Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 5:53:52 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		One of the democrat candidate has to give up - right now, Fries McCain is having a laugh, revelling in his relaxed status as lone warrior. Time for Clinton or Obama to throw in the towel so that the final dem candidate can concentrate on winning this f***ing election  .

_____________________________



(in reply to MissSCD)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 6:38:55 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I don't know what your business is Merc but if money isn't circulating because banks are too scared to make loans because they don't know the value of their assets or their assets have shrunk, many small and medium businesses will go to the wall and thousands will lose their jobs. Its alright being a purist but I wonder how purist you would be if your business went bust because of the potential of this crisis was allowed to play out.


MC,
I am a specialized commercial lender serving the property and casualty insurance industry. My business volume is down approximately 25%, availability of funds has been impacted, but cost of funds has dramatically decreased. Bottom line, the bottom line has been better, but its also been worse.

Your correct, my business isn't served by my position not to bail out the industry. I didn't know it was a requirement.

I am against any government welfare corporate or personal regardless if I'm directly affected for a couple of reasons. First, I believe I am capable of managing under a wide range of economic conditions. More important - I'm not a hypocrite. As egocentric as I may be in my personal life, I believe in personal accountability and consequence for actions. I also believe in the value of failure and feel it is an important tool for ultimate success.

The banks and other financial institutions should be allowed to fail if their decisions earned that result. If my business was a casualty of that failure so be it. Its happened before. I had a previous business fail because I didn't anticipate a plane being piloted into my building. When that occurred I didn't use or seek any government bail out. Lessons learned by that failure were difficult, I was stronger coming out the other end. So is the case of the banking industry. The survivors will be stronger and those who created this problem should be allowed to fail.

The government shouldn't be handing out trophies to people finishing last; corporate or individual.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 6:46:55 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I had a previous business fail because I didn't anticipate a plane being piloted into my building.


Hey Mercnbeth, tell me you never owned the Twin Towers?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 6:53:21 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I had a previous business fail because I didn't anticipate a plane being piloted into my building.


Hey Mercnbeth, tell me you never owned the Twin Towers?


LOL - No, a rented office, subleased at that, is not ownership. The possessive verb was, as Senator Clinton would say, "misspoken".

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 7:03:22 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		I hope you didn't lose any friends and colleagues, then.

Reverting to the topic, I'm not sure that I would consider central banks injecting liquidity as "corporate welfare". It's simply a short term fiscal measure to avoid much worse problems down the line.  Equating it with welfare is baffling, as is the tendency to believe that the US is anything other than a mixed economy.  There's isn't a completely capitalist system on the planet, any more than there is a wholly socialist one.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 7:10:43 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Its curious to me, the reaction to Senator Clinton ... because she runs a tough campaign, and is not willing to just give up, when the issue is still in doubt.
 
She feels "entitled," so you say ... what about Senator Obama? Why isn't that same label applied to him?
 
The race is not over ... Senator Obama will have more delegates, but will not have the magic number. Delegates do not represent the will of the people ... there are too many caucus states for that to be clear, and in some causus states, you can basically buy the votes. We all know who has more money.
 
The race is not over ... the party will decide at the convention if they want the candidate with more delegates, or the one that won most of the big states, and nearly all of the states the Democrats have a good shot at in the general election ... the caviat being, the results in the remaining primary states.
 
Like it or not, we are still in the third quarter of this contest, and the game is close. Do you honestly expect the team trailing to just pack up their equipment and give up?

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 7:14:42 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Clinton is unacceptably tough. Being a 'wilfull female' is a massive taboo. That's why she's so despised by the public opinion.

_____________________________



(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 7:18:49 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		I disagree kittin.  My guess is she's disliked because of her undeniable froideur.  Also, when the real dirty politics start, her personal relationships may prove more damaging than Obama's pastor.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 7:25:57 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

I hope you didn't lose any friends and colleagues, then.
Many - enough said.

quote:

Reverting to the topic, I'm not sure that I would consider central banks injecting liquidity as "corporate welfare". It's simply a short term fiscal measure to avoid much worse problems down the line.  Equating it with welfare is baffling, as is the tendency to believe that the US is anything other than a mixed economy.  There's isn't a completely capitalist system on the planet, any more than there is a wholly socialist one.
Couldn't disagree more. It is this expectation of a government nanny savior which has caused the majority of economic problems we are facing.

