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RE: What does a Mistress see in it all? - 4/12/2008 9:33:10 PM   
TermsConditions


Posts: 446
Joined: 11/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aidan

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
Remember, subs don't often get to orgasm; it's their pleasure that's more subtle or metaphorical; a real sub 'gets off' on being praised and serving well. 


*shakes her head*  I just caught this line.  If submissives aren't supposed to orgasm--?  I've clearly been doing it wrong all these years. 


Haha, I agree. I do get off on being a good li'l boy, no doubts, but that doesn't mean I don't like to ejaculate!

Chastity is an aqcuired taste, but one I don't like to develop if I don't have to. ;-p



I second what aiden says (again, dammit.) I get off on a lot of things.  Number one on the list: getting off. Skinner showed random reward was the most effective motivator. 

_____________________________

TnC
Married, Novice Subbish-Type Person
and rider of the Drama Llama.

(in reply to aidan)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: What does a Mistress see in it all? - 4/14/2008 5:14:58 AM   
selena123


Posts: 62
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline 		Aakashha, again, I'm with you. I don't like weak either, however I love the power aspect. My slave is big, built , strong and sexy. That gives me an extra turn on to command someone who is so powerful in the vanilla world. I know my desire stems from a lack of power in my upbringing. The stronger the man is the greater my enjoyment when I enslave him.
selena

(in reply to SephandElena)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: What does a Mistress see in it all? - 4/14/2008 5:55:24 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkashaI also don't arbitrarily love commands - the surrender has to be there.  For example, if I said to Eddie, "Kneel and crawl over to me," and he said, "YES MISTRESS!" and flopped to the ground and hurriedly scurried over, head down, and buried his face into my feet and slobbered all over them, I'd be unimpressed.  If I said to Teddy, on the other hand, "Kneel and crawl to me," and he looked at me for a second, looked at the floor, pondered his fate, took a breath, then slowly lowered himself to the floor, one knee first, then two...then slowly placed his body forward so his palms were to the floor, and took a deep breath of consideration before beginning to slowly, carefully, almost poetically moving his body toward me, eyes up and fixed on me looking for a reaction, shoulders lowered every so slightly, perhaps biting his bottom lip in nervous anticipation....well, I'd be quite aroused and entertained.

<snip>

I don't like "pathetic" (unless I put him there, deliberately, and he hung onto that last shred of pride with desperation) and I don't like weak.


I write to add another datapoint.

It seems you respond to SM more strongly than to Ds. To want to see some discomfort or vulnerability is fair enough. However, a submissive who submits without showing discomfort, vulnerability, or struggle is not necessarily weak, and a domme who enjoys such submission is not necessarily enjoying that that is weak or pathetic. You likely did not intend to suggest as such. Nonetheless, I write to make the clarification for the sake of completeness in discussion.

Submission is part of my romantic and relationship expression. With a woman to whom I am attracted and we have reached the appropriate moment, I do not need to go through a make-me-submit-to-you phase and I will comply to a command to kneel; she has claimed whatever level of submission with a corresponding level of attraction. In a setting where an awkward situation due to someone walking in through the door, as you suggest in the second scenario, is not an issue, I can see myself readily responding to an instruction given to kneel and crawl without struggle or hesitation. Perhaps when I was still coming to terms with submission I might have hesitated but I would not feel hesitation now. For me, this act is an expression of dominance and submission, which I enjoy.

I can understand the point about wishing for some type of a challenge. For me, the challenge in this scenario is similar to the social challenge that exists in general romantic or sexual relationships where each person has selected the other due to mutual attraction, and it is known that the attraction was earned and cannot be taken for granted.

Perhaps there are activities that do require a struggle or a breaking-down, which is a function of the activity and the extent of the relationship. These activities have their own merit.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 4/14/2008 6:41:57 AM >

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: What does a Mistress see in it all? - 4/14/2008 6:12:48 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
While I know it is not all-emcompassing, sometimes I think it's interesting and enlightening to divide female domination into two categories: Active and Passive.  Neither is better than the other.


<snip>

Wherever I get the most energy and enthusiasm is where I get the most pleasure.


