joined: 8/16/2005
Status: offline 		Edward Colston was a significant figure in the slave trade.

Here in Bristol we have a statue to him, and two schools named after him as well as a theatre.  The existence of the statue, erected in the late 19th century, causes some occasional controversy.

However, that statue and those establishments were set up in a different age.  They exist, and we by and large accept their existence BECAUSE they were created in a different time, when thoughts and ideas were not what they are now.  We don't generally call for their removal, because we recognise that they represent the man himself and his times, together with the morality and beliefs of the times in which they were established.  They are historical documentary.

But if someone were today to suggest that a statue of Colston be erected somewhere, despite all the good he did for the city, there would be a general outcry because of the source of his wealth and altruism.

Were the owners of the pub fully aware of Hawkins' past?  Is he generally known as a privateer  who fought alongside Drake (who was also a privateer)?  If so, then fair enough: Hawkins was a bit of a rogue who came to the country's aid in a time of need.  But if he is generally known locally as a slave trader who happened to give Drake a hand one wet weekend in 1588, then the pub owners would have been fully aware of the controversy they would be creating, and have done this as a publicity stunt.

Here in Bristol there is a pub which bought up a small derelict site next door and turned it into a car park.  On a large board facing the road they showed the name they had given this parking area: they called it the PORKING yard.  The pub owner claimed it as a joke commemorating the fact that the area used to have a lot of butchers and used to be known as "Pork Alley".  Fair enough.  But complaints were received from the establishment next door - a Somali Mosque.  Should the pub owner have showed a little more consideration for his neighbours, or was his joke valid?

The court ordered the sign to be changed.  It is now called the PQRKING yard.  Still a joke?

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/29/2008 5:58:16 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		On such a minor issue why do you appear to be so sensitive to Muslim feelings ?
These one way concessions are completely counterproductive, much to my amusement and satisfaction.
I can just see such concern being acted out in a devout Islamic country.
Do people like you never ask yourself why we should change when these immigrants have come here for their own economic advantage.

Lets build up Somalia I say, then fewer will arrive.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 3/29/2008 6:04:47 AM >

(in reply to MyMasterStephen)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/29/2008 6:02:51 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

The mind boggles.



Not very surprising, really, is it  ?

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/29/2008 6:05:55 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Oh its you again !!! My mind has got bigger boggles than yours.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/29/2008 6:11:00 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I'm your Jeremy Cricket, Seeks. It's my job to jump up at you like a "Jack in a box" every time you say something silly  . Shame I can't keep up.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/29/2008 6:29:15 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I suppose we, the British are our own worst enemy, we use our sense of fair play against ourselves by thinking how our actions may offend others all the time and so stuff ourselves up.Political correctness is a weapon to be used where and when it is suited by those who wish to control.

My last home had a pub frequented only by the black community, I thought it ironic that the pub was called the 'Blackbird', and I suspect I was not the only one that knew what a ' Blackbirder ' of old was, yet I saw no campaigns to change the name, the black community loved their pub.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: PC madness or a valid issue? - 3/29/2008 6:32:00 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

My last home had a pub frequented only by the black community, I thought it ironic that the pub was called the 'Blackbird', and I suspect I was not the only one that knew what a ' Blackbirder ' of old was, yet I saw no campaigns to change the name, the black community loved their pub.



Hmmmm...

You know, I'm sure you would have been welcome to come in for a pint.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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