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Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 8:40:41 PM   
pain4gain


Posts: 20
Joined: 3/21/2008
Status: offline 		What was your first experience of Sadism or for that matter Masochism - when did it first make an impression on you? I was about 12 at the time, with my father dead 2 years my mother re-married and I gained a stepfather. Many of you can guess what comes next. . . he was what they call a street angel, home devil. Friendly and good company outside the home but once home a calculatingly viscious bastard who terrified yours truly with the thrashings inflicted on his mother. For years growing up I pleaded, threatened and screamed but all to no avail, he would not give up his beatings and she would not leave him. At about the age of 17 a dim glow lit inside the old brain box as I noticed that whenever he started to calm down and simply snarl abusive threats at her she would do her level best to provoke him until he lashed out and they were off again. I started thinking back right to the very first time he thrashed her, yes most of you will have guessed - she deliberately provoked him and had been doing so ever since. The penny finally dropped when I put two and two together to realize that the next morning, it wasn't the blackening eyes or bruised arms and legs that stood out the most it was the way she walked. . you know the way!

My elder sister is the same, married to what is termed an abusive husband but they have been together 40 years and she thinks the sun shines out of his @rse. My eldest brother is a viscious bastard with a loving wife who adores him. . . and me? I'm arrogant and intent on controlling any situation I find myself in and from an early age I learnt the symbiotic relationship between pleasure and pain, the poets skate as close to the truth as publishers will allow when they talk about the exquisite pain of love.

< Message edited by pain4gain -- 3/28/2008 8:41:07 PM >

_____________________________

A roman soldier calls up to the centurion on the gates "Sir I've captured a Gaul!" Centurion calls "Bring him inside for interrogation." After a minute or so of silence the roman soldier replies brokenly "Sir He won't let me!"

I am the Gaul. .
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RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 8:49:15 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		I think you're full of it. Either you know it, and hope we won't notice, or you've fooled yourself as well. You're mother was abused and now you want to do the same thing to someone else and  you've twisted it all in your head to be something it's not. I'm glad you posted this so any prospective sub can see and know to stay far far away.

(in reply to pain4gain)
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RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 8:54:49 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		What you describe sounds like a whole bunch of dysfunction, violence and abuse. I wouldn't make a connection between that and BDSM, consensual masochism or ethical sadism. You further go on to say that you and your siblings have grown up to be equally dysfunctional. It bothers me greatly that you or anyone else would view this as anything remotely close to what this lifestyle (for back of a better word) is about.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 3/28/2008 9:04:34 PM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to pain4gain)
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RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 9:11:46 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		You posted here thinking that somehow this is the norm for us? I'm afraid that you are sadly mistaken. The majority of us into BDSM came from loving, supportive homes. There are a few out there who do use the scene to replay traumas from childhood, but do so as a cathartic means of being in control of the situation the second time around. We also have set standards for ethics, for the most part. If your story is true, and not some whole cloth creation so you could "get close" (which would be a little pathetic in itself) for some reason, then I'd suggest you look into getting some professional help. Abusive behavior is something you learn from your parents, and can pass on to your kids. Perhaps you can break the cycle, and become a happier person in the process.

"exquisite pain of love" my ass...  :(

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 9:23:41 PM   
pain4gain


Posts: 20
Joined: 3/21/2008
Status: offline 		I don't recall mentioning a desire to emulate either my step father or my brother! Did I not say I was traumatised by what I saw as a child? Accusing me of being a violent abusive personality is jumping to a pretty big conclusion don't you think?

I totally despise any man or woman either who takes out their desire to inflict abuse on anyone. Read the post a little closer please, I merely pointed out that in my case the abused and abuser were not as normally painted by society.

Instead of accusing me of something despicable how about asking instead of making unfounded assumptions?

Tnstepsout, I know exactly how my mother was abused and just because it may not have happened in the lives of somebody you know doesn't give you the right to accuse me of either lying or being a twisted abusive shadow of the prick who was my stepfather.

mistoferin there are many dysfunctional families in this world and I just happen to have come from one. How you can assume that I am making a connection between the lifestyle and that of domestic abuse is beyond me. Surely you have not lived such a sheltered life that you have not come across families such as mine.

For others who may be tempted to jump to unfounded conclusions and make uncalled for accusations I will clarify - my stepfather was a drunken, viscious, abusive sadist whose actions and attitudes sickened and appalled me then as they do now. Nevertheless it WAS my first knowledge of sadistic behaviour. And YES my mother did deliberately provoke him and wouldn't leave him. In case you haven't run across such people they exist which doesn't give anyone the right to say I'm full of it just because you don't know anyone who has suffered in this way.

I grew up and out, leaving at an early age to get away from the sickening situation.

