A tough nut to crack - advice?

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Pyrrsefanie -> A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/1/2008 6:54:58 PM)
I apologize for the vent-y post, but I'm quite literally at my wit's end right now and I don't know what to do other than bang my head repeatedly against a wall. As some of you may or may not know, I have a pet who also happens to be my fiance. We've been together for two and a half years this June. There's some nursery rhyme out there, "when she was good, she was very very good, but when she was bad, she was horrid..." switch out some pronouns and you've got an exact description of him. Half of the time he's devoted and loving and all that a dominant could ask for. The other half of the time he acts like a spoiled, petulant child. I try to rein him back in and sometimes it works, but other times he justs resists that too and gets resentful and snappy with me. Which, of course, I take FAR too personally, because I'm guilty of taking everything that a loved one says, whether it be good or bad, to heart. There have been many times that I've managed to walk away from him, teeth clenched, just in time to sit down in a chair and cry out of sheer hurt and frustration while twisting his collar around in my hands, thinking "Good God, I can't do this, there's no way I'm ever going to be able to dominate him." And then I realize just how un-dommely that behavior is and feel even worse, like I'm a complete charlatan. Nine times out of ten he realizes he's fucked up when I don't want to speak to him, let alone even look at him because I'm so angry/frustrated/otherwise upset with him. And he'll come back to me and apologize, but it's always with an excuse. "I've had a hard day." "I'm tired." "I'm not in the mood." Stupid, soft me, I don't call him out on the excuses because I'm afraid it's going to trigger a massive argument, I just think "well, maybe he won't do it again." Yeah. About that. I know that people are human and that they have bad days... but he says he wants this. He says that he wants to belong to me and he wants me to be his domme, except I'm starting to think that in his mind, he only wants it when he feels like it, and the rest of the time there's no way I'm going to get him to submit, no ifs, ands, or buts. He's a procrastinator with everything. Out of exasperation I sent him to Miss Blue's spring training which is focusing on going back to the beginning of submission, hoping that maybe that would help him open up and be more receptive to my own training... so far it's been a fight to get him to do his homework that usually ends up in him snapping at me and me feeling like a huge pain in the ass to him. I've identified one of his big problems as being that nobody has ever stood up to him. He's ex-military, a big burly strong man type, with that typical Eastern European stubbornness that I myself am also very guilty of. People have always just tolerated his bullshit, and then along comes me, who wants to help him overcome his nasty habits and poor behavior, and I honestly think he reacts as he does out of shock and not knowing what the Hell he's supposed to do or how to react. Except for one brief stint as a submissive when he was a teenager, he's always been dominant. But according to him I bring that submissive side out in him, and make him WANT to submit. Wish he'd show it a little more often than he does. I know it's supposed to be about what I want, and I very badly want him to submit, but I feel like sometimes I honestly get scared at asking so much from one person. So... ladies... what am I going to do with him? What CAN I do with him, how can I overcome my own self-doubt and break him down to a more manageable level? Has anyone had a similar case? I like my boys to have a little bit of fight in them, but it's just ridiculous sometimes. Any advice is very much appreciated. EDIT: Tonight on Jerry Springer, femdoms say their sub is out of control! [:@] Seriously though, at this point I'm thinking handing the leash over to a big burly drill sargeant type to smack him around a bit would be pretty hot...

MamaDomme1 -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/1/2008 7:08:11 PM)
Just an idea-- I had to send a sub to Atlanta for a Ladies night of fun. I told him that when he came back he had better be very appreciative for me to allow him to go and he'd better be wearing stripes. Yes, the Ladies certainly did a number on him and he wore stripes for about 3 or 4 weeks! He sent me the most beautiful flower arrangement in appreciation. It toned his actions down a bit for sure.

