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RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 3:51:22 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Okay...I see it more often with "sissies" than anyone else. "it" being those who refer to themselves as weak and worthless. Or even the less overt..."girls." Women who identify as s-types that have to be "taken care of," I'm not talking about just the Daddy/girl type.

I don't understand the appeal. I one is "worthless or weak" what would a D-type want with them to begin with? I mean unless the goal is to have a completely unhealthy so-dependant relationship.

I get triggered into the 'worthless' 'useless' emotion. H ave to watch it as it is ugly. I walked from the last relationship when I hit that feeling and stated very very clearly I can't do a dynamic that triggers that in me as a way of making the D feel strong.
I also don't get it in male subs....and so many of them, indeed most of them that have inadvertently got me wrong and assumed as a switch I can be domme to men.....most of the male subbies I have encountered have done that useless worthless thing (sorry if that seems a generalisation and you are a male subbie reading this).
It makes me cringe. And I really dislike it when it emerges in my own feelings and behaviour.
Now I can see the function of it: it is supposed to get punishment right? Punishment which is intended to make the sub work harder? perform better? punishment which is just punishment because the uselessness is 'real'/
Awww c'mon there's better ways of getting punished like being just naughty or even, (which gets the best punishment) just plain kicking off.
No; i just don't, won't go into the worthlessness energy....even though the pain of releasing myself in order to keep my head above self-worth often feels like hell.
Self-worth is a richer place to be at the end of the day than any so-called punishment pay-off.

_____________________________

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Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
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To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 21

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 3:55:15 PM

lronitulstahp

Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Okay...I see it more often with "sissies" than anyone else. "it" being those who refer to themselves as weak and worthless. Or even the less overt..."girls." Women who identify as s-types that have to be "taken care of," I'm not talking about just the Daddy/girl type.

I don't understand the appeal. I one is "worthless or weak" what would a D-type want with them to begin with? I mean unless the goal is to have a completely unhealthy so-dependant relationship.

i don't understand it either...but if it works for both D and s in a relationship...that's gravy!
~independent, and single slut

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 22

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 4:01:25 PM

Justme696

Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Okay...I see it more often with "sissies" than anyone else. "it" being those who refer to themselves as weak and worthless. Or even the less overt..."girls." Women who identify as s-types that have to be "taken care of," I'm not talking about just the Daddy/girl type.

I don't understand the appeal. I one is "worthless or weak" what would a D-type want with them to begin with? I mean unless the goal is to have a completely unhealthy so-dependant relationship.

agree fully with you. It is sad people call themselfs weak. Low selfesteem..or just lazy I guess.
And propably no will to work on it. I am not attracted to that kind.

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 4/6/2008 4:02:23 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 23

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 4:22:40 PM

metalmiss

Posts: 341
Joined: 5/4/2005
From: Croydon, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
We as a general public really do frown on those who do not meet our own personal standards, don't we?

Quite often that seems to be the case. It's a sad world that we live in..
Though my comment was my opinion, not an insult.. How it is taken is down to whomever reads it.

To my mind and in my experience having had such an encounter myself in the past with a man part of who's intention was to stop me thinking, that kind of relationship can lead to terrible psychological abuse.. i was lucky. What i said was not without context to me.

_____________________________

"The longing to serve, to submit, to abandon oneself sexually, emotionally, and physically makes one a slave either to a Man, a Woman or to God. Submission to that passion is divine degradation." - Dorothy C. Hayden

Owned by RavenMuse

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 24

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 4:26:11 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

I have no use for anyone who announces him or herself to be"lowly", "worthless", or anything similar. I am not out here to be anyone's therapist---I will work to enhance someone's self-esteem, but I am not going to help a person FIND it in themselves. Why would i waste a second of my time on someone who claims to be worthless from the get-go? What does it say about me as a dominant, if I want a useless, worthless, lowly slave? Don't I deserve the BEST?

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to metalmiss)

Post #: 25

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 4:36:23 PM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
what would a D-type want with them to begin with?