I TOTALLY DESPISE ANY PERSON WHO IMPOSES ANY FORM OF ABUSE ON ANYONE OR TREATS THEM AS SUB-HUMAN WITHOUT ITS BEING CONSENSUAL. Can I make that any plainer?


_____________________________

A roman soldier calls up to the centurion on the gates "Sir I've captured a Gaul!" Centurion calls "Bring him inside for interrogation." After a minute or so of silence the roman soldier replies brokenly "Sir He won't let me!"

I am the Gaul. .

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 9:29:59 PM   
atursvcMaam


Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline 		as i was reading this, i asked whether you were looking for background for the book or paper you were trying to write.  if so, good luck with that, but you will get more reasoned answers if you are straightforward about it, and the content, if your post is an indication, would set my hair and teeth on edge.

if, on the other hand, you are trying to work out your childhood issues, then professional help, as recommended is quite in order and could be quite useful here, again, good luck with that.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to bipolarber)
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RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 9:47:26 PM   
pain4gain


Posts: 20
Joined: 3/21/2008
Status: offline 		There's a lot of jumping to conclusions going on here, I worked out the issues I had when I left home at 16 to escape a totally unacceptable homelife. I rejected, as one who posted was so kind to describe a dysfunctional lifestyle and live as normal a life as most. I don't abuse anyone nor condone it in anyone else. All of you so far have posted opinions and made accusations based on your interpretations and not on the actual post.

My family was as I described it and if some of you can't believe such people exist then you need to stick your head out of the sand and take a good look around.


_____________________________

A roman soldier calls up to the centurion on the gates "Sir I've captured a Gaul!" Centurion calls "Bring him inside for interrogation." After a minute or so of silence the roman soldier replies brokenly "Sir He won't let me!"

I am the Gaul. .

(in reply to atursvcMaam)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 9:51:32 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		From what you have described, it sounded like your mom enjoyed it or at least encouraged it, which would point to the fact that she wanted it on SOME level.  I don't think anyone can really draw the line between "abusive" vs acceptable except those involved in the particular relationship.  I am sure a lot of vanillas would term what bdsmer's do as "dysfunctional" too.  

For all anyone knows this was the 'game' or the 'kink' that your mom and him enjoyed.  Maybe she liked a vicious bastard who 'thrashed' her, so she provoked him.

Food for thought:  Is giving someone a black eye abusive and dysfunctional, but giving them a bruised and welted ass ok?  

Who can really answer this, except for those who are participating in it and or consenting to it. 

The only thing I would judge here is the fact that you, as a child, witnessed this stuff.   Other than that, I'm not surprised that someone who identifies as vicious came from an environment where they saw this type of thing going on.  How many submissive females were sexually molested or otherwise abused as children?  If you read the threads around here, tons of them were.  So, wherever your kink or even 'dysfunction' came from really isn't the issue, as long as you're not inflicting it on someone unwilling or 'without their consent'.

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to pain4gain)
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RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 10:01:18 PM   
pain4gain


Posts: 20
Joined: 3/21/2008
Status: offline 		MarieToo I wouldn't describe myself as vicious, but I understand that there are people who are kinked both on the giving and taking of abusive punishment within the family as I witnessed it first hand. There is nothing brutal about me or domineering for that matter, I am arrogant but not to anyone elses disadvantage. I do try to impose my own outcomes on any situation I find myself in but this doesn't exclude working with others for an agreed outcome, surely this is still imposing my own choice?

_____________________________

A roman soldier calls up to the centurion on the gates "Sir I've captured a Gaul!" Centurion calls "Bring him inside for interrogation." After a minute or so of silence the roman soldier replies brokenly "Sir He won't let me!"

I am the Gaul. .

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 10:04:21 PM   
atursvcMaam


Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline 		if one needs to go through with a red pencil it takes most of the fun out of it.  you lost me when you said that your stepfather inflicted thrashings on his mother.
Poets and publishers pay attention to grammar and punctuation.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 10:13:07 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pain4gain

MarieToo I wouldn't describe myself as vicious,


Sorry about that. I misread.  It was your brother you described as vicious.

quote:

 but I understand that there are people who are kinked both on the giving and taking of abusive punishment within the family as I witnessed it first hand.


Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.  In some cases, it can be something that they're each getting off on.  Vicious, abusive, whatever words one may choose to describe it, some people like it.


_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to pain4gain)
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RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 10:18:57 PM   
pain4gain


Posts: 20
Joined: 3/21/2008
Status: offline 		I'm sorry to have offended your sensibilities with my grammar maam but this is the way I talk - and post. If you find it offensive, annoying or merely wrong that's not my problem. Your cynical attitude to my real life family situation is very un-annoying.

Jump to as many conclusions as you want, impose your own standards as you see fit, this doesn't change the facts. If you want to call me a liar without one shred of justification that's your problem.