While I agree that there can be a distinction made between the two types of activities, I don't think passive and active are the right terms. I recognize that the distinction is accompanied by a clarification that neither type is better than the other, however, I think these terms can subconsciously create such a difference especially because passive can suggest a lack of participation. To me, the distinction between the activities is more along the lines of SM and Ds. I recognize that a given activity can achieve both SM and Ds and the two are not mutually exclusive.

Incidentally, I think each SM and Ds, and in each role, can be done passively and actively. One can provide or receive service passively or actively. One can flog or be flogged passively or actively. I think how much one's participation is passive or active is determined by how much one is contributing energy and enthusiasm to the energy exchange versus going through the motions without really being present.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 4/14/2008 6:51:01 AM >

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: What does a Mistress see in it all? - 4/14/2008 7:11:01 AM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
However, a submissive who submits without showing discomfort, vulnerability, or struggle is not necessarily weak, and a domme who enjoys such submission is not necessarily enjoying that that is weak or pathetic.


I agree in general, although I believe all submissives show vulnerability, no matter how willingly or eagerly they bare their throats to me.  But no, there's nothing "pathetic" in my eyes about willing, passionate, loving submission.  I don't need a lot of ambivalence-play, I suppose?  Or in general I regard it as a stage, like training a spirited animal; I wouldn't want a man who has to be broken every day.  That would get real old real quick.

quote:

That said, I think each SM and Ds, and in each role, can be done passively and actively. One can provide or receive service passively or actively. One can flog or be flogged passively or actively. I think the distinction between whether one's participation is passive or active is whether one is contributing energy and enthusiasm to the energy exchange versus going through the motions without really being present.


Again, I understand your point, but the fact remains that receiving a massage, no matter how appreciatively you moan and sigh with pleasure, is essentially a passive act.  Tying a man up and flogging him to a fine rosy glow is much more active--it just plain old burns more calories and requires more effort.

As Akasha points out, there are also some emotional components to this for some of us.  When I'm dealing with a stranger, or a person I'm not close to, I am easily capable of topping actively, with physical acts that are requested and enjoyed.  Whereas letting someone into my own personal and psychological space to receive certain kinds of service is harder, if not impossible, with someone I do not love.



_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: What does a Mistress see in it all? - 4/14/2008 7:30:17 AM   
AtlantaMistress


Posts: 276
Joined: 6/14/2007
Status: offline 		Such a good post, and many good responses.

For me - I do get off on the power trip. I do not, however, take on the "bitch" act so to speak. I am very sensual. I love to tease a man, to make him want me, to have him do absolutely anything to please me - whether it be service, allowing me to tie him to a cross, or make a puppy out of him. It is not sexual - in that I don't have to be physically attracted to the man. It is an ego trip...maybe for that little girl inside who grew up insecure not feeling so pretty, to totally get off on the fact that now men could desire me so much they would do things that would surely put them out, or even things they would never normally consider doing. I am intelligent, and have always liked "being the boss" telling others what to do. Domination -having a man vulnerable, under mental control even more than physical, is like a drug for me. I literally feel high after a great session.

I am always off limits to all but one of my boys - the one I am going to spend my life with. All I have ever wanted from him is to absolutely adore me - and for that, I fulfill every one of his fantasies. Somehow - doing the things I know get him hot totally make me wet! I actually feel power within that relationship though as well...knowing I am his "dream girl" and that he feels lucky to have found me. he has had to deal with me relishing in other men wanting me, and learning to TRUST that I would never give myself to another - regardless how handsome or rich or attractive the offers have been. That wasn't easy, and takes time.  It is very different with him. It is funny though...he tells me often what a dichotomy I am...so sweet...yet so evil


_____________________________

Mistress Sandy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'd rather be hated for something I am than loved for something I am not.


(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: What does a Mistress see in it all? - 4/14/2008 8:25:58 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
Again, I understand your point, but the fact remains that receiving a massage, no matter how appreciatively you moan and sigh with pleasure, is essentially a passive act.  Tying a man up and flogging him to a fine rosy glow is much more active--it just plain old burns more calories and requires more effort.


I recognize that the word passive has potential to be used interchangeably with the state when one receives an activity. In this thread, when I use the word passive, I use it to define a state of not contributing to the activity with even mental or spiritual energy, and not a state of receiving an activity.

I think defining receiving a massage as passive dominance and flogging as active dominance defines the metric for being passive or active to be physical activity. I think much of BDSM, especially Ds, spans mental activity. I think using physical activity as the metric for being active or passive leaves little room to describe how one is actively participating with respect to mental activities.

