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RE: You said you wanted! - 10/3/2005 11:14:34 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: helpless1

Well i have to admit that i have done exactly what you are talking about. i can tell You what it might be in some cases. Fear!

Certainly it is easier to talk about those darkly desires that creep around the back of your mind when you are sitting in front of a computer. Then They want to meet You. Personally i am always attracted to the "Sadistic Bastards" not that that is a bad thing mind you. *chuckles* It's just that it took me about 4 or 5 false starts before i worked up the nerve to actually step out into the lifestyle and Live my life. The more intense the stuff you speak about the more likely you are to scare one who has not lived it yet away. Even if eventually, as i have learned is true for myself, these things that scare are the things i find the most satisfying.

I don't have a single doubt that fear is the culprit in many cases, I know for a fact that was the case with several I've known (a couple of which came back months later and appologized for how they treated me, nice touch that). I can understand and sympathize with the fear, or at least I can if given the chance. For someone new to this lifestyle and still learning and exploring their own feelings a certain amount of fear is not only natural, it can even foster a healthy caution.


quote:

i guess all i am trying to say is it's not always a case of misrepresentation, sometimes it's just plain nerves. i am glad i steped through the door finally for myself. i actually feel kinda bad for the Men i spoke with prior to getting up the nerve. One in particular was just. . .*hmmmmmmmm*. . . .compelling. But time does not travel backwards.

Ah, but you see, it is a case of misrepresentation. You meet someone online, you talk with them, you share fantasies, you express your interest in those fantasies and a desire to make them real... and then the person you've been talking with, flirting with, getting closer to asks to meet and they go "poof", that is frustrating. That's called leading someone on, its unintentionally being a tease. What would be far better is if said submissive was honest about their fear. Let the other person know they are scared of the very things thay are talking and fantasizing about, and that they aren't ready to take it any further than just talk for now. That would cut out so much misunderstanding. I have an online friend right now who's done exactly that. I've known her for almost a year now, when we met she knew almost nothing about anything. I spent a lot of time explaining things to her, pausing in conversations to define words, explain fetishes, etc. I've watched her grow, learn and experience some self discovery. We're still just friends, no plans to meet, an I'm alright with that because it was clear from the beginning that right now she is too afraid to take that step. I hope she changes her mind one day, I'd like to meet her, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it. The point being of course is that it avoided all the frustration expressed above, and we've had a friendship out of it that we've both enjoyed.

Although this thread started out as a rant, a need for one person to blow off some steam, I think some good could come of it. I know from some I've talked with that fear is indeed an issue, but I also have observed they don't necessarily know how to deal with it. I have no problem with someone who wants to talk and think things over for awhile before they ever consider meeting. I don't think I'm the only dominant who can have that patience. But it is frustrating for us to meet someone, talk and seem to be moving towards something only to have that person disappear. Part of being a good submissive is having a care for your dominant... so have a care, just be honest with us, most of us can be pretty understanding if you give us the chance. If all you really have to offer is friendship, then be upfront about that. A period of friendship can also be a good foundation for something more later; if you're open to that, be honest about that too. But please, just be honest about what you seek, what you have to offer, where you are in life... it helps to avoid so much confusion and frustration and unrealistic expectations. To borrow from the Rolling Stones... have a little sympathy for the devil.

Please allow me to introduce myself,
I'm a man of wealth an taste.
Pleased to meet you, can you guess my name?
But what's puzzling you is the nature of my game.


_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to helpless1)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: You said you wanted! - 10/4/2005 4:36:25 AM   
MistressMelissa


Posts: 226
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
Thank you all, for your replies.

I guess I just expect too much of others. I've been guilty of it my whole life.

Thanks again for all your input.

_____________________________

Melissa
Mistress of Ds Haven
www.dshaven.com

The person who says it can not be done, should not interrupt the person doing it. - Ancient Wisdom

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: You said you wanted! - 10/4/2005 6:11:12 AM   
helpless1


Posts: 10
Joined: 10/3/2005
Status: offline
Aye, i do feel shame for what i have done Sir. Though i swear it was never intentional. What happened for me was that i met quite a few Men off this site for coffee or what not. But always the "safe" ones. The ones i truely connected with, the ones who could make me "feel" those were the ones that scared me. And though i wanted to, i just could not bring myself to meet them.

