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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/28/2008 10:00:01 PM   
SteelofUtah


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Two comments inparticular I wanted to discuss because they struck me HARD.

First is GiantSteps. After reviewing what you said and what I had said although there was a little more Foundation, at least I would like to think there was, you are absolutely right.

By the By that is something that caught me rather profundly in that I see where in each situation, other than the one you seperated because as of now I do not know when I will talk to her again or not. as of now all 4 have kind of dissapeared as well as one friend who read this and assumed I was talking about her and well that seems to have been a bad luck draw for me.

Another thing that struck me is that I only have Female friends. I don't like guys. I didn't really fully come to terms with this until I read what has been said. What is worse is that now due to the things that have been said I wonder if I know how to be friends, and I mean AT ALL.

AtlantaMistress said something that has me in deep thought. I am a Overy Sexual person because Sex is not Taboo with me. In ANY Mode, I find sex as a Natural activity the kind of thing that can be shared with friends and the like. Sex is just an action to me something done for enjoyment I LITERALLY Put it in the same catagory as watching a Movie or Having Coffee at a Bohemian Cafe. This leads me to wonder if My NON-CHALANT behaviour toward sexual activity or possible my agressive nature toward getting to know anyone in my life is really just being misconstrued.

So the question now stands as How does one inform someone about thier extreme nature and explain it realisticly without making it sound perverted.

A little background. I live in a Town where the LDS (Mormon) Rule is nearly Absolute there is NO community out here so I don't have many Face to Face Friends as my wife and I live this way completely so company usually doesn't blend. We have friends that we spend lots of time with but it is usually casual and I have come to learn the ins and outs of these friends so I look to the Online world to meet new people in hopes of making that friendly connection that will eventually go somewhere.

I currently have a Goal I am looking for a partner to add to my home and so I usually ask about a new friends desire or possible interest in getting to know us in that design however usually no one is sure and so there is no definitive answer and so there is always this "Elephant" in the living room, I try to maintain a strictly "getting to know you" line of questioning and conversation until something Clicks and I think to myself "That is exactly what I am looking for"

So Giant Steps you are certainly correct in your assessment to the degree that I presented the senario that led to the dissapearance but the foundation of the friendship I THOUGHT I had forged was believe to have been stronger than suggested.

And AltantaMistress I appreciate the position you presented and allowed me to relate to, The only issue is how do I respect the other individual when sexual discussion is the same as passing the time with another. I make jokes and Flirt but it literally is only as a joke and the laughter has been leading me to think they were getting the joke.

How do you make friends when no one is setting thier own boundries to you and your personal Boundries say "Anything Goes"?

Thanks for all the great replies

And MontrealPheonix I want to thank you for one saying what you said, however I am attracted to you and would love to convince you that we are the perfect couple for you but alas you won't take the bait (LoL)

derfrewop, careful with comments like that eventually there won't be enough room for Me and My Ego on threads like this. Thank you for saying thouhh made me feel good.

As Always

Steel

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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/28/2008 10:23:05 PM   
GiantSteps


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Personal opinion, Steel, but the simple logic suggests to me that, if you have no personal throttle, let them control the speed.  That's a little counter-intuitive to a hardwired Dom personality, but if you think about it, you were doing great with "girliegrl' - you Do know how to be a friend - you just screwed the pooch by letting your natural no-throttle take over.

You're not going to have much luck with announcing your throttle-less condition as some kind of handicap - "Pardon me if I sometimes come on strong, I have no natural sense of control" - it won't scan well. Just take what you get at face value, let it be what it is, and if you feel an urge to torque things up, beat it back with your hand cat until it whimpers and crawls back under the stairs. In other words, look at it as their friendship with you, instead of your friendship with them. Think about Superman shaking hands - if he doesn't hold back, somebody's getting a pile of jelly back for a hand. Gotta be where they're at.

That's my 2, Steel - I'm sure you'll be fine now that you've nailed it.

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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/28/2008 10:33:42 PM   
SteelofUtah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GiantSteps

 Think about Superman shaking hands - if he doesn't hold back, somebody's getting a pile of jelly back for a hand. Gotta be where they're at.



Fan-Fucking-Tastic Advice WELL SAID.

I honestly had NEVER thought of it that way. Cocky and Arrogant as I can be I relly never thought that through that way.

Steel

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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/28/2008 11:39:39 PM   
HeidiAnn


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My flesh is weak, so i do try to pick my friends according to that.:)

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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/29/2008 12:05:14 AM   
NakedOnMyChain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~


Are you buying me dinner, first?

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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/29/2008 12:09:18 AM   
SteelofUtah


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Sure and I'll even let you Super Size it.

But don't think you are getting Lobster without sending me a Kidney Shot (Think Hustler)

Steel

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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/29/2008 12:11:14 AM   
Leatherist


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OP?