The terms "socialist" and "capitalist" have become so diluted as to be meaningless. They are currently used only to derail a debate on the facts and turn it into a childish exchange of name calling; similar to the submissive/slave exchanges threads. When a government provided money to "save" a person or an industry it is welfare. It comes with a high price. With individuals it begets entitlement and laziness. With industries it begets entitlement and expectation; and is used in future business plans as a 'worst case' proviso. 

A "short term fiscal measure" is what the personal income tax was called. Any chance of that going away?

What "worse problem"?

Expecting a safety net seems to be a generational thing. Most supporting welfare were never allowed to fail. They want some benevolent nanny government to protect them from the consequences of their decisions and actions. It is a damaging and defeatist philosophy. It is a path for having more and more liberties taken away because with government protection comes government intervention and infringement of the freedom of choice. 

There are and will be increasing government intervention proportional to the government bail out. Usually whoever is going to pay the check picks the restaurant. I'd prefer the personal ability to make that choice and not have a government providing lunch money but insist I go to a PAC connected McDonald's for gourmet dinning.

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 7:28:53 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

I disagree kittin.  My guess is she's disliked because of her undeniable froideur.  Also, when the real dirty politics start, her personal relationships may prove more damaging than Obama's pastor.



You may be right that her personality doesn't help her; but whose politicko's personality was ever that enthralling? I can think of a handful of politicians that move(d) the crowds because of their personal charisma - most have the personalities of gnats. I still think that her gender is playing in her disfavour.

Hopefully, the crap about Rev. Wright is behind us, at the top of the compost heap where it belongs. Maybe, just maybe, the electorate will see these things for what they are: dirty tactics.

PS: her 'personal relationships' are an entirely different matter, one that I know too little about.


< Message edited by kittinSol -- 4/4/2008 7:29:52 AM >

_____________________________



(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 7:40:52 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Kittin, they said the same thing about gender before Thatcher got elected here.  She herself famously said that no woman would lead the country in her lifetime then bingo!  she takes over the party and country within about a year.  (I was too young to vote on that one, sadly...). 

As for the personal stuff, I don't claim inside knowledge of course but if you take a look at some of the political blogs you'll see the rumours floating around which won't exactly enthral the religious right.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 7:48:17 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Its curious to me, the reaction to Senator Clinton ... because she runs a tough campaign, and is not willing to just give up, when the issue is still in doubt.
 
She feels "entitled," so you say ... what about Senator Obama? Why isn't that same label applied to him?

caitlyn,
You are confusing my observation with my opinion.

The OP was an observation of her comments. The question posed, which few answered, was; "do you agree with her?" Twenty-four hours later she's backed away from the "Obama can't win!" quote. However considering her 'Bullets over Bosnia' "misspeak her credibility is dubious; and Governor Richardson says it is an actual representation.

I have no candidate to support in November. I know it can't be Senator McCain. It won't be Senator Obama. I considered for a time Senator Clinton, but damn - she makes it impossible. It has nothing to do with her gendar. It has everything to do with her politics and obvious and verifiable lack of integrity.

My position is that she and her continuing campaign will insure a government/corporate integration at the genetic level over the next four years. Although I believe an Obama presidency will be a disaster; we survived President Carter, we'd survive President Obama.

That's my observation. My opinion is basic. Senator Clinton's campaign has done more to insure a President McCain than anything coming from the RNC. And yes, I feel the basic cause of this is her feeling of entitlement. It came from the very party that now wishes to bury her, not me. Senator Obama may have that same sense of entitlement but, considering the numbers show him impossible to catch by Senator Clinton, his claim is more legitimate.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 7:58:52 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
When a government provided money to "save" a person or an industry it is welfare. It comes with a high price. With individuals it begets entitlement and laziness. With industries it begets entitlement and expectation; and is used in future business plans as a 'worst case' proviso. 


I think the central banks act only when there is a chance of a damaging impact on the economy threatened.  If a recession can be lessened or avoided, it is incumbent on any administration to take such action as they can.  That is not to say that impunity should automatically be afforded to those who make unwise investments - I can see where that principle would only encourage imprudence.  However, central banks are predictable largely - they need to be since the money markets rely strongly on a sense of confidence. 

The problem you, as a free market capitalist, have is that that confidence is native to your system and that deregulation only heightens its effects.  Those on low and middle incomes will bear the brunt of any recession, while the money men wait for the market to bottom out before beginning the whole charade again.

