~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (Full Version)

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SteelofUtah -> ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 12:16:28 PM)

And usually only from ourselves.

They say that the Heart mends all wounds, they fail to tell you it causes all the wounds it mends.

I am not trying to Rant perse, rather I am trying to paint a picture so that those in this Beautiful world of Sweet Decadent Pain and Maddening Happiness can see what happens to OTHERS when they start to make the world pay for others sins.

I know that Men and Women can be cruel and that at times when caught up into the moment we can all make bad decisions and allow ourselves to get carried away in a Fantasy and wind up in a very self destructive reality.

Once Bitten, Twice Shy seems to apply to the D/s world rather blanket like. I myself give my world to a submissive who pretended to fit the bill and as soon as I was invested turned the tables and I felt trapped. There was a time in which no woman could get close enough to me to do that again and as a side affect I had a slew of relationships that only went so far then dies, I would continually ask "Why, does it only go so far and then go down hill?" The answer is I kept everyone so far away that eventually they saw it as a losing battle and just gave up.

I see this a LOT here.

We discuss getting to know each other first. I find this a laugh because how well can you get to know someone behind a computer screen? Some would say quite well and I would agree but only if both parties are being honest and true. If one of the party is lying then someone is getting to know an Image and not the real McCoy.

So I am an Advocate of Meeting. Ahhhh now here is the Catch 22. I like Zero Pressure so I am Myself but not demanding or controling or Puffy Chested "You will Obey Me" Bullshit. I am nice and far from demanding because in all reality I have NO right to demand anything. In this calm demeanor I treat the other party as a human being not chattle and because of all the fears that the other person has built up or for whatever reason they seek reasons NOT to move forward and because I am not demanding enough or Dominanting because I am trying to offer a stress free boundry I am told they just don't feel submissive toward me. Now I just got this recently but it isn't the first nor will it be the last time I get this. How do I know this?

Because instead of boundries some people put up Barricades. They are designed to keep people away, they are designed to tell someone they are unwelcome and unwanted and being Human as I am there are only so many I am willing to face before I just say "Fuck it" this isn't worth the effort. I feel I am putting SO MUCH IN, My time, my energy, my willingness to adapt and yet I find I get little in return and eventualy, I, the one who wants to show them I am worth thier time, feel like I am wasting my own. I feel it is unnecessary and unwarrented so I back off, stop writting as many e-mails, and eventually disappear.

Now there are times I will hear from other parties who will inform me I left them hanging. That I am the BAD guy becase I stopped trying to break down barricade after barricade and just gave up and somehow this action makes me a player or fake to some people. Truth be told I would love to have been with ANY ONE OF THEM had they simply let me in.

Now some of you reading my profile will see that I am married and my wife is my slave, the above comments are from a decade of situations. Most recently my wife and I have been seeking a second girl and it has been hard and trecherous at best, but the same problems remain the same.

I'm really not seeking someone to trust me to the hilt in a matter of weeks or even months, but at some point you have to take a step forward. I can say that after three weeks you are not going to learn much different about the person you are talking to on a personal level, in that you will have decided if you are enjoying thier company or not anything beyond that is just stalling in my opinion.

The barricades are up and strong however when you have been hurt so it takes more patience and more time. The question is how long should one be expected to jump thorugh the emotional mine field that can be the irrational fears of a once bitten twice shy submissive.

I wonder how long those on collar me are willing to stick around and deal with someones barricades knowing that they are all based on irrational fears that someone else caused with in them?

What do you think?

Steel



colouredin -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 12:28:25 PM)

Speaking as someone with LOTS of masks barriers walls and all that I know how the other person feels. Each time someone breaks your trust you add another layer of plaster to the walls, you force yourself to demand more the next time at least for a while. I personally can get superficially attached to someone very quickly, emotionally however not so much. I may like them but never as much as I convince myself that i do, I keep them away to prevent harm which in turn prevents anyone from getting close to me.

