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RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 10:12:55 AM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline

SimplyMichael,

Oh, I disagree that people who have gone through hell shouldn't try to play their traumas out in a safe, protected BDSM play scene. I know from personal experience that at times (not always) going through something similar, but being "in control" of the action that caused that trauma in the first place can be a good step toward dealing with the real life hurt, and the feelings of being violated.

This kind of play is NOT something to be taken lightly. It requires a hell of a lot more than the usual negotiation, communication and precautions. But, I think that BDSM can and does help people work out their problems.

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 21

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 10:26:42 AM

Gemini1766

Posts: 991
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline

I'm going to agree with Michael in his original assessment for the most part.
I'm going to add to that, that I believe bipolarber has a point. The thing is, revisiting abusive situations is a very touchy issue. The level of trust required for it is enormous! The psyche of the person trying to move past the issue and grow and move forward in their life must be very strong. You try something like that with a fragile psyche and you are asking for major problems.

To each their own.
Gem

_____________________________

"Strangers do not owe strangers anything, beyond an obeisance to the laws mutual conduct as dictated by the land in which they live. Anything else is negotiable." puella

"TwistedKinkerBell's online male companion of a nearly intimate nature."

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 22

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 10:30:58 AM

misbehavin

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/18/2005
From: Rubberboot, Alberta, Ca.
Status: offline

For you...Poetryinpain.....because i soooo agree!!

Michael...words of wisdom!! Thank you!!
mis
The true test of character is not how much we know how to do, but how we behave when we don't know what to do. John Holt

(in reply to Poetryinpain)

Post #: 23

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 10:58:11 AM

junecleaver

Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Abuse isn't healthy

If you feel abused, whatever is going on, isn't for you. If it makes you happy, it MIGHT be good for you. For example, taking pain meds to deal with genuine pain is good, taking them to dull your senses isn't.

So, if a spanking feels abusive, makes you doubt yourself, it isn't right for you. If having your mistress squat over your face and use you for a toilet makes the rest of your day bright and shiny, go for it.

If your master makes you suck off strangers and you end up feeling less of a person, it isn't healthy for you, if it makes you feel like a glorious sex goddess/slut/whore whatever and there is a spring in your step, go for it.

If being abandoned in a corner makes you doubt his love, it isn't good for you, if it makes you happy the next day that your sexual manipulation doesn't work on this amazing strong man, go for it.

If his emotionless style makes you feel empty and worthless, leave him, if it gives you structure and you do better at work, run with it.

Being a submissive isn't about being pushed down, even if someone is pushing you down, it is about playing with things, unusual things, that at the end of the day make you feel lifted up, fulfilled, and in short fucking happy as all hell.

(The next line is blatently stolen from CreativeDominant)

It shouldn't make you go to bed night after night praying that it will get better tomorrow

I agree with what I think you are trying to say...sort of. Except I would say that like everything else that should be done in moderation....'too much' abuse is unhealthy.

There is room for more than just 'This makes me feel good' and 'This makes me feel bad.' to base your decisions off of. Kinky stuff doesn't affect me in only one of two ways like 'good' or 'bad.' The intensity that it can bring could never be describe with black and white terms. I like feeling abused...literally taken advantage of and mistreated...turns me on, etc. It doesn't make me happy, it makes me feel abused. And I don't know how or why or even what about abusive situations does it for me. It's like burning yourself to scratch an itch. If I had to put some value judgment on it...I would guess positive because it's almost always brought on a lot of adrenaline and amazing sexual experiences.

But I also know when to duck out and I think that's a vital part of something being non-destructive. I've used RL abusive situations to get my rocks off and then left the situation. Even though there's not really a way to word it succintly it would fall under the list you've created.

_____________________________

"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 24

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 11:26:43 AM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline

I have read this Thread and I now am concerned about how easy it is to convince yourself that what you are doing is "Supposed to make you feel This (XXXX) Way"

There HAS to be a reason.

Michael and I don't always agree but I think we would be at the same Public Awareness booth working on this issue if they ever made one.

It is the SUBTLE differences that CHANGE this world. The A to MY is a BIG one. I agree with that Michael going for being A SLUT to MY SLUT can change WORLDS and honestly in the beginning I never saw the relevence of it.

I think another thing that every Newbie should be told is:

Make your OWN Path, Don't just Emulate a Book or a Erotic Story because the fantasy rarely lives up to the reality. If it Walks like a Dom, Talks like a Dom, and looks like a Dom, You still have no idea if it IS one until you know that is works for YOU.