MissLily -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/1/2008 7:10:56 PM)
very good post! Look, if he attacks your character and disrespects you as a person, he's not worth it. Nobody has the right to do that. I'm a bit in a hurry and can't give you the answer your post deserves, but here is a few ideas. You know, when you train a dog, you must be persistant ans CONSTANT. If he wants to submit, he must live up to it. If he fucks up, you punish. But don't let this affect your self esteem! The way you perceive yourself is very important. Him acting like a jerk doesn't mean you're not competant. And ask yourself if having you question yourself is not a way to escape for him. There's also the wonderful invention of the CB-6000. Chastity works magic. If he behaves, he gets to cum. If not, oh well... Miss Lily

LaMistressa -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/1/2008 7:43:43 PM)
This can be really tough to work with and to work through, but you have to try to work through it. Things that I have used: if he talks back/smarts back -- duct tape his mouth shut. If he's procrastinating, use some ginger up his ass (figging) or an irritant on his genitals (sports rub, etc.) that he isn't allowed to wash off or remove until the assignment is done. Plan in advance what your response to his next example of insubordination is, and then stick to it. If you don't break him of this habit, it will never stop. Best of luck and hang in there.

Pyrrsefanie -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/1/2008 7:47:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MamaDomme1 Just an idea-- I had to send a sub to Atlanta for a Ladies night of fun. I told him that when he came back he had better be very appreciative for me to allow him to go and he'd better be wearing stripes. Yes, the Ladies certainly did a number on him and he wore stripes for about 3 or 4 weeks! He sent me the most beautiful flower arrangement in appreciation. It toned his actions down a bit for sure. I'm about on the verge of that... I'm not sure how I'd feel about him physically being with another Domme, though, especially one that I didn't know personally. As for the ones I do know, I'm about to pack him up in a box and ship him to them with a note pinned to his shirt that says "Please beat me, I deserve it." quote: ORIGINAL: MissLily But don't let this affect your self esteem! The way you perceive yourself is very important. Him acting like a jerk doesn't mean you're not competant. And ask yourself if having you question yourself is not a way to escape for him. There's also the wonderful invention of the CB-6000. Chastity works magic. If he behaves, he gets to cum. If not, oh well... I guess I see myself as incompetent because I'm almost afraid to pull out the big guns and not back down when he's resisting so vehemently. But at least I'm not the only one who thinks he's acting like a jerk... I was worried that maybe it was just my perception or I was being too thin-skinned about it. And you make a good point. Now I have to wonder if he's not at least subconsciously trying to get me to back down out of maybe fear of letting me see him so completely vulnerable... and that's about the sixteenth point under the Buy A CB-6000 column so I think it's about time to start researching one for him. Although Blue's already got him in chastity for the month, it'd be so much easier for my own sanity, I think, if he were PHYSICALLY held there as well. Thanks, ladies. :)

MamaDomme1 -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/1/2008 7:49:24 PM)
The Ladies I sent him to, I didn't know personally but my dearest Domme friend and room mate, knew them all quite well. I do understand your hesitation.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/1/2008 8:50:01 PM)
I believe that actions and behaviors speak louder than words, and if he truely wanted to submit to you he wouldn't behave like a spoiled brat and fight you at every turn when you tried to assert your dominance over him. Also in my opinion submissives are still supposed to be submissive wheather they're in the mood to be or not. Because in my eyes a submissive doesn't claim to want you to domme them only when it's good for them untill they don't feel like it. quote: ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie The other half of the time he acts like a spoiled, petulant child. I try to rein him back in and sometimes it works, but other times he justs resists that too and gets resentful and snappy with me. Nine times out of ten he realizes he's fucked up when I don't want to speak to him, let alone even look at him because I'm so angry/frustrated/otherwise upset with him. And he'll come back to me and apologize, but it's always with an excuse. "I've had a hard day." "I'm tired." "I'm not in the mood." Stupid, soft me, I don't call him out on the excuses because I'm afraid it's going to trigger a massive argument, I just think "well, maybe he won't do it again." Yeah. About that. I know that people are human and that they have bad days... but he says he wants this. He says that he wants to belong to me and he wants me to be his domme, except I'm starting to think that in his mind, he only wants it when he feels like it, and the rest of the time there's no way I'm going to get him to submit, no ifs, ands, or buts. He's a procrastinator with everything. Out of exasperation I sent him to Miss Blue's spring training which is focusing on going back to the beginning of submission, hoping that maybe that would help him open up and be more receptive to my own training... so far it's been a fight to get him to do his homework that usually ends up in him snapping at me and me feeling like a huge pain in the ass to him.