Personaly I wouldn't.... I have recieved a number of such 'intros', taking the "i am worthless" approach... My responce tends to go pretty much along the lines of.... "why would I want something worthless?.... come back when you find something worth My time and effort."

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 26

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 4:38:03 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: metalmiss

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
We as a general public really do frown on those who do not meet our own personal standards, don't we?

Quite often that seems to be the case. It's a sad world that we live in..
Though my comment was my opinion, not an insult.. How it is taken is down to whomever reads it.

You do realize opinions can be insulting, yes?

quote:

To my mind and in my experience having had such an encounter myself in the past with a man part of who's intention was to stop me thinking, that kind of relationship can lead to terrible psychological abuse.. i was lucky.

Indeed you were. I was fortunate to have healed from such an abusive relationship.

quote:

What i said was not without context to me.

Understood. But what you said, "Because surely such a relationship could only bring misery to anybody with half a brain." was in context to "anybody", seeming to imply that "anybody" in such a relationship has less than half a brain. Hence, the part I felt insulting.

I personally was not offended by your words. But it is my opinion that they were insulting.

Thank you for replying to my post, however. I appreciate it.

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to metalmiss)

Post #: 27

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 4:59:42 PM

hopelesslyInvo

Posts: 522
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: the future
Status: offline

i just don't see weak as being synonomous to worthless or useless.

beauty comes in a lot of different packages, some people like fragility and tenderness. being frail could be the reason someone sees something/someone as precious. some people like glass more than metal. /shrug

< Message edited by hopelesslyInvo -- 4/6/2008 5:01:12 PM >

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 28

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 5:09:56 PM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

quote:

It is a Trait that once had is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to break because even if the Master wants them to be more self sufficeint what you end up with is a Doll Prentending to be Self Sufficent because it is what the Master Wants.

No one would mistake me for a doll, but I've spent most my life engaging in this kind of pretense. And, it is a pretense. There's a variety of reasons for it, and some of its designed to keep the wolves at bay. Its not good to let 'em see you sweat, if you know what I mean. But, in large measure, its a matter of being a doormat. And, doormats are the sort of people who do what people want even if what they want is someone who isn't a doormat.

I go to work alot with Master. He's self-employed in construction, and I do step and fetch it kind of stuff. Its one of my favorite things that we do together. I just do what he tells me to the best of my ability. I haven't a clue about his line of work and have no skills to bring and he has to explain everything over and over again. If he needs a hand, I do what I can to help out. All in all, I'm guessing I'm kind of useless and I try to stay out of his way unless he's got me doing something.

I also work as a college instructor. I got the class this semester because my advisor retired and reccommended me to take over his class. After studying under him for close to 10 years, starting out as an absolute newbie in a field I knew nothing about I was pretty useless when I began. I kept my mouth shut, worked hard and followed his every suggestion, even when it was an idle comment just made in passing. It was probably 4 or 5 years before I could even talk to him I was so in awe. I couldn't look him in the eye or even be near him. Basically, I was a doormat, so much so that I avoided him almost completely until I had some good work to show him. And, I'd just hand it in and run away. Doormat is probably an understatement. Uberdoormat is more like it. Or, freak. Now, its like the ultimate honor for him to have reccommended me to teach his course so it worked out ok for me.

Whether I'm with my Master or pursuing my carreer, I do it as a doormat. It works for me. Its who/what I am.

Its a hell of a lot of responsibility for my Master, and certainly makes his job harder. Imagine trying to Master someone who's so awestruck she can barely talk to you. Who's afraid to call you on the phone or initiate contact. Who gets so overwhelmed that even the slightest hint of irritation can scare her into herself for days. I mean, what a pain in the ass that must be. I mean, its not really fun and games bedroom kink and is probably very tedious and frustrating. I suspect very few are up to the task. I can only hope I'm worth it to him.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

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Post #: 29

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 5:14:44 PM

ophelialocke

Posts: 127
Joined: 9/2/2007
Status: offline

Its a great question BoiJen,

I have been guilty of using words like this to describe myself.
When I have done it, it was meant to be some kind of Zen-like attempt to transcend ego limitations by using the worst most negating words possible in the face of the obvious opposite being true... It ended up messing with my head too much, probably because I am not a Zen Master and I didn't know what the fuck I was doing.
I try not to do it anymore.