Sure its hard to break down the walls, course it is thats the point isnt it? The theory being that anyone who likes you that much will make the effort to do so. I dont even know if mine are able to be cracked through no one has not since I was 15 not really. I may get upset and angry at the end of a relationship but more at myself for getting into it in the first place, for being nieave enough to believe that this time it may be differant but also hating myself that I know I didnt really give it much of a chance, sure i may care for them, look after them all that jazz but I havent let myself really feel it which must make a differance. All the emotions I express are mostly about self loathing, I behave in a way I think I am meant to behave, its hollow and not real. And then I set about building more walls and more barriars for the next time, becoming a bit more cynical and a bit more cautious. The interesting thing is that along with that I am desperate to feel wanted and needed and to want someone, isnt that funny?

D/s for me is a way of getting rid of some of the barriars, some that have been created by other situations that have made it harder for me to trust, not only relationships but friendships and abusive situations and how I grew up. Its a way of allowing myself to be more vulnerable in a way that I normally wont let myself but in a way that I crave, it provides a healthy outlet and a guilt free honesty, you cant keep the masks up forever and on occasion you can feel them start to crumble. They havent totally yet but there have been occasions.

Gosh that was fairly honest, now I sound like a crazy person. Sorry guys.



spinninsweetness -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 12:40:05 PM)

~I've spent my life hiding behind a barrier, my self-consciousness and looks. It would take someone a long time to break them down- a long, long time for me to trust someone enough to know me.

I'm accused of being a fake and similar because the idea of someone knowing me terrifies me- me who's never had any kind of relationship. I've taken to ending conversations abruptly because they start demanding more of me than I'm willing to give- I can't trust!

My one and only meeting of someone from the BDSM world ended badly, so here I hide!




canupleaseme -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 12:42:07 PM)

Steel

I think everyone comes with some kind of "barricade", our life experiences good or bad can make us react differently in situations especially when it comes to meeting people for relationships.

Personally I was a very tough nut to crack and luckily for me my boy saw the potential and took the time to get through all my barriers.  It was 6 months of being friends online and real time before we moved into a relationship.

I don't think you can put a time line on your question " how long should one be expected to jump thorugh the emotional mine field that can be the irrational fears of a once bitten twice shy submissive" If your right for each other whats the rush?  I am glad my boy spent a long time helping me work through and acknowledge my barriers I am feeling lot healthier emotionally now.  If someone just won't let you in at all I think its a subtle way of saying that they don't think it will work or its just a bad match.

I hope I understood your post [&:]



SteelofUtah -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 12:55:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: canupleaseme

I don't think you can put a time line on your question " how long should one be expected to jump thorugh the emotional mine field that can be the irrational fears of a once bitten twice shy submissive" If your right for each other whats the rush?  I am glad my boy spent a long time helping me work through and acknowledge my barriers I am feeling lot healthier emotionally now.  If someone just won't let you in at all I think its a subtle way of saying that they don't think it will work or its just a bad match.

I hope I understood your post [&:]



Now see there in lies the mystery. I think I am right for them and they are right for me and they don't know and aren't willing to give it any serious thought. How long should I dance around the elephant in the living room before walking away? And then after everything is said and done you end up looking like the bad guy because after 6 months you stopped trying so hard because you weren't getting anything in return and so you left to find somewhere you were wanted.

I am not talking about the "Brain Dead" boys who just can't take a hint I mean they aren't willing to commit to wanting you but the don't want you to walk away either. 6 months is a FINE timeline and something I am even willing to do. It doesn't have to be sexual or kink involved, I just want to know where I stand, is there a future or isn't there and if there isn't than just say so, but if ther IS a future then WHY not work TOWARD it?

Something has to give and I am willing to knock down wall after wall but when it is obvious I am No closer to the place "I"  want to be how long can you expect me to stick around before I say

"Fine I know where I am not welcome or wanted."

My Frustration comes in the fact that these people say they want someone who sees them as a person so you see them as a person and then they just find excuses why not to let you in.

I have been told I was perfect for someone and that it would just never work in the same breath. I am not willing to stick around to be emotionally played with so that someone else can keep thier irrational walls up.

Steel




canupleaseme -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 1:08:51 PM)

I agree with you about being emotionally played.   I guess what I was trying to say was as in my situation I realised eventually that adam really was interested and really did like me and want to be with me and that if I wanted my life to get better I needed to make an effort to let my guards down.  My thoughts were that if after a certain amount of trying they still didn't let you in then that was the sign to say not right here.  This isn't something that I am saying is your fault or anything just that maybe they are just fooling themselves and won't let anyone in. 