We do this for SELF Gratification.

Okay I know there will be MANY Disagreements on this but Follow along for a moment.

I slave/sub wants to make thier Master happy by being a good girl or doing what is expected or ordered. The Gratification they get comes when they know they have pleased thier Master by doing as they have been told. EVEN IF THEY DON'T LIKE WHAT THEY DO They STILL do it out of the Gratification.

In a Private Forum I belong to we talk about "Fun" and if it isn't FUN why do it?

Some people take this kind of relationship to a serious enough level that they can say "I do this because it is WHO I am. I know no other way." Which is FINE But do you ENJOY what you are doing? If not, then why do you keep doing it? And if you could find a better way to do it one that allowed you to be WHO you were and HAPPY too would you do that then?

Sure my wife and I have issues from time to time. Nearly 100% of the time it is MY fault because I am not willing to readdress the situation to turn a negative into a positive. Recently a good frined gave me some great advice and even though things aren't the way I wanted them to begin with at least now I am HAPPY and so Fuck what I wanted before THIS FEELS BETTER!!

If you want to know happyness then start with what makes you happy.

Thank you for this WONDERFUL Thread, Michael.

Stee;

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to junecleaver)

Post #: 25

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 12:13:28 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: junecleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Abuse isn't healthy

If you feel abused, whatever is going on, isn't for you. If it makes you happy, it MIGHT be good for you. For example, taking pain meds to deal with genuine pain is good, taking them to dull your senses isn't.

So, if a spanking feels abusive, makes you doubt yourself, it isn't right for you. If having your mistress squat over your face and use you for a toilet makes the rest of your day bright and shiny, go for it.

If your master makes you suck off strangers and you end up feeling less of a person, it isn't healthy for you, if it makes you feel like a glorious sex goddess/slut/whore whatever and there is a spring in your step, go for it.

If being abandoned in a corner makes you doubt his love, it isn't good for you, if it makes you happy the next day that your sexual manipulation doesn't work on this amazing strong man, go for it.

If his emotionless style makes you feel empty and worthless, leave him, if it gives you structure and you do better at work, run with it.

Being a submissive isn't about being pushed down, even if someone is pushing you down, it is about playing with things, unusual things, that at the end of the day make you feel lifted up, fulfilled, and in short fucking happy as all hell.

(The next line is blatently stolen from CreativeDominant)

It shouldn't make you go to bed night after night praying that it will get better tomorrow

I agree with what I think you are trying to say...sort of. Except I would say that like everything else that should be done in moderation....'too much' abuse is unhealthy.

There is room for more than just 'This makes me feel good' and 'This makes me feel bad.' to base your decisions off of. Kinky stuff doesn't affect me in only one of two ways like 'good' or 'bad.' The intensity that it can bring could never be describe with black and white terms. I like feeling abused...literally taken advantage of and mistreated...turns me on, etc. It doesn't make me happy, it makes me feel abused. And I don't know how or why or even what about abusive situations does it for me. It's like burning yourself to scratch an itch. If I had to put some value judgment on it...I would guess positive because it's almost always brought on a lot of adrenaline and amazing sexual experiences.

But I also know when to duck out and I think that's a vital part of something being non-destructive. I've used RL abusive situations to get my rocks off and then left the situation. Even though there's not really a way to word it succintly it would fall under the list you've created.

Thief!!!!!

Seriously though...you bring up a good point. Which is why I posted the line you stole...to go to bed crying and/or praying tomorrow will be better is to be expected occasionally when you are an adult. I have had those times when the day just did...not...go...well. You all know the day I speak of: the one where you said something in jest to your submissive and wound up hurting her feelings, the clients(patients) were none pleased with what you did the last time you saw them, your um is whining about one thing and you offer advice and end up whining her up more. THOSE days.
Every relationship has its ups and its downs but I still think it comes down to the OVERALLness aspect of it...if the relationship is no longer fun/healthy/growing-encouraging of growth/fulfilling and those nights that you go to bed praying that it will get better tomorrow are coming around more and more frequently and you realize that the work being done is mainly by you, it is probably time to begin asking yourself "why am I here any longer?"

(in reply to junecleaver)

Post #: 26

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 3:00:37 PM

hejira92

Posts: 2272
Joined: 10/27/2005
From: Palm Beach County, Fl
Status: offline

Michael,

Thank you for this thread. (Do I feel a breath of fresh air?). Well-thought out, intelligent, calm and a serious look into WIITWD.

