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RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 2:57:56 PM   
smilingjaguar


Posts: 271
Status: offline 		*FR*

Hillary's delusional.  If Obama can't beat McCain and she can't beat Obama, how the hell is she the better candidate?

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 3:04:59 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		on bear sterns- my rep has  phoned me in reply to my email.

(in reply to smilingjaguar)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 3:07:01 PM   
Pyrrsefanie


Posts: 1222
Joined: 9/18/2007
From: NEW HAMPSHAAAAAAH!
Status: offline 		If the two of them keep bickering like children, NEITHER of them are going to win.

This has got to be the most ridiculous presidential campaign year in history.  I don't like any of the candidates.


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Ти саркастична, це – доля,
Ти артистична в неволі,
Ти симпатична в цій ролі,
Ти синтетична до болю

Read my series, Taking Jessica, on http://www.akashaweb.com !

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 3:07:03 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

The way out of the mortgage crisis is for banks to fall and for people to lose their homes.


Actually, since the banks would fail, the loans would just be sold to another bank during the fire sale.

I wonder why the Government spent 30 billion bailing out Bear/Sterns and only 10 billion rebuilding NOLA...




Each member bank is a private bank (e.g., a privately owned corporation) that holds stock in one of the twelve regional Federal Reserve banks. All nationally chartered banks hold stock in one of the Federal Reserve banks. State-chartered banks may choose to be members (and hold stock in a regional Federal Reserve bank), upon meeting certain standards. Holding stock in a Federal Reserve bank is not, however, like owning publicly traded stock. The stock cannot be sold or traded. Member banks receive a fixed, 6 percent dividend annually on their stock, and they do not directly control the applicable Federal Reserve bank as a result of owning this stock. They do, however, elect six of the nine members of Reserve banks’ boards of directors.[16] Federal statute provides (in part):

There is what needs to be changed ASAP, the banks control the Federal Reserve, so looking to the Federal Reserve to  look out for anybody other than the banks is crazy talk, it is impossible for the Federal Reserve which is entirely an instrument of private banks to act in a way that is anything but advantageous to its owners.


REPEAT PLEASE: The federal reserve is owned and controlled by banks. It's a fact. Now, why would the banks use something they own and control to do anything other than help themselves? Answer: They won't.

Solution: Remove the federal reserve. It's the only solution, as the banks own it and control it.

< Message edited by NeedToUseYou -- 4/3/2008 3:08:21 PM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 3:07:57 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611



War? I dont even care about war in this Presidential election because I dont believe the president has the ability to alter our foreign policy.



One of your most brilliant statements to date....Why does anyone place value on your musings?


Our foriegn policy...Has Pres. Bush directly been able to single handedly alter it? When you answer that question you will begin to see why your posts so often lack insight.


Our foreign policy has essentially been unchanged for nearly 50 years....We support Israel no matter what. We are policing the world in areas that benefit our national interests. And we are still playing as if we are fighting the cold war.

What exactly has Bush done that is different? Invaded a country? JFK did it..twice. LBJ did it. Reagan did it. Clinton did it (a few times). Where is it that Bush changed our foreign policy...please explain....

Clinton went to war against Serbia in 1998, why?? To stop Slobodan Milosevic from killing 2,000 people? Give me a break.



You shortsightedness is astounding...Just because other presidents have gotten us into wars does not mean that they didn't change foriegn policy.

If you can't see that our foriegn policy has now changed significantly from Clinton to Bush then we need not continue....You are right everything is the same. Just because we still support Isreal does not mean that things have not changed....But where we choose to exert our will has....Oh, I'm sure you simply decided to forget about this....This is all a part of "our" foreign policy....And some of our foriegn policy is formed by the support we can garner from our allies...Due to our foreign policies of late this "support" IS NOW AT AN ALL TIME LOW. But I'm sure you still view everything as being the same. Did you miss an invasion?

Ice cream is still ice cream....I'll eat Ben and Jerry's...Here you can have some of this shit flavored stuff...You won't be able to discern the difference because it is afterall ice cream...What could possibly be the difference?