TNstepsout -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/1/2008 9:51:41 PM)
Personally I don't think this can be fixed with punishments or activities. This sounds like something that goes to the core of your relationship and needs to be discussed in depth. He needs to know that if he makes the committment to submit to you that it can't be on his terms, and that he needs to think long and hard about whether he really wants it or not. It's not fair for him to keep jerking you around. You need a final 100% yes or no from him. If he says yes then there needs to be a very clear consequence if he continues to be defiant. Perhaps walking away from the D/s aspect completely for a period of time, 3/6/12 mos? Having a sub with some spunk is far different than one with a snappy, resentful disposition. That's just completely intolerable and needs to be nipped in the bud right away. He needs to know that no matter how tired or how bad a day he had that it's not acceptable to take it out on you. If there are other reasons for his resentment that you are unaware of he needs to talk to you about it, not snap and be rude. Pick a tough consequence that will really mean something to him. Make sure it does not feed a fetish. If you play regularly, maybe it's a week without play for every time he is rude. If he likes a certain activity in play, maybe it's a month without that activity. Then when he's back to his sweet self, make sure you don't give in. Remember to stay calm and don't let him rattle you. Remember when you start to get angry and feel defeated he picks up on that and can sense your weakness. If he is a strong willed person then he's going to test you to make sure you are strong enough of a leader for him to follow. That's just instinct. Hang in there. From what I've read of your posts you're sharp and a tough cookie.

undergroundsea -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/1/2008 9:53:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie And he'll come back to me and apologize, but it's always with an excuse. "I've had a hard day." "I'm tired." "I'm not in the mood." While pressures of life are more relevant in a relationship such as yours where a greater portion of life is spent together, and these pressures can deplete the stock of patience one has for all that happens, I expect one reason he is able to respond in the manner he does is that he feels there will be no difficult consequences. The matter is not black and white but grey--his behavior is a sum of how he responds when under however much stress, and what he perceives to be the consequence of responding in that manner. Increase in stress increases his tendency to behave in that manner, and increase in consequences will help counter that tendency. If it suits you, you might use this observation to determine when to pick your battles as you proceed to address this matter; when to challenge him head-on and when to walk away until he comes around. Smaller steps might help to eventually take bigger steps. quote: I don't call him out on the excuses because I'm afraid it's going to trigger a massive argument It might be good to reflect on why you are hesitant to trigger a massive argument. Some people simply prefer a harmonious world and avoid conflict. Another reason could be concern about whow well the relationship can withstand such a conflict. I think understanding the underlying concern would be helpful to you. There are communication techniques that can make such a conversation easier. In particular, there is a well-regarded book about non-violent communication/compassionate communication. There is a D/s structure in relationships which, much like other relationships, is a result of how the personalities balance out. This structure is usually defined by wit, strength in personality, and any lack of symmetry in interest in the relationship. You might have parity with respect to this type of D/s structure. And there is a D/s structure that is based on accepted D/s roles driven by sexuality and relationship expression. It seems the D/s structure of your relationship is more of this type. If so, perhaps there are rituals that can help keep the roles and mindsets more constantly in place, and keep in the forefront the forces that produce the D/s structure you have. A response of a submissive is a sum of the response of the different components of him. One component is the component that everyone else has; it is this component that responds to stress or to what is perceived to be unfair or disrespectful--I speak in general terms without suggesting that you are unfair or disrespectful. The point I wish to convey is that submissives are human and there is a part of them that responds much like every other person does. I am curious what he would say about what exactly is he feeling when he snaps. Uncovering what is driving his response could help reach an understanding (for example, if a submissive thinks he is not getting enough space, a dicussion could calibrate the respective expectations about what is adequate space--it could be where the dominant sees it to be, it could be where the submissive sees it to be, it could be somewhere in between). Punishment is an effective behavior modifier. It is most effective when a sub understands and, more importantly, agrees why the punishment is occurring, or what behavior instead would have prevented the punishment. In the absence of such understanding, the punishment could build resentment. For example, if a sub is punished for behaving outside his role and he feels it is acceptable for him to be outside his role during some portion of the time, punishment alone might build resentment; clarifying and achieving mutual agreement on what is acceptable first would help any subsequent punishment achieve its desired effect. My two cents. Cheers, Sea