In the past with dating and coming up against other peoples barriers ive given it a few months at the most sometimes a lot less before I've walked away and thought fuck it.  I wouldn't expect anyone to stick around me if I was being like that, but then I have already learnt that sometimes you have to just let your guard down and take a chance.



colouredin -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 1:12:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
I have been told I was perfect for someone and that it would just never work in the same breath. I am not willing to stick around to be emotionally played with so that someone else can keep thier irrational walls up.


If you walk through a door and are instantly punched in the face, then you do it again and the same happens, and then again it happens again, maybe you duck? maybe you swerve? Maybe you avoid the door all together. Its not irrational if its based on past experiance. Its self protection, it may not be fair on you that you are being tarred with that brush, but you shouldnt simply dissmiss that person its actually RATIONAL to them that they do that they may not have any other frame of referance.



SteelofUtah -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 1:52:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
I have been told I was perfect for someone and that it would just never work in the same breath. I am not willing to stick around to be emotionally played with so that someone else can keep thier irrational walls up.


If you walk through a door and are instantly punched in the face, then you do it again and the same happens, and then again it happens again, maybe you duck? maybe you swerve? Maybe you avoid the door all together. Its not irrational if its based on past experiance. Its self protection, it may not be fair on you that you are being tarred with that brush, but you shouldnt simply dissmiss that person its actually RATIONAL to them that they do that they may not have any other frame of referance.


Not quite colour,

They have never walked Through MY door sure they have walked through some doors and were punched in the face but can you go around being afraid of all doors just because SOME of them had something nasty behind them?

Yes being afraid of Relationships because the ones that you had ended badly is irrational. Because you have not had a relationship with ME because of this how can you know for certain it will end bad unless it is YOU who is INTENTIONALLY making it bad?

The only way to be sure something will happen is if you make sure it does by causing it.

An Effect MUST have a cause and if the only variable that never changes in the equasion is YOU then that MUST be where the problem originates.

NO I am NOT saying that you ASK to be treated poorly, just that you CHOOSE people who end up treating you poorly. Change the guys you do choose and you change the possible outcome. keep choosing the same kinds of guys keep getting punched in the face.

I just feel if people gave the people who tried so hard a chance they might get pleasantly surprised.

Steel



colouredin -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 1:57:26 PM)

So maybe thats true, then dont you start questioning your judgement? whens it right, whens it wrong? Trust me I blame myself (as i said in my pervious post) many people before have said the same thing, if it keeps happening take responsability. Thats fine, doesnt do much for breaking down the barriars though because surely then you believe that you pick the cocks, so therefore all relationships will fail, therefore keep the barriars up so you dont get hurt. Im trying instead to NOT totally blame myself for all of it rather find the specific elements that I go wrong in, and seriously comments like that dont help, and really i wouldnt have expected you to make it.

Im sorry but I would find it very hard to blindly go into a relationship without the doubts, and thats unfair I know, but I like to think that if any of it is worth it then the other person will persevere and if they manage to do that imagine how close the bond would be? it like so many differant topics, you dont instatly trust or respect people thats built, some people it takes longer, if the person is interested in you they will take the time, is there a rush? You are always talking about relationships being forever.

Also its not all one way, do you know how hard it is for people with that many barriars to give ANYTHING, just because you feel you are working doesnt mean the other isnt, its like your other post about whos putting more in, just because yours may seem like more doesnt mean it is, its relative to the person and how hard they find it. Someone may be terrified of hugs so for them hugging you would be a huge effort.



SteelofUtah -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 2:09:37 PM)

And I get that colour the point here however is that I have a Break away point where I will give and give and give and do whatever someone needs but after so long and not seeing it go where you want it to go well you know what I pull up anchor and sail away.

A relatinship is a risk it is the time we put in seeing if we want to make it someting serious.

I personally hopd up my guard for so long then when they show me they don't want to hurt me I run in full force. Sure they are still able to hurt me be everyone is able to hurt you this person is telling you that they don't want to, so I find it is worth the risk.