And as for 'losing' you - I wouldn't want to 'catch' someone with such a closed mind, ready to accuse on personal bias. 

_____________________________

A roman soldier calls up to the centurion on the gates "Sir I've captured a Gaul!" Centurion calls "Bring him inside for interrogation." After a minute or so of silence the roman soldier replies brokenly "Sir He won't let me!"

I am the Gaul. .

(in reply to atursvcMaam)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 10:22:24 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Pain4Gain,

No Assumptions from my court nor will you get something dealing with if you are right or wrong. I will say that Freud would have a field day with your current desires but the question you asked was of my first experince.

I am neither a Sadist nor a Masochist however I LOVED to tie up my Stuffed Animals and the girls I was friends with. I was ALWAYS sexually Stimulated and was VERY interested in playing House every chance I got. So my earliest KINK aware moment was when I was 8 and I tied a girl to the tree in the front yard and then "Humped her" on the tree. Sure I did not know it was kink then but I would think back on it 8 years later and wonder if there was a Pattern I had been following since the beginning.

Hope that helps you any.

By the By the tone you take in your original post is someone aluffish and this could be why you are getting such back lash, don't make the story Grand, just TELL a Grand Story and things usually work out better.

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to marieToo)
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RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 10:31:26 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pain4gain
mistoferin there are many dysfunctional families in this world and I just happen to have come from one. How you can assume that I am making a connection between the lifestyle and that of domestic abuse is beyond me. Surely you have not lived such a sheltered life that you have not come across families such as mine.


Nope, no sheltered life here. Actually, I spent many years working in the field of Domestic Violence and to be honest, I don't really believe that I have ever known anyone who came from a NON dysfunctional family. I don't believe they exist, there are just different degrees of dysfunction. According to your accounting, yours leaned toward the farther end of the spectrum.

What troubles me about your post is that you are posting on a BDSM message forum about your experiences with sadism and masochism in a way that assumes that people here will be able to relate to because they are involved in BDSM. The problem is that the sadism and masochism you describe are completely different than that which we discuss here and/or practice. You are comparing apples to oranges.

What further troubles me is that in your description you seem to imply that your mother was asking to be abused when the more likely reality is that she was stuck in a situation that for whatever reason, could not see her way out of. It is a very common behavior pattern of victims of domestic violence to provoke or escalate attacks. The reasons they do so have nothing to do with them "wanting" it and have been well studied. You further go on, in what seems to be an attempt at making it all seem "ok" by saying your sister thinks the sun shines out her abuser's ass, your brother is a vicious bastard but his wife adores him in spite of it....and you are an arrogant control freak who understands the relationship between pleasure and pain. Maybe I have misunderstood your post but it certainly seems as though you are saying that everything is fucked up and hunky dory all at the same time.



_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Abraxus)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 10:32:47 PM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		i wouldnt fuss so much about the grammar you chose to use...but when interacting online, the *only* thing we have to go on is someone else's words.  jumping back and forth in person (from first person speech to third person) makes your post a bit confusing.  you are, of course, free to speak (and post) as you wish, but if you wish to be understood easily, you might consider changing your written style a bit.

now! as for your question...my parents are still married (46 years next month) and my father was abusive towards me in all the fun major ways.  he never hit my mama, but kept her in emotional bondage by telling her "you dont want to make me angry".  he knew he had a temper....he didnt stop to realize HER family dynamic was that her parents fought, and her father disappeared for a few days.  my grandfather was a depressed alcoholic.

after the sexual abuse began, i started with self-injury to escape the emotional pain.  that was my early start to finding pleasure in pain.  Daddy has strictly forbidden me to harm his property, so i'm very proudly now at getting close to 3 months without slipping and having a not-accident, pretty amazing considering the state of my marriage, and the tension that finally lead to the decision to divorce, and me to relocate.

its not all one incident that is an "early influence".  its the cumulation of watching batman rescue the girl tied to the pole, gilligan, the skipper, and the professor rescuing the girls from the canibal natives,  the cowboys rescuing the captured girl from the indians, the fact that i was the only girl in the neighborhood for several years... 

and the simple fact that being restrained turns me on something fierce.  being told what to do makes me content because i know exactly what is expected of me.   pleasing Daddy makes me happy inside.  add it all together, and throw in the fact that the physical pain sensations when done correctly not only over-ride the emotional stuff i still struggle with, but release lots of nice brain chemicals that leave me content and calm for a few days....and that's the why of it.

kitten

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RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 10:41:08 PM   
pain4gain


Posts: 20
Joined: 3/21/2008
Status: offline 		Steel thank you for a balanced response. Freud would have a field time with any person on the planet, all of us are kinked in some way or other. I'm not trying to make the story grand either, that was exactlywhat I went through growing up if people can't believe that such families exist they have only to go to the nearest community center to find the truth. Do I sound aloof in my writing? Do I sound as if I'm talking down to people? If so then I suppose I will be constantly flamed and accused of lying and talking down to people every time I dare to make a post because people dislike my phraseology because this is the way I speak and post. I won't change my postings becuase to do so would be dishonest.