Pyrrsefanie -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/1/2008 10:00:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaMistressa This can be really tough to work with and to work through, but you have to try to work through it. Things that I have used: if he talks back/smarts back -- duct tape his mouth shut. If he's procrastinating, use some ginger up his ass (figging) or an irritant on his genitals (sports rub, etc.) that he isn't allowed to wash off or remove until the assignment is done. Plan in advance what your response to his next example of insubordination is, and then stick to it. If you don't break him of this habit, it will never stop. Oh wow, figging sounds really nasty (in a good way)! And same with the sports rub... I'm going to definitely have to add that to my punishment arsenal, thank you for the suggestions and your advice! quote: ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss I believe that actions and behaviors speak louder than words, and if he truely wanted to submit to you he wouldn't behave like a spoiled brat and fight you at every turn when you tried to assert your dominance over him. Also in my opinion submissives are still supposed to be submissive wheather they're in the mood to be or not. Because in my eyes a submissive doesn't claim to want you to domme them only when it's good for them untill they don't feel like it. I wonder about this sometimes, too. He was the one to approach me -- to his credit he wasn't overbearing about it as some men can be -- which is what makes me hesitate a bit when going with this thought process, if he didn't want to do it in the first place, why would he ask? That's not meant to be snarky, I'm legitimately asking, as I'm still rather new to being a Domme and I've not got much experience with the way a sub's mind works. He's certainly more of a switch than a flat-out sub, that's for sure. That dominant streak of his is still running strong... previously I was using a "topping from the bottom" type session as a reward for good behavior, but I'm wondering if that's not just reinforcing his disobedience and stubbornness? I agree with you about a submissive not whining about not being in the mood... actually a bit of a relief to find out that someone else thinks that way. I was worried that perhaps I was being too unreasonable in expecting him to bend automatically after a hard or stressful day. At the very least I'd like it if he'd learn to be respectful about it -- an even toned "Pyrrsefanie, if you don't mind me saying so, I've had a rough day at work so I might be a little tough tonight" is much preferable to his usual raised tone saying "I've had a hard day at work, is that so hard for you to understand?!"

undergroundsea -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/1/2008 10:07:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss I believe that actions and behaviors speak louder than words, and if he truely wanted to submit to you he wouldn't behave like a spoiled brat and fight you at every turn when you tried to assert your dominance over him. Also in my opinion submissives are still supposed to be submissive wheather they're in the mood to be or not. I can imagine a scenario where one does want to be in a submissive relationship and yet have such types of conflict. In such a case, I don't think it is necessarily that the submissive doesn't want to submit, and could instead be that the lines about where everyday life lies and where D/s begins are unclear. This ambiguity may come from within the submissive as he tries to balance the different parts of him, or it may come because the relationship is still defining these lines. In my opinion, these lines are not absolutely defined and are laid out subjectively by the persons in the relationship per the different interpretations across D/s and M/s relationships. Cheers, Sea

Pyrrsefanie -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/1/2008 10:19:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TNstepsout Having a sub with some spunk is far different than one with a snappy, resentful disposition. That's just completely intolerable and needs to be nipped in the bud right away. He needs to know that no matter how tired or how bad a day he had that it's not acceptable to take it out on you. If there are other reasons for his resentment that you are unaware of he needs to talk to you about it, not snap and be rude. Pick a tough consequence that will really mean something to him. Make sure it does not feed a fetish. If you play regularly, maybe it's a week without play for every time he is rude. If he likes a certain activity in play, maybe it's a month without that activity. Then when he's back to his sweet self, make sure you don't give in. Remember to stay calm and don't let him rattle you. Remember when you start to get angry and feel defeated he picks up on that and can sense your weakness. If he is a strong willed person then he's going to test you to make sure you are strong enough of a leader for him to follow. That's just instinct. Hang in there. From what I've read of your posts you're sharp and a tough cookie. Aw, thanks, hehe. I was hoping it wouldn't have to come down to withdraw play, as that's a punishment for me too -- although, would it be completely horrible of me to maybe use that as a bit of a guilt trip on him? It's something I was kicking around earlier today. There are honestly times that I just want to rip that collar off of his neck and throw it out the window. Which is another thing that hurts me, thinking about it a little further -- when I collared him he was SO sweet and SO grateful. His behavior's gone downhill since that time and I'm wondering if maybe he's got it in his head that since he's got the collar, he doesn't have to try anymore? And it's not just with me that he acts like this. He tends to be a spoiled brat to other people as well, which is why I've been trying to place an emphasis on behavior modification. Even from a completely vanilla viewpoint, he's still my future husband, and he still will be representing our family unit as a whole, so I want to be sure that he can do that in a satisfactory manner instead of making people think "Wow, what a dick." quote: ORIGINAL: undergroundsea It might be good to reflect on why you are hesitant to trigger a massive argument. I'll be 100% honest -- it's because I'm terrified that one day I'm going to push him too far and he's going to walk out the door. The practical side of me chimes in here and says "Then he's an asshole anyway, and you're better off without him." The scared little girl that's still buried down inside of me then proceeds to remind me that I've never loved anyone as much as I've loved him before, and the thought of losing him is absolutely heart-wrenching. With regards to finding out what he's thinking when he snaps like he does, that's something that we've been working on since the beginning of our relationship. He has a tendency to internalize things, and when I ask him about what he's thinking or feeling, he remains silent or says he doesn't want to talk about it. To his credit he has gotten a lot better about sharing his feelings with me, but there's still a very long road ahead. And the mentality during "snappy-time," as I not-so-affectionately refer to it, is one of those things I'm still trying to get to. I agree that it's a very important thing to discover, though. I'm all for getting into people's minds and understanding what drives them to do and say what they do. Thank you very much, Sea, for yet another eloquent and well-thought-out response. Everyone here's given me a lot of food for thought already, so another thank you goes out to all who are taking the time to offer me help! It is much appreciated!