I don't know, I am just tired of putting my heart out there to have it ignored or worse to be told it is pretty but just not wanted by them.

Steel



colouredin -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 2:11:35 PM)

Do you think that maybe you do it too fast? I dunno just from the themes of some of your posts. I mean if you are looking for a third too its a hard thing, they may well require even more work and chasing, you know that.

We all have a break off point of course, its up to you to decide how much emotional abuse you can tolerate or how much you can go without feeling you are getting anything back. There has to be a point in which you say, right it ends here, only you can choose that. Thing is if it gets to the stage that it really hurts maybe its not worth it anyways. It may be that you have to accept some of your own advice on this one in that maybe its the type of people you pick. Maybe you shouldnt throw your heart out so quickly, and maybe half of the trouble is compataibilty anyways.



ResidentSadist -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 2:15:57 PM)

It's 90 days and out in my house.  If it isn't 100% in 90 days, then someone didn't want it bad enough to make it right. 



metalmiss -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 2:21:58 PM)

As a girl who is finding herself kneeling before her Master and having some slight internal issues with breaking down the barriers she so carefully contructed to protect herself, i did find this quite interesting to read. i have myself lived, hidden behind the many masks, faces and barriers that at the time i felt made me safe. When as i now know all i was doing was hurting those that really cared.

Letting go of the insecurities and defensiveness that bad experiences have left me with has so far been a reasonably painful experience, but well worth it.
i can see clearly as the layers are peeled away just what problems they have been causing not only for myself but for others around me. Unfortunately it is as they say, hindsight is always in 20-20 vision..
The important thing for me is that i have learned from it.

Sitting behind a computer screen gives a person the advantage of being able to present you, easily, with the mask/face that they want you to see. A person with barriers brought on by baggage and bad experience will naturally be reluctant to give that up in favor of a simple, honest, face to face meeting (a step i have never personally had a problem taking).

You are right, as time passes and the barriers break down with more contact things take a turn for the worst, without the barriers the person feels almost naked, vulnerable.. This leads to the relationship ending.. In essence the person's pessimism stemming from their insecurities & baggage turns them into a self fulfilling prophecy and it breaks down.. Leaving behind it another level of insecurity and more baggage.
A hard cycle to break.

Not sure what to suggest though.. i know when i have encountered this kind of problem i only really gave it a couple of weeks, a month tops to do the "get to know you" routine online, before i worked out that their insecurities really had the better of them and i moved on to look elsewhere.



sweetNsmartBBW -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 2:22:53 PM)

I wanted to jump in on this one, as it's something I have had reason to give much thought to lately.  I think, in many ways, that the barricades are not only intended to keep others out- but, at least in my case, ourselves ~in~.  Do I have a hard time trusting?  Yes, I do.  And I feel that, given my history, it's justified.  But, the person I have the hardest time trusting is myself.  My judgement has been so skewed, so many times, how do I let myself believe in another person?  It gets to a point where it's no longer really about them, but about me.  I fully understand that each person I meet is an individual- and that we are starting out with a clean slate.  But, on some level, there's the knowledge that the only thing all my other encounters had in common was ~me~.  If my ability to make good relationship decisions in the past was so flawed- if I was that bad a judge of character, how can I expect it to be different this time around?

Just thoughts I have been musing over lately...     



sassysexygirl -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 2:28:47 PM)

greetings E/everyone
greetings Master Steel

*smiles at You*  You are not alone.  there are many many folks out there who feel just as You do.  i had been looking for a Master for over 2 years, and that is an average time i have found through reading the forums.  there are some that meet and have lived happily ever after only one month , but still others are still looking after 2-3-4-5 years.   this topic actually has been discussed several times in the Poly Section.

and believe me, during the 2+ years, i talked with lots of Doms, and met several of them, and none of them worked.  and notice the talked with lots/met several.  right there with ya Master Steel.

especially as You now seek a 2nd.  they are hard to come bye ..... first You must find someone who isn't into playing games or a wannabe.  then she must be willing to be poly.  then she must be willing to be second to a wife/slave (and believe me, as the 2nd to a wife it's got some hard issues to deal with).  then You must find a girl that two folks like, not just one .....