< Message edited by domiguy -- 4/3/2008 3:08:52 PM >

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(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 3:08:44 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smilingjaguar

*FR*

Hillary's delusional.  If Obama can't beat McCain and she can't beat Obama, how the hell is she the better candidate?


This is like one of those logic questions you  find on a test like the LSAT...

(in reply to smilingjaguar)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 3:13:02 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		Our foreign policy is determined by our national and economic interests....if you cant even see that...Im not even going to bother go any further with this arguement.

That's like the first lesson of any international relations course.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 3:13:03 PM   
MistyMenthal


Posts: 413
Joined: 3/28/2006
Status: offline 		To much fighting on the democratic side.
 
non on the republicans side.
 
MCcain wins.
 
Always, misty

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 3:24:44 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

I feel Obama will move the country in a dangerous direction towards socialism and government control of economic matters.



I just had an orgasm at the thought . Heaven.

More like pure unadulterated hell. Government control of economic matters has never succeeded. Socialism sounds great in theory, until you remember that individuals rather enjoy their individual ideas, thoughts, and desires. Then socialism self-destructs.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 3:32:10 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Our foreign policy is determined by our national and economic interests....if you cant even see that...Im not even going to bother go any further with this arguement.

That's like the first lesson of any international relations course.



So then what you must be saying is that no president is capable of shifting or altering where our national and economic interests might lie......Care to go further with this argument?

Check and mate....It's all so easy with you....Let's just make this easy in the future for the both of us...When I say "jump" you just simply respond "how high."...lol.

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(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 3:32:21 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Government control of economic matters has never succeeded. Socialism sounds great in theory, until you remember that individuals rather enjoy their individual ideas, thoughts, and desires. Then socialism self-destructs.



If only it were true... alas! It won't happen quite yet. I think the next election, in 2012, has a chance of bringing about the fruits of the revolution. For this one, I bloody well hope that neither Fries McCain nor Sister Clinton win. I burn incense and look at their horoscopes. I can tell you that Obama has the best star sign of the three for a future president (Leo).

I send general vibes of victory into the ether. We shall see :-D. But socialism... GASP! It's SO sexy!

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 3:37:48 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Government control of economic matters has never succeeded. Socialism sounds great in theory, until you remember that individuals rather enjoy their individual ideas, thoughts, and desires. Then socialism self-destructs.



If only it were true... alas!

It is true. Stalin's Ukrainian famine, China's Great Leap Forward famine, North Korea's famine of the late 90's....

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 3:42:29 PM   
Pyrrsefanie


Posts: 1222
Joined: 9/18/2007
From: NEW HAMPSHAAAAAAH!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Stalin's Ukrainian famine


Completely off-topic, but I just wanted to e-hug you for bringing this up.

Stalin's forced famine in Ukraine was a horrible thing that sadly very few people know anything about.  Thank you for bringing this to light so people can perhaps learn about it, and hopefully never let it happen again.

Ще не вмерла Україна, ні слава, ні воля...


_____________________________

Ти саркастична, це – доля,
Ти артистична в неволі,
Ти симпатична в цій ролі,
Ти синтетична до болю

Read my series, Taking Jessica, on http://www.akashaweb.com !

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 4:19:26 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Our foreign policy is determined by our national and economic interests....if you cant even see that...Im not even going to bother go any further with this arguement.

That's like the first lesson of any international relations course.



So then what you must be saying is that no president is capable of shifting or altering where our national and economic interests might lie......Care to go further with this argument?

Check and mate....It's all so easy with you....Let's just make this easy in the future for the both of us...When I say "jump" you just simply respond "how high."...lol.


And how exactly do you think Obama, the savior of America, will shift economic and national interest from the mid-east? We LIVE on oil! And even if our energy policy changes it will take DECADES for it to change our foreign policy. It took Brazil 30 years to get off foreign dependance for energy. You think we can do it by flipping a switch and electing a quasi-communist to the White House? Get real. And get your head out of the clouds.
Obama pulls out of the mid-east and Iraq goes into Civil War we will be paying a forture to the oil companies. We dont have price caps. We cant control the world oil market. We will go into a deep depression as the cost of shipping goods increases astronomically.