_____________________________

A roman soldier calls up to the centurion on the gates "Sir I've captured a Gaul!" Centurion calls "Bring him inside for interrogation." After a minute or so of silence the roman soldier replies brokenly "Sir He won't let me!"

I am the Gaul. .

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 10:51:02 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		pain4gain,

My comment on Aloofishness was based on the grandstanding you made in your post with regular "You Guessed it...." or "I'm sure you alreay know" It almost sounded like Bragging

Trust me I find nothing trivial about your life growing up nor do I find it something someone should joke about. I don't doubt what you talked about happened I am trying to explain why some of the comments came across rude and off puting.

I am only suggesting you just tell the story, explain what happened, the little extras which I am sure in your head sounded conversational come off a little cocky or grandious at times.

Steel 

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to pain4gain)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 11:21:40 PM   
pain4gain


Posts: 20
Joined: 3/21/2008
Status: offline 		Perhaps mist I should be a little more explicit in my posting. I don't assume that they relate because they are into BDSM. I AM ASSUMING that you have come up against just such an attitude as you ASSUME I presented. I was merely alluded to the fact that the BDSM is often tied to just such attitudes, if I gave the wrong impression then I apologize for giving such an impression but nevertheless that is what people believe - people - not me. As for my mother's situation I don't think you understand the situation fully so I will enlarge. After I left home at 16 to gain some sanity in my life I saved enough to help her shift away from him and start a new life - I BEGGED HER TO LEAVE HIM, she refused point blank to do so. Yes she was in an abusive and violent relationship but she didn't want out for whatever reason. As for my sisters attitude to her husband, I described it accurately with no commentary on her attitude to her husband - that is your assumption - if I must spell it out to you and others - I realize that victims of this sort of abusive behaviour often react this way and that the situation IS NOT IN ANY WAY ACCEPTABLE, once again - for the umpteenth time .. I TOTALLY REJECT ABUSIVE FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS. How many times and how many ways must I repeat that I wonder? My brother was such a man and your disbelief doesn't change the facts. As for arrogance that is a matter of interpertation - do you call a certainty of self-control in most situations arrogant? I do. And as for being a control freak, I seek to control nobody else but me and my reactions to other people - you know the type of lack of self control I'm talking about - unfounded accusations, jumping to conclusions, that type of thing.

Finally my family was fucked up - I rejected that and have lived as normal a life as most do. I may be proud of my self control and my ability to deal with any situation because of it but at least I'm not so opinionated that I will make assumptions and accusations on the 'tone' of any one particular post. I always seek to find the truth of any situation before I open my mouth and even then I'm more inclined to keep it closed rather than flaming someone because I 'feel' they are saying or doing something wrong.


_____________________________

A roman soldier calls up to the centurion on the gates "Sir I've captured a Gaul!" Centurion calls "Bring him inside for interrogation." After a minute or so of silence the roman soldier replies brokenly "Sir He won't let me!"

I am the Gaul. .

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 11:42:34 PM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		The one that sticks out in my mind occurred when I was twelve.  I was babysitting a boy who was only a year or two younger than I was, and he had friends over.  They played a game of tie-the-babysitter-to-the-basketball-pole-so-we-can-go-play.  That was the first incident where I truly remember being like, "This is fun!  I like being overpowered by boys!"  It evolved from there.  But I've always rooted for the strong, bad guy in books and I've always loved women being tied to the train tracks.  So there's that, too.

My dominant streak didn't emerge until much later, and I still, in most sexual situations, prefer the feeling of surrender to one of dominance, though each has its place depending on the person.  For play without the sexual undertone, it's a toss-up, and still depends upon my dynamic with an individual.

< Message edited by NakedOnMyChain -- 3/28/2008 11:44:46 PM >

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

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RE: Your early influences? - 3/28/2008 11:57:31 PM   
atursvcMaam


Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline 		So, how is your sex life?

not meant to be opinionated, nor particularly a "flame" but it is not based on any foundation.  i don't know you from Adam.  Yes,  even if i told you mine was superb, or described all of the difficulties i have had, it is probably not a question to which i would expect an immediate or straight answer.  Depending on who was asking the response might range from "i will tell you later" to "it's none of your business".  i would always wonder, and make presumptions as to why the question was asked, as well as why someone would tell me their life story.  Not meant to be snarky, but simple, natural curiosity with a relatively unnatural sense of paranoia.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to pain4gain)
Profile   Post #: 20
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