I have a nasty mean profile that chases away women like that.. I only get ones that show up for coffee. I have NO idea why you keep attracting flakes.

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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/29/2008 2:27:26 AM   
solia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

So the QUESTION? Do you think it is really possible for Male Dom's and Female subs to be friends when there is flirting involved or when the friendship is emotionally involved? Do you think that a Female Domme can be frineds with a Male sub and keep it STRICTLY Platonic? And do you think that they relationships can be sustained when one person is interested in the other for any reason.

When Sex is involved, or rather sexual attraction, can Friendship actually be achieved?

        YES to all of the above.

Do you often think that just because the person being your friend discusses sexuality with you that they are only intersted in having sex with you?

     NO...although I am on the receiving end of this belief and have to disappoint many, I have had an equal amount of great sex conversations.

How is frindship in this lifestyle supposed to be sustained in this lifestyle if everyone simply assumes the worst of the other person?

  HMM...you've got me here.  I simply walk away from these kinds of people and don't seek friendships or any other kind of relationship with them.  I have better things to do than try to make a friendship work with someone who is going to constantly believe the worst of me.  But then, I'm one of those kinds of people who will trust what someone says, watch their actions and let them prove me right or wrong.


< Message edited by solia -- 3/29/2008 2:29:52 AM >

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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/29/2008 3:12:19 AM   
solia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I currently have a Goal I am looking for a partner to add to my home and so I usually ask about a new friends desire or possible interest in getting to know us in that design however usually no one is sure and so there is no definitive answer and so there is always this "Elephant" in the living room, I try to maintain a strictly "getting to know you" line of questioning and conversation until something Clicks and I think to myself "That is exactly what I am looking for"



Steel


You know Steel, I have a friend who uses a similar approach in finding a wife.  When he meets a woman, or if a woman smiles at him in the grocery store, or responds to his email on Match.com, he immediately goes into 'wife sizing' mode.  In ten seconds or less, he's determined that said woman who just smiled at him would be a good wife for various reasons and he ticks them off on his fingers.   Needless to say, he constantly wonders why he doesn't get a second date.
I've told him to stop the wife sizing exercise and to just get to know the person.  We women sense that like a fly senses dogshit.  And we flee like the wind.  Except in certain circumstances, we don't want to be looked at as an object that you went shopping for.
With the new information that you wrote about your isolated community, it seems that you may be a little desperate to expand your group beyond your wife and yourself.  Desperation is a stinky affair.  So, maybe these subs aren't exactly hip on walking away from their familiar environments because of that smell.
Irregardless of whether you make a good friend or not, get over yourself and make some male friends. You can learn how. I'm not all that hip on girl friendships because I just don't relate on a lot of levels but I have girl friends that I can bounce stuff off of and get a 'gender' related suggestion or just another perspective. I also watch these friends and how they interact and ... gosh ... I've learned a few things from them. 
You'd be absolutely amazed at how many LDS are total freaks in the bedroom!  Ooops!  Did I just let that secret out?  Sure did....and then, one time, there was that cute little missionary and his partner ...

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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/29/2008 3:48:56 AM   
lusciouslips19


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You know, time and time again I see profiles that say,"just because I e-mail you doesn't mean I want anything more than a friendship". Just because a guy says this doesn't make it true. I am smart enough to feel and see ulterior motives. Unless I am speaking to someone through these forums and have learned about them here, What is the reason for their contact?

So if someone male wants to be my friend he should start at a place like this and maybe establish a common interest for the reason he is communicating with me. the rest I am suspicious about. Even more suspicious in that I have a Sir and there is a picture of us in my photos. It doesn't show platonic interest if a man hasn't read my profile or looked at the pics to see I am unavailable for more than a real platonic relationship. The men who wish me good luck always get a response because it shows they have read my profile and are respectful. Just a few thoughts. Plus,those who e-mail with 1 sentence e-mails now know why.

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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/29/2008 5:23:06 AM   
darklachrymosa


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Maybe they all knew that there's no such thing as a cupcake pie, Arrrch...

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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/29/2008 5:49:13 AM   
darklachrymosa


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Pulling teeth from a very alert gorilla, huh?  I've been (actually, still generally AM) that very alert gorilla.

I think that part of the normal gender dynamic is flirtatious behavior.  In today's society, where homosexuality is about as accepted as heterosexuality and androgyny often flourishes, the flirtation expands to include acceptable levels of flirtation between same genders.  I mean hey, what's pretty or fascinating to me is pretty and fascinating regardless of what's betweeen your legs.

Your first case...you say you had 'the conversation' after a "slew of bad failed relationships."  Well, hell!  Any overtures that come after that are likely to make a chickie go running!  I had a catastrophic relationship with a dom that I was very, very emotionally invested in, and two years later there's things my current dom does or says that triggers a  memory and makes me want to run away.  Pain from a beating is one thing to want, but the prospect of repeating the emotional misery that accompanies relationships of any level can be a daunting prospect, and one that we're not always brave enough to face.

