RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (Full Version)

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MissSepphora1 -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 2:26:54 PM)

are you french?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

So it's okay to murder indiscriminantly, but it's not okay to torture someone to get information that might save millions of lives?

Where in the hell is the logic in this?



Nope, as stated, nobody will disagree with it, it is useful politic.

Please be so kind as to enumerate the indiscriminant murder (and who it was performed by) and the discriminate torture (and who it was performed by) and how that logicic is appliant here, vis a vis; eye-for-eye or any other generally understood principle.  

Ron




theundertow -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 2:31:38 PM)

edit: nevermind




MissSepphora1 -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 2:32:03 PM)

Where to begin????

The creation of the Jewish state in the Middle East displaced thousands of Palestinians.  This created a rift in the countries that were created after World War II.  Some of the countries wanted the Palis, including Lebanon and Jordan.  Some didn't, including Saudi Arabia.
The Palis in Lebanon created a civil war, where the Muslims decided to gang up on the Christians.  What else did they have to do but get the Christians out of Lebanon, who had been there for centuries?
Well, that was one of the first terrorist attacks on the US by a Muslim group.  When Hezbullah attacked and killed hundreds of Marines who went in to Lebanon to protect the Christians.
How sad.  If Reagan had kicked ass and taken names back then, Al Qaeda may never have been created.
And yes, they are out there.  They are not a boogey man.




mnottertail -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 2:34:52 PM)

Pfffffffffffffff! non.

De Gaulle

why do you ask?





SugarMyChurro -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 2:35:11 PM)

I can't have this conversation. I think your brain is separated from reality.

My apologies.

[8|]




MissSepphora1 -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 2:38:19 PM)

LMAO.

Umhmmm...

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

I can't have this conversation. I think your brain is separated from reality.

My apologies.

[8|]




Smith117 -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 2:50:54 PM)

Down with torture. Let's give all of the suspects rooms at the marriot. So what if they might have critical intel we need? What's a few more American cities lost? Might help us with our population problem, right?

[8|]




SugarMyChurro -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 2:53:59 PM)

I just don't live in fear like that. It's no way to live your life nor is it a sound basis for policy decisions.





Smith117 -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 3:00:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

I just don't live in fear like that. It's no way to live your life nor is it a sound basis for policy decisions.


I don't live in fear either. You might think it's not a sound basis for policy decisions, but neither is public opinion about something as lame as "water boarding" when the enemy is of the type to post a live decapitation on youtube.

Yes, let's treat them with kid gloves while they snatch up whomever and post youtube videos of their brutal, trial-less executions.




farglebargle -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 3:06:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

As far as the International Criminal Court...that has problems...the United States (as well as Israel and most of the mid-east) are not members. The US Senate in fact voted unanimously NO to the Rome treaty several years ago on fears the ICC would try to overrule the US Supreme Court in future cases. So there is a jurisdiction problem here.
Another problem is the US has immunity. And the reason why is because the United States threatened to withdrawl troops from Kosovo and pull military support out of NATO. The Europeans didnt want that to happen so they agreed to make the US immune from the court.

This is the letter that the United States sent to the ICC back in 2001:
"This is to inform you, in connection with the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court adopted on July 17, 1998, that the United States does not intend to become a party to the treaty. Accordingly, the United States has no legal obligations arising from its signature on December 31, 2000. The United States requests that its intention not to become a party, as expressed in this letter, be reflected in the depositary's status lists relating to this treaty."
 
Other big nations such as Russia and China also refuse to be part of the court. So it's backed by Europe, Africa, and 3rd world country. So it doesnt have much power.



Torture is a crime against US Law. The US Courts have all the jurisdiction they need. What they *do* need is some US Attorneys who aren't hand-picked religious crazies who will do their duty.