I don't have the in-depth knowledge to outline how this can be avoided but there certainly are safer ways to work, which minimise the risk of recession.

quote:


A "short term fiscal measure" is what the personal income tax was called. Any chance of that going away?


I hope not.  I'm quite partial to motorways, street lighting, policing, schools and other "comforts" of being a "socialist" and want to live among others who share their benefits.


quote:


Expecting a safety net seems to be a generational thing. Most supporting welfare were never allowed to fail. They want some benevolent nanny government to protect them from the consequences of their decisions and actions. It is a damaging and defeatist philosophy. It is a path for having more and more liberties taken away because with government protection comes government intervention and infringement of the freedom of choice.

You know I think that's crazy, so I'll just move on...

quote:


There are and will be increasing government intervention proportional to the government bail out. Usually whoever is going to pay the check picks the restaurant. I'd prefer the personal ability to make that choice and not have a government providing lunch money but insist I go to a PAC connected McDonald's for gourmet dinning.


If you're referring to fiscal policy, I'd concede your point is not entirely unwarranted but if, as I believe, the Fed has a measure of autonomy from government, I wonder what the practical way would be of achieving that measure of control for the electorate?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 8:03:05 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Thatcher was in a league all of her own - paradoxically, she utilised the progressive British electorate to push through her reactionnary agenda. Devious brilliance!

America's a different matter; the forces of reaction here are formidable.

_____________________________



(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 8:12:27 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
I think you mean the FOX GUARDING THE HENHOUSE.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 8:19:34 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Clinton is unacceptably tough. Being a 'wilfull female' is a massive taboo. That's why she's so despised by the public opinion.


Yeah, being a woman she's just a bitch, if she was a man, she'd be a fighter.

But she ain't so she's a bitch.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 8:22:10 AM   
britneyXdresser


Posts: 12
Joined: 6/15/2005
Status: offline 		Does anyone know if she was under sniper fire when she made these comments?

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 8:25:03 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


They are the ultimate result of socialism. USSR == Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. When someone gets orgasmic over socialism, Mao and Stalin is whom they glorify. You may deny this if you wish--the denial will not alter the reality of socialism's bloody consequences.

Obama's only saving grace is that he's too effete and ineffectual to match the accomplishments of a Stalin or a Mao. (Clinton's actually far more dangerous in this regard, because she's just bitchy enough to actually insist on accomplishing something, instead of just talking in circles)


You just don't have any grasp of history or the meaning of socialism, for that matter. Your comparison and reference speaks for itself. Anyone who has studied history knows full well that the "outcomes" are far from predetermined --- hence there can never be any "ultimate outcome" of anything. No, what you have instead is "the way it happened," which in and of itself is always difficult if not impossible to determine.

Bringing Stalin and Mao in the US equation just shows your ignorance. Funny you wouldn't compare the station of James Merideth (an actual American) to an Appalachian White man (your choice) --- for racial discrimination purposes --- but Obama and the democrats can be likened to Stalin and Mao.

What's next, the FAA is a communist front organization out to ruin the AVG American's right to travel by forcing Southwest to ground its planes?


< Message edited by cloudboy -- 4/4/2008 8:28:44 AM >

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 8:29:07 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		That's what happens when indoctrination is substituted for education:  it's not necessary to understand socialism, just to denounce it as evil.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton - 4/4/2008 8:40:37 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

You know I think that's crazy, so I'll just move on...


quote:

I don't have the in-depth knowledge to outline how this can be avoided but there certainly are safer ways to work, which minimise the risk of recession.


Those two statements draw focus on the biggest problem facing the US.

Citing cause and taking positions in opposition with generating more government welfare are dismissed as crazy in an attempt to discount. Few take them for what they are - lack of contrary argument.

The other is the banner cry for every failed social program. "We didn't know" and after the subsequent failure "We had 'good intent'!"

Yup - it speaks to the desire for an all knowing, all caring 'nanny' because we the people don't know, don't have any answers, and would feel better if a government made these decisions for us.

RL - you are by far in the majority. I'm confident that your position will be followed more in the next administration regardless of which political party prevails. The manipulation of masses occurs every day. The PAC's payout to both parties, insuring that no matter who wins the election battle - they win the war. As a result its insured we'll see more government intervention, more government welfare, more government control, more personal liberties gone under the "we didn't know" but we had "good intent" banner cry.

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 80
Page:   <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: "Obama Can't Win"; Hillary Clinton Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094