Overall, I think you have laid out some real common sense for everybody. The trick is to recognize the line between feeling "good" abuse and bad. It takes a lot of introspection and self-knowledge- sometimes more than people have. As you said about your own experiences, it is a process.

I think that my relationship with my first Master (who did some serious slave training with me) may have turned into abuse down the road because, in trying to please him, I denied myself. The happiness I felt in obeisance and the first flush of sub-frenzy could very well have led me down an unhealthy path.

So, although I thought I was happy... well, there are gray areas. A newbie might feel happy in the joy of discovery and link that with the person they are with. Severing ties with the person you feel you owe your self-discovery can be difficult indeed.

I have also used this lifestyle to explore and exorcise some of my history of abuse. I think that this type of thing shouldn't be done lightly, without much trust and preparation. But the experience for me was freeing and wonderful.

We play on the razor's edge of abuse and misuse. Wouldn't the world be a nice place if we were all considerate, competant adults? Or if we all even tried to be? So, for the newbies- Caveat Emptor.

_____________________________

Property of Cuffkinks

Member:
The Pimpettes
MoGa's IN-Crowd

"You're the gleam in my eye, the smile on my face and the bulge in my pants" - Cuffkinks

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 27

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 3:16:38 PM

Maya2001

Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline

This is a fantastic post and added comments from BoiJen also valid though one should really and know their partner well before attempting.

My opinion is this post should be pinned near the top of the forum page so that all newcomers would have a chance to read so they understand what they should expect from an relationship and to know whether it is healthy for them of not could save a lot of people a lot of grief

_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 28

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 3:50:33 PM

atursvcMaam

Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

I find it disheartening that these things have to be said to adults. Shouldn't there be a test or something before we turn people loose into the world??

Cali

it probably would not help, have you seen some of the people that "they" allow to have licenses?

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 29

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 3:52:41 PM

atursvcMaam

Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline

Nice post, and well written, but i agree with some that those who need it most won't read or pay attention.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 30

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 4:03:07 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

Thank you, Maya.

Intimate Partner Abuse (AKA: Domestic Violence), whether on a first date or after years of marriage and whether in a BD/SM relationship or a vanilla one, is something that everyone should be aware of and know how to deal with. In fact, i think it should be taught in high school, if it isn't already.

BTW, i like your tagline very much and i would love to use it, if that's ok.

joy
Owned servant of Master David

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maya2001

This is a fantastic post and added comments from BoiJen also valid though one should really and know their partner well before attempting.

My opinion is this post should be pinned near the top of the forum page so that all newcomers would have a chance to read so they understand what they should expect from an relationship and to know whether it is healthy for them of not could save a lot of people a lot of grief

(in reply to Maya2001)

Post #: 31

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 4:04:22 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

SimplyMichael,

Oh, I disagree that people who have gone through hell shouldn't try to play their traumas out in a safe, protected BDSM play scene.

This kind of play is NOT something to be taken lightly. It requires a hell of a lot more than the usual negotiation, communication and precautions. But, I think that BDSM can and does help people work out their problems.

This thread was directed at creating some solid universal advice to give to those new to the scene, not as some sort of universal rule for everyone regardless of their level of skill. I think you would agree that those new to the scene should not use bdsm as therapy and instead hire an actual professional therapist.

We may or may not agree with the following but I strongly believe that for dealing with any sort of serious issues, even if you are using bdsm as therapy, it shouldn't be your only therapy and a real professional therapist should be somewhere in the process.

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 32

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 4:20:35 PM

BossyShoeBitch

Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maya2001
My opinion is this post should be pinned near the top of the forum page so that all newcomers would have a chance to read so they understand what they should expect from an relationship and to know whether it is healthy for them of not could save a lot of people a lot of grief

I couldn't agree more...

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to Maya2001)

Post #: 33

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 4:29:22 PM

sblady

Posts: 433
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline

As a novice to D/s BDSM, I think this is a wonderful post. Although I'm definititely old enough and "experienced" enough in the non D/s sense, sub-frenzy and lack of knowledge about this lifestyle can make you forget to use common sense or trust your gut instincts.

Thanks again for such a wonderful job!!!

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 34

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 4:32:13 PM

RedAnhedonia

Posts: 50
Joined: 3/26/2008
Status: offline

Being a Newbie, and a Sub, I find this type of post helpful because it is sometimes difficult to weed out the abusers from the actual Doms, especially online.

