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"Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 12:05:23 PM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		Okay...I see it more often with "sissies" than anyone else. "it" being those who refer to themselves as weak and worthless. Or even the less overt..."girls." Women who identify as s-types that have to be "taken care of," I'm not talking about just the Daddy/girl type.

I don't understand the appeal. I one is "worthless or weak" what would a D-type want with them to begin with? I mean unless the goal is to have a completely unhealthy so-dependant relationship.
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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 12:08:28 PM   
metamorpha


Posts: 35
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		I used to work with subs like this online in order to help build up their self esteem.  Sissification is little understood in the general community, and I helped men to take pride in their urgings and help them to handle it with grace instead of making mistakes which could easily embarrass them.  What I got out of it, as a Mistress, was the joy in helping someone to mature.

(in reply to BoiJen)
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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 12:09:29 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		He likes me depending on him. It isn't unhealthy because I do get my needs met. He likes taking care of his womenfolk. He also likes a D/lg sort of relationship. We don't do much age play but there's a strong sense of him protecting me, indulging me, and making me feel safe.

No service kink here, just emotional transparency. Not your kink, but it works great for us and has for almost five years.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to BoiJen)
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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 12:13:47 PM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		Hmmm...that's not what I meant. I mean the females who present themselves as "worthless" or "useless" without their...counterpart. No matter who that may or may not be.

(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 12:25:21 PM   
peppermint


Posts: 5169
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline 		I've always wondered about the same thing, BoiJen.  If they aren't worth anything then why would any Dominant want to own them?  A strong submissive on the other hand, has value and brings wealth to the Dominant. 

(in reply to BoiJen)
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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 12:31:02 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		It's some peoples kink to feel inferior and to be treated that way, doesn't mean they really are "worthless" or "inferior".  If thinking they are or being called that puts them in a submissive headspace - who are we to judge that?  Just like women who enjoy their doms calling them sluts - doesn't mean they are sluts, it just means that being in that role, even if only in fantasy, turns them on and pushes their buttons. 

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 12:34:12 PM   
GabrielleSlave


Posts: 616
Joined: 9/20/2007
From: in servitude
Status: offline 		What sense of pride can there possibly be in owning a weak, worthless and useless anything, let alone sub/slave?  Still whatever turns them on....

Gabrielle x

_____________________________

Slave to Master Slayer

~ Host of the Rather Marvelous Greenwich Munch ~

"There is no such thing as liberty. You only change one sort of domination for another. All we can do is to choose our master."
D. H. Lawrence

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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 12:38:40 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I am not allowed to think of myself that way anymore - I spent too many years with that opinion of myself before he met me. 

Why did he want me when I thought of myself that way?  Because he saw what I didn't, and wanted to bring it out because he saw the potential slave he might have in the long run if I was willing to do the work he required of me.

Why would someone want someone who is weak and worthless as their goal of a slave?  We can only speculate.  People want things for various reasons.  Maybe they don't want a "relationship" in the traditional sense you are thinking.  Maybe they want a kind of ownership in which they are looked to for everything.  And maybe that's the perfect place for such a slave.  There are a lot of things I don't understand the appeal of.  It doesn't make me better or worse than those who engage in it.

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to BoiJen)
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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 12:39:00 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		Worthless as a word during play for me is more a part of the humiliation...its a safe one to use on me because i know in my soul its not true...also it depends on whether its used in context of play...worthless slut...etc....
i do talk to some submissive males who take the humiliation thing to entirely new levels...which i try to understand, but really cant quite grasp. It has something to do with the idea that as men they cant be sissies and because they are...there is a lot to work with in the humiliation arena. But for me, humiliation play is only healthy if the person knows what is said and done is not reality for them. Otherwise its self-loathing...in my opinon.
As for the women who "need to be taken care of"...i have often wondered where i line up for that kind of treatment. i mean...if i dont take care of myself who will? Altho in reality i dont know if im wired that way. And i dont know who i would attract if that was a necessity for me. While im learning and exploring D/s, there is a certain level of respect at the core that i dont know can truly exist if i were not inherently able to stand on my own. And i am finding daily that im stronger because of the relationships ive created.