ack!  i digress.  for myself, i stayed and tried until it was obvious it wasn't going to work.  there wasn't really a time limit so-to-speak.  when it got to the point i thought He had just too many issues, or was a liar, or false, or not right for me, or demanded too much too soon, or wouldn't meet, or or or ......... that's when i cut it off.  some had been days, some had been months.  but until i was sure, i gave the benefit of the doubt.

i got hurt over and over and over again.  but, i'm a perpetual optimist, and try to give trust to all.  this time, with Master Sky, so far so yummE good.

i hope this addressed what You were searching for Master Steel.

well wishes,
gemmie

P.S.  i tend to run away from a Man when i get close.  Master Sky and i have discussed this and the few times i did it ,,,,, He worked through it with me.  He has a lot of patience.  however, i am not yet collared.  if i beg His collar and He accepts me, i don't think He'll be so forgiving if i try to run [;)]



SteelofUtah -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 2:39:07 PM)

Am I moving too fast?

This is a question I have asked MANY times. Each time I come up with the same answer.

I don't think I am. I see relationships as the time you get to know each other ina real time situation. I know all the things I NEED to know about a person in the first conversation because I ask the questions I want to know.

If there is a connection then great lets see where it goes. But Friendship is always at the center of the equasion, I want them to be my friend and more not just more. I see it like if you are only a friend you will always ONLY be a friend but if you are going to me more we got to learn how to be friends and more all at the same time because in my opinion a relationship is really a courtship, and a courtship is the time you spend figuring out if the two of you are compatable. In Otherwords it is the Building Phase, once that phase has been established you are no longer courting you are an Item or a couple. The relationship in my opinion is just a period of time you are trying each other on for size.

I KNOW THAT THIS IS NOT EVERYONES VIEW!!!!! But it is mine and so to answer the question am I moving to fast? No, I'm just not willing to stand still and do nothing at all.

Steel



kallisto -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 2:40:09 PM)

For someone that has put up barricades all her life, it's finally a relief when you realize you are letting them down.   It has taken me up until recently (the last 10 years or so) to finally be able to say I don't have the barriades up anymore.   They were my protection against getting hurt.   At least that's what I thought.  Really they were my protection against me.   One day I realized the only thing they were doing was keeping me from being happy.    We can go our whole life and never experience life to the fullest and I don't want to be one of those people.   Don't misunderstand.   I've been to hell and back and figure I can do again and again if need be, but I'm going on my terms with my eyes open.  

I've always been the type of person to be very upfront and honest and I've always expected the same.   But now I see it that you can either accept me or not   If you don't, then that's your loss, not mine.   I've not always looked at it that way.   

It almost doesn't make sense, but to me when a person submits to themself, sees themselves naked, vulnerable, capable of making mistakes, failing, getting hurt, and being able to rebound and keep on going, then the barriers begin to come down.   And they can then open themselves up to others. 



colouredin -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 2:45:29 PM)

So where my confusion is, when you are saying these people have picked the wrong people thats why they are hurting and therefore its their fault, the same rule doesnt apply to you? that maybe the reason that you arent successful is because of the people you pick?



SteelofUtah -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 2:58:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

So where my confusion is, when you are saying these people have picked the wrong people thats why they are hurting and therefore its their fault, the same rule doesnt apply to you? that maybe the reason that you arent successful is because of the people you pick?


It's all fun and games till you get your ass handed to you.

That was painful.

Sure maybe it is and if that is the case then I need to stop looking because I give EVERYONE a Shot, I am willing to get to knwo anyone who is willing toget to know us, I am just not willing to stand still while someone sniffs around us to see if we are worth thier effort.

I don't do that to other people so I don't want it done to me.

Steel



subtee -> RE: ~~Barricades~~ The walls we build to protect ourselves (4/9/2008 4:00:24 PM)

~FR

I know you only a little, but I venture to say that you are indeed a genuine soul, Steel. Any woman wanting proof should be directed to your posts here--to read each and every one.

I am a reticent person (in fact, I've changed my mind about admitting that here about 17 times). I haven't the first clue how to change that and I'm not a little girl.



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