MissSepphora1 -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 3:06:22 PM)

I don't live in fear either.  But I do lock my doors at night.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

I just don't live in fear like that. It's no way to live your life nor is it a sound basis for policy decisions.






farglebargle -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 3:08:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

Down with torture. Let's give all of the suspects rooms at the marriot. So what if they might have critical intel we need? What's a few more American cities lost? Might help us with our population problem, right?

[8|]




Go read the Constitution. It explicitly specifies all the legitimately delegated authority the US Government has.

And you will NOT see "Torturing Prisoners". In fact, the explicit protection of Due Process and Equal Protection is clear evidence the Government is acting in an extra-judicial manner.





Smith117 -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 3:10:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

Down with torture. Let's give all of the suspects rooms at the marriot. So what if they might have critical intel we need? What's a few more American cities lost? Might help us with our population problem, right?

[8|]




Go read the Constitution. It explicitly specifies all the legitimately delegated authority the US Government has.

And you will NOT see "Torturing Prisoners". In fact, the explicit protection of Due Process and Equal Protection is clear evidence the Government is acting in an extra-judicial manner.




I think that section needs a lil revising, or else that will be this country's downfall in this conflict. I foresee one city after another falling because we are powerless to get the intel we need to stop it.




kittinSol -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 3:11:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

are you french?



Ouais. Pourquoi? T'as un problème?




farglebargle -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 3:12:57 PM)

So, amend the constitution FIRST, and then do it.

OR, go sit in jail for 20 years for torturing a prisoner in your custody. That's what really gets me... The TORTURERS haven't surrendered themselves to authority for their crimes.

Some "Honor", eh? Fucking pussies is more like it....





Smith117 -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 3:16:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

So, amend the constitution FIRST, and then do it.

OR, go sit in jail for 20 years for torturing a prisoner in your custody. That's what really gets me... The TORTURERS haven't surrendered themselves to authority for their crimes.

Some "Honor", eh? Fucking pussies is more like it....


You never cease in making me laugh, if only by your absurdity. "Amend the consitution first" you say in one statement....."ohhhh look how they're eroding our beloved constitution" you cry in another.

Which is it? Amend the constitution or work around it? Which do you prefer?




farglebargle -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 3:19:24 PM)

quote:

You never cease in making me laugh, if only by your absurdity. "Amend the consitution first" you say in one statement....."ohhhh look how they're eroding our beloved constitution" you cry in another.


What's absurd about it? On one hand I'm decrying those who CHOOSE to violate the Law and their oaths, and on the other I'm admitting that it's *possible* for the Torturers to get legal authority, that there's a well defined process, and that they must either follow that process, OR go to prison for their CHOICE to not follow that process.





Smith117 -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 3:20:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

You never cease in making me laugh, if only by your absurdity. "Amend the consitution first" you say in one statement....."ohhhh look how they're eroding our beloved constitution" you cry in another.


What's absurd about it? On one hand I'm decrying those who CHOOSE to violate the Law and their oaths, and on the other I'm admitting that it's *possible* for the Torturers to get legal authority, that there's a well defined process, and that they must either follow that process, OR go to prison for their CHOICE to not follow that process.




And when they *do* follow that process, they catch hell for "taking away our liberties." They just can't win with you can they?




farglebargle -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 3:24:37 PM)

Oh, I get it. You're making up both the preliminary conditions ( that they Torturers are successful at amending the constitution ) and my reaction to the hypothetical event.

You can set the hypothetical conditions of the scenario just fine, but you failed miserably in predicting my response.




Smith117 -> RE: War Criminals: In Our Names! (4/11/2008 3:44:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Oh, I get it. You're making up both the preliminary conditions ( that they Torturers are successful at amending the constitution ) and my reaction to the hypothetical event.

You can set the hypothetical conditions of the scenario just fine, but you failed miserably in predicting my response.


Sure I did. All I hear daily is about how "they need to do more to protect us" (from one group) and "they can't do that! it's against our constitution!" (from the other group).

The Gov can't win with its people and as a result, we are a target.




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