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 30

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 5:15:31 PM

felicitousdove

Posts: 45
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline

I have a quote on the top of my yahoo 360 blog page:

"Sub/slaves are a reflection of their Dominants.’ So if our Dominants are strong, assertive, decisive, fully capable human beings, why should we as slaves be any different?" ~Dove

I tend to enjoy strong submissives and slaves... I tend to prefer spending time with and getting to know those who serve out of strength, vs. those who serve out of neediness, fear, or worhtlessness....

If one veiws themselves as so worhtless, weak, incidental, and not worthwhile.. why waste time on them. I like people who value themselves.

Just me.

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 31

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 6:04:51 PM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

I don't see it either-but I'm not a masochist.

_____________________________

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I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 32

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 6:06:41 PM

MrThorns

Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Okay...I see it more often with "sissies" than anyone else. "it" being those who refer to themselves as weak and worthless. Or even the less overt..."girls." Women who identify as s-types that have to be "taken care of," I'm not talking about just the Daddy/girl type.

I don't understand the appeal. I one is "worthless or weak" what would a D-type want with them to begin with? I mean unless the goal is to have a completely unhealthy so-dependant relationship.

I have never seen much appeal in that personality type myself. What specifically are they surrendering.. if everything they are is instantly overcome or overpowered? Give me an intelligent, bold, audacious, strong and ballsy woman who chooses to surrender herself to me. There's challenge and passion in that.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 33

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 6:58:21 PM

Noah

Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
...
I don't think either are healthy approaches to life and living. For anyone...not just kinky people.

There are people who are content to live their own lives and there are people who can't or won't resist the urge to prescribe "for anyone".

Now we know where you stand.

If you think you can unerringly divine what an act or a word means to another person, particularly some anonymous other whom you've never met (or a whole category of such people,) and if furthermore you feel you can determine based on these divinations precisely what constitutes healthy living "for anyone," then here's what I think:

I think you've earned all you'll get from the others like you who are so willing to issue negative judgements on the lives of anyone who chooses to follow his or her heart rather than your "for anyone" judgements.

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 34

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 7:02:41 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

"it" being those who refer to themselves as weak and worthless.
I one is "worthless or weak" what would a D-type want with them to begin with?

This is Angel's kink, almost to the letter. He wants to be a worthless, useless baby, kept around solely becasue I love him and not becasue I need him. He knows his uselessness begins and ends in our scene, but that is what he wants out of our interaction.
For some, maybe, the need to be in that position is far more far reaching. They need to be dependant, they cannot function if they are responsible for themselves. Sad as it is, there are quite a few people who truly cannot manage themselves.
I dont know if it is healthy, or if it is just a fantasy gone awry, for everyone wanting to be completely dependant, there is someone somewhere willing and able to let them be dependant.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 35

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 7:11:06 PM

BoiJen

Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline

Again I'm not talking about scenes. I'm talking about ACTUAL every moment everyday self preceptions. Basically, I'm not bashing the kink. I'm asking about the everyday personality.

And Noah...I'm not in the minority, in that I am on of many individuals who believe absolute extremes are not healthy... no matter what it's about. There's a reason I'll someday be "Dr. boi"...Yes, there ARE actual prescribed guidelines (note: not "rules" or a "check list") of what "healthy" is. Otherwise there would not be clinical diagnoises of mental states.

< Message edited by BoiJen -- 4/6/2008 7:12:19 PM >

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Post #: 36

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 7:54:08 PM

junecleaver

Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline

The majority of the people who advertise themselves as worthless on their profiles aren't looking for a relationship, they are looking for a scene so they play the part they want in it. I have never met anyone who outright proclaimed themselves as worthless at munches, socials, and parties. It doesn't seem like a great marketing strategy to me either.