Sometimes I think the levels of trust and intimacy that are invested into a D/s relationship are deeper and become more intense than those of a vanilla one...which of course makes the disintegration of that relationship so much more painful.  And masochism only takes you so far.

Case 3...why my goodness, I believe you are talking about me!  I'm the same way, and I've frustrated more than one person with my redirects and my walls...without even realizing I'm doing it.  I wonder sometimes if I linger, hiding behind my walls because the way I gain enough trust in someone to where I'll open up and let them in is simply because they stay.  My dom complained about that for awhile...said it felt like he was always running into a wall, headfirst, again and again when we would talk.  Of course, I was simply enjoying the conversation with no inkling he felt this way.  Apparently, there's still moments when I slide back into that.  Not everyone opens up right away, and some of us need to know that you're going to stick around before we can bring ourselves to be vulnerable

As for case 4, well, I can understand that one too.  I'm in college, taking enormous class loads while holding a fulltime job,and sometimes things just get busy.  Term papers, overtime, studying...on and on.  The last thing I can have time for is to sort out some tangle of an online friendship.  If you're interested in retaining her friendship, I would email and explain yourself, with the caveat that you understand she might be busy right now, but you hope to cultivate at least an honest friendship.

Anyway.  Back to the...whatever.  I've had male friends for years where it's been strictly platonic, and yet others will ask how we're involved, because of the apparent sexual tension between us.  So I would say yes, it's possible,a nd that electricity can make it delicious. However, its delicious because it's unknown and enticing, and should actual sex become involved than the mystery disappears, and it might be more fun to go somewhere else and have that mystery all over again.

As to discussing sexuality...I think it's possible to have frank discussion of sexuality, but I suspect it's easier between same genders.  I've had very frank discussions of sexuality with female friends, and while there are admittedly extremely high levels of attraction between us, we're friends first.  I don't know that I'd have the same discussions with my male friends...but that could be because I'm like on of the guys, and I kind of want to keep it that way.  However, there's a male coworker who knows some of my kinks and will ask me questions and entertain discussion because he wants to know, not because either of us are interested in sleeping with each other.

A friendship in this lifestyle is sustained the same way it is in any other lifestyle.  It takes dedication and trust and caring.  Just like you have quarrels in your 'real life' relationships, be it family, romantic, or friends, you're going to have them here too.  Sticking it out and fixing the problems, even though it's not fun, is what forges that relationship stronger.  Yes, there's going to be people for whom that's too much work.  But think about ratios in real life - think how many relationships of any degree have been failed in real life, and then apply that same ratio to this lifestyle.  I think you'll find it's not so very different.

Finally, assuming the worst of people is self defense.  I do it alot, for a lot of different reasons, and unfortunately, I'm not often very wrong...

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/29/2008 5:51:48 AM   
RavenMuse


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First off, I don't specificaly seek 'friends' on sites such as this. I have plenty and friendships tend to form without going out of My way for them.... yes including some where the initial contact was looking at if there was the potential for more than a friendship and when the chemistry simply wasn't there things simply settled into a friendship.

I flirt and banter with friends, not for any hidden adgenda but rather because flirting and bantering is FUN. Once the fact that the chemistry isn't there has been acknowledged then such flirting is 99.9% taken for what it is, harmless fun.

Note there is a difference here from the situations outlined in the OP.... I make no pretence of looking for 'just a friend' and then try to take things further. Rather I look for what I am seeking and 'friendship' is a fallback position if what I am looking for isn't there.

The other situation, is where there is the spark of attraction and dynamic but the situation simply doesn't lend itself to being acted on. I tend to be quite honest about that attraction which takes the 'threat' out of it rather than it going unmentioned and it being picked up as an ulterior motive. It is acknowledged, in the open, discussed and set as being something that wouldn't be acted on..... unless the situation changes.

I have met a few girls who simply couldn't handle having a friend with whom there was a mutual attraction where the situation wouldn't allow that to be acted on... that is something THEY have to work on in themself, *I* don't have a problem with it and have the self control to make it a none-issue.... it does give a nice edge to some of the flirting though LOL




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(in reply to SteelofUtah)
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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/29/2008 6:01:49 AM   
AtlantaMistress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
How do you make friends when no one is setting thier own boundries to you and your personal Boundries say "Anything Goes"?