Massage therapists will negatively speak of some clients that are energy drains. And I can speak of service scenarios that were uninteresting to me because of passive participation by the service recipient, and scenarios that boosted my want to serve. So I think it is possible to receive service passively without contributing energy, and I do indeed use the term passive dominance. Furthermore, I use it to describe a scenario that has negative connotation. Perhaps this usage and the potential for negative connotation is one reason I find the terms passive and active to not suitably distinguish between SM and Ds activities.

Just as I believe in passive or active dominance, I believe in passive or active submission. Over time I have heard comments about how a given domme did not enjoy flogging a sub, and found it to be an energy drain. Yet, the same domme might enjoy flogging a different sub. Attraction aside, I think what makes the experience with the two subs different is how much or not they were present and participating, and feeding what makes the activity enjoyable for the domme even though they were at the receiving end of an activity.

I suppose I am seeing what might be uninteresting to Aakasha about the sub in her example who readily crawls. To her, the scenario constitutes what is passive submission based on lack of responses that make the scenario enjoyable for her. Similarly, there are responses or a presence that makes service either enjoyable or not for me. The specific details may vary about what I see to make for passive or active participation. I think the essence of it, however, is similar; active participation includes a presence and energy that is returned to the partner in exchange for energy given. This energy may come via specific deliberate responses or acts, or it may simply be felt via intangibles or subconscious responses.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 4/14/2008 8:27:50 AM >

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: What does a Mistress see in it all? - 4/14/2008 8:57:51 AM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
I recognize that the word passive has potential to be used interchangeably with the state when one receives an activity. In this thread, when I use the word passive, I use it to define a state of not contributing to the activity with even mental or spiritual energy, and not a state of receiving an activity.


In this context I think it should probably be taken as a given that no one enjoys playing with someone who just lies there like a corpse, or who supplies no energy to their partner.

Or, if they do like that sort of thing, they're probably seeking partners on another website. 


_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: What does a Mistress see in it all? - 4/14/2008 9:15:01 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
Or, if they do like that sort of thing, they're probably seeking partners on another website. 



(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: What does a Mistress see in it all? - 4/14/2008 9:17:03 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
Remember, subs don't often get to orgasm; it's their pleasure that's more subtle or metaphorical; a real sub 'gets off' on being praised and serving well. 


*shakes her head*  I just caught this line.  If submissives aren't supposed to orgasm--?  I've clearly been doing it wrong all these years. 


NOW they tell me........  sheesh!  Well I'm not turning in my tiara at this stage of the game!

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: What does a Mistress see in it all? - 4/14/2008 10:53:07 AM   
mmayhem


Posts: 6
Joined: 10/19/2005
Status: offline 		Yes the power aspect, my boy, submissive, partner, chuckle... I know so many names for one person... He is 6 ft tall, I'm 6 inches shorter and he can pick me up effortlessly (I love that). He can kneel at my feet look up at me and effortlessly pick me up and carry me. That I have the power to torment him, restrict and control his orgasms, and all the other little devious things I can think of for him, very simply touches something deep in side of me.

(in reply to selena123)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: What does a Mistress see in it all? - 4/14/2008 11:08:21 AM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
NOW they tell me........  sheesh!  Well I'm not turning in my tiara at this stage of the game!


This is what we get for not reading the manual.

In my defense, it was in Swedish and the pictures seemed more informative....

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: What does a Mistress see in it all? - 4/19/2008 6:24:33 PM   
Tantriqu


Posts: 2026
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		Quote:
ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
Remember, subs don't often get to orgasm; it's their pleasure that's more subtle or metaphorical; a real sub 'gets off' on being praised and serving well. 

The key word is often; they know the ratio of Mine:theirs is usually 7:1, and before someone asks, no, I don't notch the bedpost, bathtub clawfoot, coffee table, etc. 

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: What does a Mistress see in it all? - 4/19/2008 9:52:37 PM   
MZJULIA


Posts: 5
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline 		For Me it isnt all about the power factor more  the exploration of it all.....finding out My abilities and desires with someone willing to explore those possibilities, and seeing the enjoyment it brings to both.

                                                                                                                                                                           MZ.JXXX

(in reply to SephandElena)
Profile   Post #: 54
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