Just certain conversations I have had with so-called men claiming to be Doms have left me feeling like I need to take a shower. Or that because I am new, I need to immediately be collared with some chap half way around the world, whom I've no idea who/what/why they are. As if without proper tutilage from an experienced Dom I cannot decide what I like, or don't like. I am still learning... but I don't believe anyone can make those decisions for me.

Perhaps, a little too out spoken for a Sub... but just because I like giving in sometimes, doesn't mean I like giving in all of the time.

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

Post #: 35

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 4:34:16 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Abuse isn't healthy

If you feel abused, whatever is going on, isn't for you. If it makes you happy, it MIGHT be good for you. For example, taking pain meds to deal with genuine pain is good, taking them to dull your senses isn't.

So, if a spanking feels abusive, makes you doubt yourself, it isn't right for you. If having your mistress squat over your face and use you for a toilet makes the rest of your day bright and shiny, go for it.

If your master makes you suck off strangers and you end up feeling less of a person, it isn't healthy for you, if it makes you feel like a glorious sex goddess/slut/whore whatever and there is a spring in your step, go for it.

If being abandoned in a corner makes you doubt his love, it isn't good for you, if it makes you happy the next day that your sexual manipulation doesn't work on this amazing strong man, go for it.

If his emotionless style makes you feel empty and worthless, leave him, if it gives you structure and you do better at work, run with it.

Being a submissive isn't about being pushed down, even if someone is pushing you down, it is about playing with things, unusual things, that at the end of the day make you feel lifted up, fulfilled, and in short fucking happy as all hell.

(The next line is blatently stolen from CreativeDominant)

It shouldn't make you go to bed night after night praying that it will get better tomorrow

I'll send you his telephone number by PM: you can text it to him?
Actually: excellent advice.
But seriously: if, like me, you are an emotional masochist, the problem is that the dividing line betweem what is good and bad, is blurred. Or rather what is good and bad crosses over. And at times? What is bad is good and what is good is bad,
That's very clear. Getting the dividing line back has proven almost impossible for me.
And more often or not I end up wishing it would continue even though it is destroying me.
WOW Thanks for that Michael.....

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 36

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 4:36:44 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

My Dear BossyShoeBitch,

I love you, even if you are deliciously biased but thank you! There is a LOT of advice given here that should be pinned to the top. Hey, YOU are a Top, aren't you...perhaps we could pin it all on you!!!!LONG sharp pins. Hmmm, but you hate needles, PERFECT, bend over honey.

Seriously though, if I had found a place like CM when I was a brand new idiot, it wouldn't have taken me over a decade to get to where I am now. But then again I wouldn't have met you...So, the good of the many over the good of the few? Okay, I am glad I struggled but nobody else should have to.

I just want to thank all the amazing people who make CM such a wonderful place to be, this really is a very special forum. The combination of reasonable and civil discussion (at times thanks to the ever vicious and efficient mod 11), the intelligence, experience, and skill of the posters, combined with the never ending flow of idiocy and stupidity for use to comment on really makes this a great place.

< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 4/7/2008 4:39:22 PM >

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

Post #: 37

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 5:18:57 PM

MistressMichael

Posts: 1
Joined: 3/28/2008
Status: offline

You would hope someone can tell the difference. My current submissive is having that issue. His previous Mistress was cruel and made him feel like a dog. His Mistress was his wife.............she was cruel in the vanilla world and told him that he was a freak because of his BDSM feelings.

I am different. I am loving yet firm. He actually told me that he didn't deserve someone being kind to him.

How does one recover from menatl and verbal abuse??

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 38

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 5:20:43 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

Michael

I completely agree with your OP.

It is why I see my relationships as a Power Enhancement Relationship Dynamic with Authority Transfer. The power is about the person as much as it is about the person. Abusive relationships do not enhance power... they use it up!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 39

RE: What every newbie should be told - 4/7/2008 5:29:36 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressMichael

My current submissive is having that issue. His previous Mistress was cruel and made him feel like a dog.

Many wonderful dominants are cruel and making people be dogs is enjoyed by many.

quote:

His Mistress was his wife.............she was cruel in the vanilla world and told him that he was a freak because of his BDSM feelings.

A common but sad occurance.

quote:

I am different. I am loving yet firm. He actually told me that he didn't deserve someone being kind to him.

Glad you two enjoy that dynamic and find it fullfilling for you.

quote:

How does one recover from mental and verbal abuse??

Therapy is the best route, here is a list of kink aware therapists who can work by phone with anyone, anywhere in the world. http://www.ncsfreedom.org/kap

(in reply to MistressMichael)

Post #: 40

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