Steel


My personal advice - as soon as you get to know someone, enough to be yourself, you explain what you just said - that you are very openly sexual, joke around a lot, and hope it doesn't offend them. I am very much the same way. I do not sensor myself for others (I'm always a lady, but my mother used to joke: A real lady knows when to spit, and when to swallow LOL).  Some people can't take it, others have no problem with it. I will tell you that when I was married, it was much easier, since I was always totally faithful - so people knew I was joking. Once I got divorced, I had a friend pull me aside to tell me that my behavior may be misconstrued or I was leading men on - since now the "joke" really could be seen as reality. It was hard for me, so I would just say, flat out, as soon as I knew someone enough to be myself (doesn't take long) "I hope you understand, I am always joking about this stuff. Trust me, if I was serious, I'd make sure you had NO DOUBTS." Maybe that would work for you as well.

Good luck Steel. BTW - you can message me anytime you feel like joking around about sex - I can take it!But I can dish it too!


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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/29/2008 7:15:27 AM   
SteelofUtah


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**Gets Pen and Paper**

What's your Mother Phone Number..... She sounds Interesting.


Steel

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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/29/2008 9:01:28 AM   
Justme696


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quote:

Do you think it is really possible for Male Dom's and Female subs to be friends when there is flirting involved or when the friendship is emotionally involved? Do you think that a Female Domme can be frineds with a Male sub and keep it STRICTLY Platonic? And do you think that they relationships can be sustained when one person is interested in the other for any reason.


yes, it can be done. And as a Master to my girl, I watch my borders strictly, so none of the others might get a wrong impressions.
I don't like "false hope"so I am always clear there is nothing to be expected from me. Some stay away then..others say.."i understand" and continue to be friends.
Besides that..I informed my girl of the friendships I have here.

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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/29/2008 10:16:01 AM   
khem


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Wow, what a great discussion.  As someone who has a "looking for friends mostly" in my profile, I'm totally guilty of some of this.  I guess the reasoning behind it is:

1) 99.99% of people I come across are not going to be romantically compatiable, so saying "mostly friends" is actually true,

2) while I may be looking for a relationship, I do also like making new friends, so someone should not avoid contacting me simply on the basis of not being what I am seeking in a partner. 

I also tend to enjoy flirty friendships - but I see no problem with them as long as everyone is also a good communicator.  Also, I have had great relationships develop from people I initially had no attraction to, but became friends with.  As for the never hearing from someone again, I think when that happens they lack the ability/desire to communicate about why they are no longer interested (in friendship or otherwise). 

In my opinion, you didn't "do" anything wrong, you just found some poor communicators.  Also, letting people know in a domly sort of way your nature might be a good idea for you too - IE: "Just so you're aware, I tend to be a very big flirt.  I enjoy women as both friends and lovers, but by my nature I'm very sexual.  Just because I flirt, I want you to know that I still respect whatever boundaries you may have with regard to being not interested in more than friends" 

I dunno.

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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/29/2008 10:46:23 AM   
lally3


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hey steel,

was mulling this over while walking the dogs, amongst other things....

flirty friendships are fun and light and noone takes it all that seriously, things are said and agreed with, cos it keeps the friendship smooth, as a friendship only, it doesnt much matter on here what you agree youre into or not, the compatibility of minds and humour are enough.

maybe when the coast was suddenly clear those 'things' you explicity described and they went along with we'rent actually what they were into atall.  maybe it had nothing to do with your 'in your face approach' and personally i think that approach is the best for getting to know a person fully anyway.

just a thought.

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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/29/2008 10:57:53 AM   
UncleNasty


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Steel,

I can't even get all the way through your original post without feeling compelled to comment.

"Like pulling teeth from a very alert gorilla." That is among a select few of the best phrases I've heard in the year. I'm gonna add it to my book. LOL

Uncle Nasty

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RE: ~~Let's be Friends.....Now can I see you Naked??~~ - 3/29/2008 10:58:16 AM   
Curlymass


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GiantSteps

Personal opinion, Steel, but the simple logic suggests to me that, if you have no personal throttle, let them control the speed.  That's a little counter-intuitive to a hardwired Dom personality, but if you think about it, you were doing great with "girliegrl' - you Do know how to be a friend - you just screwed the pooch by letting your natural no-throttle take over.

You're not going to have much luck with announcing your throttle-less condition as some kind of handicap - "Pardon me if I sometimes come on strong, I have no natural sense of control" - it won't scan well. Just take what you get at face value, let it be what it is, and if you feel an urge to torque things up, beat it back with your hand cat until it whimpers and crawls back under the stairs. In other words, look at it as their friendship with you, instead of your friendship with them. Think about Superman shaking hands - if he doesn't hold back, somebody's getting a pile of jelly back for a hand. Gotta be where they're at.

That's my 2, Steel - I'm sure you'll be fine now that you've nailed it.



I really think that this is excellent advice.

I have lots of male friends and I flirt with them all but have set up boundaries and know who I can push limits with and who never to.  When a moment of weakness rears it's ugly head I just don't say anything until it has passed and I have some control back.  Best if you can avoid an awkward situation from the start.  It's hard to repair once it's gone too far.



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