_____________________________

"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 37

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 7:56:05 PM

hopelesslyInvo

Posts: 522
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: the future
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns
I have never seen much appeal in that personality type myself. What specifically are they surrendering.. if everything they are is instantly overcome or overpowered? Give me an intelligent, bold, audacious, strong and ballsy woman who chooses to surrender herself to me. There's challenge and passion in that.

despite my quoting you, i'm really just trying to speak in reply to the thread and all of its contents, this is just part of what i felt like addressing, i hate feeling like i'm trying to single someone out or come off as if i'm calling them out.

but do you expect we would ever say things like give me a stupid, timid, weak, and scared little woman who second guesses herself to dominate me?

intelligence is definitely another word such as worth and use that i don't see a connection with here at all. also "specifically", they are surrendering, even if in your eyes they have nothing else to give besides their "worthless" selves... they are giving the hardest thing to surrender, or maybe in a case like that they are rather "misplacing" it... which is trust. giving yourself and giving control is far easier to give than trust.

whether submissives want to "be used" or "be of use", if someone feels they are of some use then they must also feel they are of some worth, so the people pointing fingers and truly believing they are worthless is pretty obviously not themselves.

and what does "overpowering" have to do with submission in the first place? often times it's almost like there are loads of people looking for people who aren't submissive, to submit to them. should we submissives be annoyingly coy? should we refuse each things that is asked the first 30 times? asking or even notioning is enough for most of us. if i'm with a mistress and she asked for something of me, i'm not going to say "dream on bitch, you're going to have to work for it, what do you think i am? submissive?" i don't play such silly games, if me being submissive isn't what someone wants, i won't care if they try to fault me for it, i wasn't the one looking in the wrong place or trying to make someone into something that they aren't. and neither does being submissive mean you'll serve anyone who boasts they are a dom/me, or that time won't play into the relationship, or why and what you would do for them.

i see dom/mes often enough saying things like "we're the ones who are supposed to be strong, to be supportive, to be the ones in control", why wouldn't the reverse seem logical? that the submissives are "supposed to be" in general more influential, unassertive, reserved, and in general, looked at as being "weak" in some way because of such traits.

i mean the word "subservient" didn't change in it's definition overnight did it? there's not always if even ever "literally" a power exchange, but regardless would you look at someone as being a leech just because they draw motivation and strength from someone else? must we all be so independent that we are without care or concern for a relationship in the first place?

are the words servile and submissive getting mixed together?

people are so often talking about "not denying who you are and to accept it". so what if someone is shy, self conscious, passive, reserved, fallible, meek, kind, and maybe they don't even have high self esteem. they're supposed to accept who they are but for some reason be under belief and accept "that what they are" is worthless? they should just admire from afar and just keep dreaming of being happy? i know what they don't need is people trying to further beat this into their heads.

isn't there a difference between low self esteem and being insecure? a difference between being impressionable and faceless? a difference between being frail and being emotionally unstable? a difference in physical and mental "strength" and a difference for the uses of them? a difference between the power to act and the fortitude to endure? a difference between motivation and desperation? a difference between being vulnerable and being weak?

is it really so terrible for a submissive to live up to their name?

< Message edited by hopelesslyInvo -- 4/6/2008 8:44:12 PM >

(in reply to MrThorns)

Post #: 38

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 7:57:45 PM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

People who advertize them selves as weak and worthless only equate to one thing in my view.

vampiric.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to hopelesslyInvo)

Post #: 39

RE: "Weak/useless/worthless submission" - 4/6/2008 7:58:10 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

It is an interesting topic. I fully admit that this fits into the description of MKINYK. (It seems silly to Me thar for an acronym the *not* part wouldn't be spelled out.)

No, I see nothing appealing about anyone who approaches Me with the "I'm a lowly worm" frame of mind. If they think nothing of themselves, why would I want them? What would the point be in having someone who is of no worth? That's not what I seek out in all other areas of My life. Why should I chose it for this?

One thing that came up through the course of this thread was that this trend is much more noticeable in male, rather than female submissives. I've found it much more common for the female submissive to be strong, confident in her inner abilities, than her male counterparts. It is much more about a conscious decision, rather than a fate.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 40

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