makemewrite -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/1/2008 10:32:52 PM)
Seems to me that you have a typical problem of a partner who doesn't communicate well. I'm wondering if he doesn't want 24/7 lifestyle, but only play sessions. If that's the case, you need a seriously long discussion (probably over several weeks) about whether that would work for both of you, and what it means to your pending marriage. It's not unusual to fantasize about situations that are more extreme than one can truly handle. Maybe that's what's happened in his case. At any rate, he needs to figure out what he wants and explain it to you.

AAkasha -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/1/2008 10:33:48 PM)
It's hard to give advice only seeing a snapshot, and a lot of people have given some great input already, but here are a few thoughts.... First, a Femdom relationship is a "relationship" first and foremost. As much communication you can have about these issues -- but NOT when they are happening - the better. When you are having a quiet breakfast or lunch some time, take an opportunity to address, "The next time you feel overworked and stressed...." Next - his age. Is he young? Some of this may be maturity related and he'll grow out of it. Another suggestion is making him journal/write, especially when you sense he's in that tense, inflexible, unsubmissive mood. The other issue to think about is incompatible mood fluctuations and desires. One of my biggest, ugliest problems in my 20s was getting boyfriends to understand that the words "No, I'm not in the mood tonight dear" were NOT something I wanted in his vocabulary, and that while I am -- 99% of the time -- a very fair, reasonable, level-headed woman, when I am having "those urges" then I am not reasonable, not fair, and NOT level headed. I had some knock-down, drag out fights where the end was result was him saying, "FINE! Go ahead then, BEAT ME!" and of course, that's NOT a good resolution, nor did I want to dominate a man who was doing it in a pissed off mood or out of obligation and the end result would be resentment on both ends and anger....what did I learn? I found a response I wrote to a post on soc.subculture.bondage.bdsm on April 11, 2002, and it kind of fits, so I will repost it here: I lost Katharine's post earlier today, but I wanted to respond to it. The one about saying "no." As a femdom, I have a few responses to this. First, I will distinguish this between saying "no" in a scene (playful resistance, for example) and "no" to potential play (ie, me saying, "Hey I am in the mood..I need it now..how about tonight?") In this case, I am talking about when someone says "no, I can't submit to you right now." This can be incredibly difficult to take. I actually wrote a document a long, long time ago and I think I called it "Care and feeding of your femdom" -- it was a lighthearted way to explain to my boyfriend at the time that he was certainly free to say "no" to me, but he had to understand that I may have a hard time accepting it. The challenging thing is that when you are in that "mood" as a femdom, to hear the word "no" is very difficult. It's almost painful. For one, because you want it so bad. Second, because a little voice in your head says "But I'm the femdom! I should get my way!" (even though you know it is the real world, and if he says no, he probably has a valid reason, and that needs to be respected). Third, you run into the worst scenario of all: When he says no, then you say "but I really need it...can we work something out?" and he says "no" and you ask one more time and he says, "Well, ok. Let's just do it." That is even worse, because how do you ethically go through with it and keep a clear head while thinking deep down, "He really is not up for this but I am making him do it anyway....I am a brute." The answer is you don't. It's just not worth it. In my "Care and feeding" document I presented a few simple rules for my partner about telling me "no." 1. Never say no and then back down if I nag you. No should always be no, but do not say no unless you really mean it; understand that it is hard for me to hear the word no. I will respect that 'no' however. 