(in reply to metamorpha)
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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 12:43:06 PM   
MsStarlett


Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		I don't see the appeal in those who actually think they are worthless and weak.  Now, that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy calling a man that.  My favorite on-line sub is one of those types who enjoys humiliation.  He is actually a rather powerful man and the head of his department at work.  He's the one who calls the shots, gets all the credit when things go right, catches all the shit when things go wrong.  He's also the task master and the ax man to those who work below him.  I honestly believe that part of the appeal of having me treat him like dirt is that it is a way for him to attone for the distasteful things he does during the day.

(in reply to velvetears)
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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 12:43:39 PM   
softpjOS


Posts: 398
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Okay...I see it more often with "sissies" than anyone else. "it" being those who refer to themselves as weak and worthless. Or even the less overt..."girls." Women who identify as s-types that have to be "taken care of," I'm not talking about just the Daddy/girl type.

I don't understand the appeal. I one is "worthless or weak" what would a D-type want with them to begin with? I mean unless the goal is to have a completely unhealthy so-dependant relationship.


Personally, i don't see this as much of a "sissy trait" as an "i've read far too much erotic nonsense and wish to be nothing more then your 'i have NO limits' slave" trait. 
 
Many of the sissys i've encountered have interest in domestic service and as such do see a "value" in themselves. 
 
Those that do present themselves as "worthless" find themselves hearing (from me) "why would ANYONE want a worthless sub/slave"??  But, to each their own.  Some DO want that timid mousy doormat that can't think/function/shit without a detailed command.  But for the most part, I see those that identify as such as nothing more then people thrusting their fantasy "role" upon people, hoping someone "bites".  No different then those that come into a chat room and "beg" to enter.. umm you're already "IN" the room... yea ok... I get it, you're uber subby and cant type hello without permission.  Nexxxxxxxxxxxtttttttttttt! 
 
 

(in reply to BoiJen)
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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 12:50:22 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Okay...I see it more often with "sissies" than anyone else. "it" being those who refer to themselves as weak and worthless. Or even the less overt..."girls." Women who identify as s-types that have to be "taken care of," I'm not talking about just the Daddy/girl type.

I don't understand the appeal. I one is "worthless or weak" what would a D-type want with them to begin with? I mean unless the goal is to have a completely unhealthy so-dependant relationship.


Realistically, I can asnwer you like this. There are some Dom's who litterally want to control out the natural THOUGHT process of a slave and by doing so the sale believes they are COMPLETELY dependant on the Master for everything .

The Kind of Master/Dom who enjoys this is one who wants a Living Doll. She will Preen and Profess as he wishes her to, she will behave as she is expected, and whe will do as she is told. I have met MANY narsisitic men who fall into this catagory and the one who suffers is the girl because eventually the Dom gets tired of thier toy and seeks a new one and abandons the old one and in this this girl who done't really know how to function without a Master anymore seeks another. It is a Trait that once had is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to break because even if the Master wants them to be more self sufficeint what you end up with is a Doll Prentending to be Self Sufficent because it is what the Master Wants.

I don't care for the behaviour myself I do know many who no matter what they say the want as far as strength is concerned this is what they REALLY want.

A Living Doll is a Toy NOT a Partner. I need someone who will grow with me not be something I mold into whatever I want.

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to BoiJen)
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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 12:50:34 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		~Fast Reply~

I usually see it as a form of dirty talk, something that turns the people involved on. Not my kink but it doesn't need to be.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to softpjOS)
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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 1:04:52 PM   
MusicalBoredom


Posts: 620
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Louisiana/New York
Status: offline 		I pretty much agree with Aquatic.  Two of the people that I have ongoing play as well as social interaction with love to be called "slut" and like to use the term on each other and referring to themselves -- as in "I am such a slut."  This is always in a rather playful tone with a lot of winking and head shaking in mock disgust yet always ends in giggles on their part.  Now I do not consider either of them to be "sluts" from the meaning that I grew up with.  They do not have random sex with random people and would punch some guy in the nose if he was some joe jerkoff at bar calling either of them such.