Perhaps my thoughts might have some value for Your friend. i sat down and thought about what i was doing logically, and did not like what i saw. Pushing away what i truely desired out of fear, and meeting only those whom i knew in my heart would never be hard enough for me. i realized that was getting me no where, and placing me again and again at risk. Meeting someone off line is always a risk and i was perpetuation my own problem. So, . . .i decided that i would take the leap. i decided to pick one person, who was of preference involved in the local scene, and trust them. Then if i trusted them it would follow logically that anyone they trusted could also be trusted. i chose one who was a friend to me not one who looked to possess me. i chose wisely, i was very fortunate and now i am living a life i only dreamed of. i still serch for where i truely belong but i am much closer than i was before when i was alone and afraid of who i was.

i urge the nervous to take the leap to the public scene. Though it is VERY intimidating, it is also MUCH safer than meeting man after man alone with no real knowledge of who they are. Think of it this way. If you are at a social and yell for help, trust me 18 people will be there in 10 seconds flat to make sure you are okay.

Well this was suppose to be my 2 cents worth, but i guess it ended up about $0.68.

living life for real,

helpless

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: You said you wanted! - 10/4/2005 6:25:37 AM   
Kasia


Posts: 442
Joined: 6/25/2005
From: The Coast of Adria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressMelissa

I guess I just expect too much of others.

You are not the only one. I am just like that too.
I expect from others as much as I expect from myself - as my husband recently told me thats fine only when my job is concerned, other things no. Not all people have the same level of courage, honesty, intelligence.... etc.

But I still cannot get over that and not reproof.

I would truly like to be like Padriag here...... so full of understanding for human flaws and imperfections. Men are very wonderful creatures sometimes

_____________________________

I DO have profile - just lost an S somewhere along the way

Kassia

(in reply to MistressMelissa)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: You said you wanted! - 10/4/2005 7:37:49 AM   
hawk58


Posts: 51
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
In my expereince, even the ones who say they want to be treated as property, don't actually mean they want to be treatd like a piece of property 24/7.
Even though they may wear your collar, and they may be your property, we must never forget, they are still people, human beings, with human needs and emotions, that need to be fulfilled. Thats our responsibility to them, as their dominant or owner. To remember they are human first, property 2nd.

Property; a vacume cleaner for example: you use it for its purpose, and then put it back in the closet out of sight, and out of the way. Sorry, but submissive's or slaves, don't want to be treated like a vacume cleaner, or other household tool or appliance. They need affermation from time to time that they are doing a good job. They need to be recognized for the person they are, not just the role they choose.

Like others here have said too, get to know each person as a person first. In the end, after much time has been spent, getting to know that person, and molding them, and shaping them, you may EVENTUALLY get to own them as property. But that takes alot of time, communication and trust. It doesnt happen over night. You cant go into a store, or a site like this, pick up a slave in a cute box, with no limits, and treat it likeproperty, or a doll, and put it in your house or on your shelf... You have to like them as a person frst, lifestyle roles second. If you dont like the person, or cant find commonalities or interest in that person that exist outside the lifestyle, what will hold the relationship together later on? Again, over considerable time, after a person has learned to trust you, and your judgement, they might come to a place in their submission, where they can feel safe enough to want to be treated as property. They have to feel safe enough 1st, and trust you enough 1st. That means they have to get to know you the person 1st, not you the owner.

_____________________________

-Sir Hawk

Master of dove's Haven

"True Power/Control is knowing that You have the ability to use it, but choose not to."

Hearts in Service:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HeartsInService/

(in reply to Kasia)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: You said you wanted! - 10/4/2005 7:50:26 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: helpless1

Aye, i do feel shame for what i have done Sir. Though i swear it was never intentional. What happened for me was that i met quite a few Men off this site for coffee or what not. But always the "safe" ones. The ones i truely connected with, the ones who could make me "feel" those were the ones that scared me. And though i wanted to, i just could not bring myself to meet them.

I believe you, I believe you aren't alone in that either. I have met several, especially online, who have done exactly the same thing you describe. I'm glad you realized what you were doing and have changed that behavior, for your own sake as well as that of others. Most people don't screw up intentionally, its just the opposite in fact, we intend to do good and go wrong. That happens because our logic is faulty, we make the wrong choices because the way we reach those decisions was based on bad information or not being honest with ourselves. You realized your logic was faulty and the consequences of it, and you changed it, and for that good girl.

quote:

Perhaps my thoughts might have some value for Your friend. i sat down and thought about what i was doing logically, and did not like what i saw. Pushing away what i truely desired out of fear, and meeting only those whom i knew in my heart would never be hard enough for me. i realized that was getting me no where, and placing me again and again at risk. Meeting someone off line is always a risk and i was perpetuation my own problem. So, . . .i decided that i would take the leap. i decided to pick one person, who was of preference involved in the local scene, and trust them. Then if i trusted them it would follow logically that anyone they trusted could also be trusted. i chose one who was a friend to me not one who looked to possess me. i chose wisely, i was very fortunate and now i am living a life i only dreamed of. i still serch for where i truely belong but i am much closer than i was before when i was alone and afraid of who i was.

i urge the nervous to take the leap to the public scene. Though it is VERY intimidating, it is also MUCH safer than meeting man after man alone with no real knowledge of who they are. Think of it this way. If you are at a social and yell for help, trust me 18 people will be there in 10 seconds flat to make sure you are okay.

I think your thoughts might be of value to a whole lot of people right here at CM and I hope they read and think about it. Thank you for sharing it and in doing so saying something in a way perhaps better than the rest of us could have, because what you said came from the heart.

More than once I've encountered a submissive who behaved as you did. They would speak with me and I could tell there was a connection there. The things we talked about, the life I wanted excited them... but they wouldn't commit to it, to making it real and the reason in many of those cases was just what you describe, they were afraid. I see many submissives deliberately sabotage their own relationships because of fears they have, often stemming from unresolved issues in their past. I seem to evoke it quite a bit, perhaps because the passion in me reaches out to others and causes them to feel more than they are comfortable with. I was painfully reminded of it just this year in fact.

We'll call her K. I met her in a chat room and we became friends. I was a mentor to her for awhile, someone she came to for advice and explanations about things. K was bright, intelligent, caring, thoughtful, she had so many good qualities, it was easy to like her, easy to care about her. We became closer and began talking on the phone. Our conversations were wonderful, I could talk to her about such a broad range of topics, she was educated and liked to read. She took an interest in my interests, went to my web site and picked out three books from my library to read so she could discuss them with me. She was one of those rare people I could really relax with when I spoke with her, talking at my own level without having to be conscientious about my level of conversation. Sexually, well... you'd have thought we were a couple of teenage kids. She inspired me and she found a place for herself in my heart. She got to see sides of me the rest of you never will, peek in at those hidden parts, those fantasies I'll never talk about, find out about that secret world of mine I keep out of view. She was special to me and things were going great... until we started seriously talking about her coming to be with me as my slave. Suddenly the phone calls stopped, the emails became rare, the conversations in chat became more strained. K has fears and I knew what they were, I watched her struggle with them. You can lead a slave to water, but you can't make them drink. She kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, and when it didn't, she dropped it herself. She expected me to be angry with her, I wasn't. I was disappointed, sad and a little hurt, but not angry... I knew why this was happening. I think she wanted me to be angry with her, it would have made it easier for her. We haven't spoken since, I don't expect we will. I miss her, but you can't force someone into a relationship, either they want it or they don't. Either they get over that fear and take that next step or they don't. And when they choose not to... even though its frustrating, and sometimes it hurts, as a dominant we have no choice but to let go an walk away.

That's the flip side of that fear. Maybe between the two of us others out there reading this will pause and think and grow and change. One can only hope.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to helpless1)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: You said you wanted! - 10/4/2005 8:18:25 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
Hawk, very well said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kasia

I would truly like to be like Padriag here...... so full of understanding for human flaws and imperfections. Men are very wonderful creatures sometimes

Okay, now your just gonna swell my ego with talk like that!

I'll let you in on a little secret about me, I got this way precisely because I was tired of being disappointed all the time. I have incredibly high standards for myself, I always have. It was part of how I was raised as a child and also the experience I've had growing up. Everyone I've known has expected a lot of me, parents, family, teachers, friends, random strangers... high standards all the way around, I was not allowed to fail, I was not allowed to be anything except the best, the leader, the problem solver. So naturally when I was younger I tended to hold others to those same high standards... and spent a LOT of time being disappointed with people. It took realizing that all that disappointment, and in fact all disappointment in life, flows from one single cause... unrealistic expectations. My expectations of others had not been realistic... I was expecting them to do as I would do, or as I thought they should do, without considering who they were, what they wanted, what they were actually capable of. When I learned to start understanding people for who they are, I found myself being disappointed a whole lot less. That doesn't excuse peoples mistakes or the wrongs they do, but you sure are surprised by them a lot less. When you aren't surprised by it, when you understand why it happens, its easier not to get frustrated.

But I'll take those compliments just the same!

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to Kasia)
Profile   Post #: 27
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