2. Always -- ALWAYS try to give me a "later" instead of a no. Even if it is "next week" or "three weeks from now" or "tomorrow night". If I have a date in my head I can go off on my merry way. 3. Offer something else -- just vanilla sex, or a long walk, or make dinner. Something to take my mind off of it. These rules have worked well for me. The best one of all is just making sure I know that I WILL get my play time, because they I can start planning ahead. In the real world, things come up that prevent a man from being able to submit. I have found that a very thoughful, serious submissive cannot be turned off and on like a lightswitch; it used to be hard to understand, but many years ago I realized that when a man says to me, "I want to feed this side of you but I am not emotionally up for it" it is because he puts so much of his heart and soul into it, that he literally can't do it. The concept used to seem foreign to me, him saying "I would do a shitty job trying to submit to you because my head and heart are not there right now." Men that really pour themselves into submitting are emotionally exhausted afterward, and if he's in too tired or fragile a mood, it's not worth it to either of us. And then there are the realities of the real world getting in the way. A few months ago I was just coming unglued with desires, and I had it all set up in my head when it would happen, and literally was salivating at the thought of it. Silver had a hockey game and it was going to be after that game. He got into a fight at the game and ended up needing stitches and we spent most of the late night in the ER for that; needless to say, he was in no frame of mind or body to be abused by me, and in fact we had to put it off for several days as he had a huge black eye. On a funny note, of course everyone that knows us asked if I gave him the black eye. Of course not, I told them. My bruises on him are always carefully hidden :) Akasha <gleefully still in domme mode> PS: Now it's 2008, and I'm still with "silver" - but when I wrote this, he was in his 20s. We had a few rough patches with regards to his mood not always jiving with my needs, but ultimately he grew out of some of his stubbornness and I beat the rest of it out of him :) Akasha

Pyrrsefanie -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/1/2008 10:48:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Is he young? Some of this may be maturity related and he'll grow out of it. Another suggestion is making him journal/write, especially when you sense he's in that tense, inflexible, unsubmissive mood. Truncated by Pyrrsefanie to avoid lots of scrolling although it's all effing FABULOUS advice Well... older than me. I'm 20, he's 24. But in the grand scheme of things, yep, he's a whippersnapper. Thank you for assuring me that he's going to grow up a little more. If he doesn't I think I may go lesbian or become a cat lady. My fear in asking him to keep a journal (I'm a huge fan of such things, myself) is that he'll use his standard excuse of "I've got so much to do, I've already got tons of homework, it's late, et cetera." I could always ask him to do it later, I suppose, but then I worry he'd lose that thought process that he enters when he's actually feeling those things. Would it be acceptable, in your mind, to tell him "tough shit, it'll take you ten minutes, write it down anyway?" Your post made me giggle and gave me a lot of hope for my boy. And I've learned a couple of things I've never really thought of, like this part: Men that really pour themselves into submitting are emotionally exhausted afterward, and if he's in too tired or fragile a mood, it's not worth it to either of us. Thank you, Akasha! Although now I'm really freaking jealous of you for getting to date a hockey player. Some women get all the luck, hmph. [:D] quote: ORIGINAL: makemewrite Seems to me that you have a typical problem of a partner who doesn't communicate well. I'm wondering if he doesn't want 24/7 lifestyle, but only play sessions. If that's the case, you need a seriously long discussion (probably over several weeks) about whether that would work for both of you, and what it means to your pending marriage. It's not unusual to fantasize about situations that are more extreme than one can truly handle. Maybe that's what's happened in his case. At any rate, he needs to figure out what he wants and explain it to you. I'd be absolutely smitten with play sessions. He originally presented it to me as wanting the lifestyle, but I'm with you in wondering if he really knew what he was getting himself into. So I still want to marry/reproduce with him, but hrm, now I'm thinking maybe that's WHY he's clamming up about it -- because he thinks that if he says he doesn't want the lifestyle, I'm going to turn on my heel and leave. Boys are dumb. [:'(] EDIT: Ladies and gentlemen, we have a resolution in the works... stay tuned...