Go ahead....keep living that fantasy of yours that Obama is going to bring world peace. Because when he is elected and we are still stuck in Iraq 2 years from now....dont say I didn't warn you. When he says he's pulling out of the mid-east....The man is lying through his teeth! I'm telling you that right now! I know how these politicians think and talk. Obama is no different. He is as crooked as the rest of them.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 4:19:48 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		You're missing mc's point, which is that proper oversight would have prevented this debacle. Having such oversight is not "socialism."

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 4/3/2008 4:29:30 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 4:31:44 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

You're missing mc's point, which is that proper oversight would have prevented this debacle. Having such oversight is not "socialism," either, as cyberdude would insinuate.

cb,
It's not difficult to predict what you did wrong YESTERDAY. I appreciate the lack of oversight and experienced it first hand. While shopping for a home I was pointed to a house twice the size and cost of the one I have now by both the Realtor and the lender. Having a bit of experience in the industry I not only knew I could not afford it, but made sure I wasn't investing in any financial institution who were marketing such fiscally irresponsible loan programs.

However Federal regulation doesn't have the opportunity to do it in such a black & white or pragmatic manner. Many of these lenders were and are the same lenders at the forefront of intercity lending and HUD programs. Cutting them off and regulating their highly leveraged deals would curtail that other lending. Want to see evidence of that; try and qualify for a HUD loan today.

The bottom line is however we got here, considering every "good intent", every PAC payoff, and every constituency served; the bail out bails out the industry. Individuals are an afterthought in putting the political deal together but are the first words out of the politicians mouths when trying to sell this stinking fish to the tax paying public. The majority paying for the corporate bailout didn't participate or benefit from either side of the equation.

Succinctly summerizing...

Regulate all you want going forward.

What does that have to do with the point that anyone supporting this bail out is supporting Corporate welfare?  

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 4:37:52 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


It is true. Stalin's Ukrainian famine, China's Great Leap Forward famine, North Korea's famine of the late 90's....


If this passes for your attempt at historical reasoning, I think you'd best stick to your original dogma of being ahistorical.

Why would you equate war, oppression, mass murder, and revolution with the propriety/effectiveness of US government programs?


(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 4:38:59 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

You're missing mc's point, which is that proper oversight would have prevented this debacle. Having such oversight is not "socialism."


Not really...Because it was the government that told the banks to open the floodgates.

It's called "redlining." Basically the banks back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s drew red lines around neighborhoods and demographics that were considered off limits to mortgages simply because those people were at high risk to not being able to fulfill the obligations of the loan. Well the congress believed this wasnt fair and it prevented the poor from being able to get a piece of the American dream. So they pushed the banks to reverse the redlines. Suddenly everyone qualified for a mortgage. No down payment. No income verification. No documentation. And homeownership in the United States soared from 2002 to 2006. Everyone thought it was the perfect way to recover from September 11th.

Then the bottom fell out....

Suddenly these adjustable rate mortgages reset. People's mortgage payments started to rise. The buying slowed down. And now you got people stuck with horrifying mortgages, depreciating assets, and banks are going under.

Why? Because the government forced these banks to change their lending policies. And some of these brokers found ways to make money in the process of other people's misfortunes.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 4:44:18 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

What does that have to do with the point that anyone supporting this bail out is supporting Corporate welfare?



The bailout, as I understand it, is geared more to propping up the financial system to prevent a run on Banks.

The twist here is that the US Government is interceding with an investment bank (Bear Stearns), which I don't think has ever happened before.

For the most part, I trust the Federal Reserve's judgment in these matters. In the Fed's eyes, letting Bear Stearns fail posed greater consequences to the system as a whole.


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/3/2008 4:49:07 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Bad lending and shuffling off the risks to remote investors was the core problem, not red-lining.

This is mostly, if not entirely a private sector debacle. Gov't malfeasance here was federal inaction and a much too relaxed credit policy.

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 40
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