I think some of the "i'm worthless" is much like that.  Though "worthless" isn't a trait I ever looked for in a person if it works for them then great.  As with "slut" and "worthless" both, I am sure there are people that really see themselves in that light.  For me that is just too much work to have to "fix" someone and their self esteem problems but again if that's your (you not being anyone in particular) thing then go for it.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 1:09:13 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		'Enry 'Iggins complex, wot! A priceless vase starts as a lump of clay and there are going to be some folks who want to take what's worthless and turn it in to something priceless.

I'm sure that every dominant who seeks out the 'weak, useless, worthless' does so for their own reason. Sometimes that reason may be noble, sometimes it will probably be nefarious but it's just as valid as any other submission. It doesn't have to appeal to everyone, it doesn't have to be understood by everyone but it is a fact that such exists so might as well get used to it or just ignore it if it doesn't float your boat.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to BoiJen)
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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 1:20:20 PM   
metalmiss


Posts: 341
Joined: 5/4/2005
From: Croydon, UK
Status: offline 		i've never understood this myself..

my Master takes care of me in many ways.. But in none of that am i ever weak or dependant.. If i was.. If i had even come across that way when He first read my profile there would have been no approach at all.

It all comes down to the point you've made in the OP.. If i have no confidence in myself to the point of claiming myself worthless and weak.. Then why would i be worth Him putting the time in to reach the point of Owning me at all.

Perhaps the aim is, as you say, to find themselves in a completely dependant situation.. Is this type of "submissive" maybe limited to the "doormats" among us? Because surely such a relationship could only bring misery to anybody with half a brain.

Sorry if this was no help but just wanted to give my two-penneth *smiles*


_____________________________

"The longing to serve, to submit, to abandon oneself sexually, emotionally, and physically makes one a slave either to a Man, a Woman or to God. Submission to that passion is divine degradation." - Dorothy C. Hayden

Owned by RavenMuse

(in reply to BoiJen)
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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 1:47:24 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: metalmiss
Because surely such a relationship could only bring misery to anybody with half a brain.


What an insulting thing to say.

While I don't participate in such a relationship, I am confused by what seems to be a theme of animosity against it.  We as a general public really do frown on those who do not meet our own personal standards, don't we? 

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 2:51:22 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		A) most people only talk a sweet talk about wanting strong and smart people.  The minute that comes to the sticking point- then defensiveness, guilt, abandonment, and all those fun tools come around to prove they really just want someone to fall in line and shut up.

B)  Most of us are weak and worthless in some fashion.  Why else do we choose to form relationships with other people if not to create a more fulfilling and stronger unit together?

C) It is a kink.  I get off on humiliation, degradation, objectification and animalization.  There's something inside that burns with a deep undefinable love/hate at being diminished, ignored, put down and shown exactly how pathetic I am.  I choose to enjoy that to my fullest.

Strong people make strong relationships.  Recognizing our weaknesses and worthless parts of our selves is a key part along the journey to become strong in who are fully.  I think time and experience proves well enough who makes their relationships work- and I can name quite a few who embrace weakness as strength.

PS Boi is it just a fetish of yours to approach everything with a "Kinky people do this and it's sucky and they suck too" attitude?  It's how you seem to approach EVERY topic you start.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 4/6/2008 2:52:12 PM >

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 3:03:54 PM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		LA I do that sometimes...it wasn't the goal this time. It came out of a conversation MsK had with me about some of the types of indivduals who petition for Her attention. I appreciate your input and the insight into the actual nature of this "type" of person.

To be specific I'm not talking about kink in particular or play style or choice. But the people who openly advertise that they are "worthless." I don't think that everyone is strong and that "submission is a gift that must be treasured", I also think the "worthless s-type" is the antithesis of that approach. I don't think either are healthy approaches to life and living. For anyone...not just kinky people.

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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 3:12:57 PM   
MladyHathor


Posts: 510
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline 		It works because someone lets it---for every ying there is a yang whether we like it or not.

_____________________________

The Mistress Hathor, always and forever, much to the disdain and discomfort of others.

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