chezzy52 -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/2/2008 1:44:12 AM)
Call me silly but it doesn't make sense if your boy is resisting you but yet claims that you are the one for him that changed his life and attitude so drastically.He's ex-military??Then he should know by now what discipline is.Not for anything but if this doesn't work out,why do you think turning Lesbian will suddenly improve your life??No offense but i think you have issues on your own if you are going to dismiss the entire male population on earth.You both have room to grow although he should know better..for chrissakes..you are only 20..give yourself and others a chance.

Politesub53 -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/2/2008 2:17:37 AM)
When a submissive refuses to submit, maybe just saying " Okay i am done with this " Will make him focus. If he really wants to be Your submissive, the thought of being vanilla instead will stop him in his tracks. i fully understand You being in love and not wanting to lose him, maybe the problem is he knows this all too well, and plays with Your emotions ? Anyhow i hope You are able to sort this out and good luck.

MmeGigs -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/2/2008 5:08:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie And it's not just with me that he acts like this. He tends to be a spoiled brat to other people as well, which is why I've been trying to place an emphasis on behavior modification. Even from a completely vanilla viewpoint, he's still my future husband, and he still will be representing our family unit as a whole, so I want to be sure that he can do that in a satisfactory manner instead of making people think "Wow, what a dick." It's been my experience that behavior modification doesn't work unless the subject sees the need for it and cooperates with the process. You've been with him for almost 2 1/2 years. It sounds like you've been working on this issue with him, but you say his behavior has gone downhill since you collared him. It seems likely that unless he has some kind of epiphany and wants to stop being a brat, things will continue on as they are for some time to come. If he doesn't think that his behavior is causing problems for him, your efforts to modify his behavior will likely just frustrate both of you. Were I in your shoes, I'd be asking myself whether the relationship is going to work for me long-term the way it is now. If it is, there's no problem. If not, I've got to have a long talk with my partner.

TNstepsout -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/2/2008 5:32:49 AM)
It sounds like you have gotten some good advice and are on your way to formulating a plan. I would like to make a few comments on some of your responses. When you mentioned using guilt, I hope you were just kidding around because I don't think that's a good idea. Guilt is a passive aggressive/manipulation tool. If your relationship is to be built on a solid foundation, those tactics should have no part in it. Don't chuck the collar unless you mean it. However, you might decide that he needs a break from the collar and remove it for a period of time. Perhaps giving him time to reflect on whether he really wants it and the dedication it represents. Also, it does sound like he has a lot on this plate right now and perhaps the two of you need to do some negotiation regarding how time/energy intensive his submission can and should be given the current circumstances of your daily life. One must be practical over all. He gets input and the two of you come up with a plan, however once he's agreed then he needs to stick to it without any snapping or disrespect. If something comes up and he needs to "change the plan" so to speak, then he MUST address you in a respectful manner. Really, that one is non-negotiable.

LadyPact -> RE: A tough nut to crack - advice? (4/2/2008 6:00:32 AM)
First of all, an admission to My guilty pleasure. I love Springer! No matter how rough things are in your real life, an hour of that makes you see that it isn't all that bad. [:)] Now, on to your problem. I can identify with a lot of what you are saying here. Many of us encounter it one time or another. It can be a stage of the relationship. When your boy sought after, and begged for his collar, he had a goal. That goal, was to win his ownership. This is something he has achieved. In a sense, he can now be comfortable. It might be seen that his quest is over. Your boy has the lady's hand. It has not yet been taught that keeping it, is just as much, if not more work, than obtaining it. Unfortunately, up to this point, you are perpetuating this. Your fear of losing him, enables his train of thought. If the tables were turned, and your fear not evident, do you still believe he would act this way? If the prize were not firmly in his hand, would he not try harder to grasp it? You must find the balance. Fear, specifically your own, is not the healthy dictator of a relationship. It is not good for you, and it certainly is not good for him. Remove that element, and you might find that things return to the proper order.

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