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How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/8/2005 3:19:08 PM

MaestroBill

Posts: 1
Joined: 9/6/2005
Status: offline

Hi ya 'all

This must be among the classic challenges that we (me as a Dom) face. After all, we all want to share mutually pleasing feelings. The spanker and the spankee, for example, crave "good" and "better" feelings.

So here's my dilemma: How can I find out what my Sub really likes, to get her flying, without her topping from the bottom??

I would appreciate anyone who can share FROM RL EXPERIECE (not theoretical stuff) what subtle or straightforward comunication "methods" work.

MaestroBill

< Message edited by MaestroBill -- 10/8/2005 3:33:51 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/8/2005 3:30:04 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Usually I find that if I do something to her, and she gets wet, it means she's excited by it.

(in reply to MaestroBill)

Post #: 2

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/8/2005 3:30:33 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

So here's my dilemma: How can I find out what my Sub really likes, to get her flying, without her topping from the bottom??

Why not just ask her what she really likes and what gets her flying? I don't see how her answers could be considered topping from the bottom unless she stipulates that those are the only things you are allowed to do and when to do them.

edited to say thank you for the font change

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 10/8/2005 3:37:26 PM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to MaestroBill)

Post #: 3

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/8/2005 3:34:36 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaestroBill

How can I find out what my Sub really likes, to get her flying, without her topping from the bottom??

Oh God, I hate how over used the statement "Topping from the bottom" is. I firmly believe that both sides have a right to be happy in the relationship, so why is it topping from the bottom for a submissive to tell a Dominant what they like? If you're asking for imput then it is not topping from the bottom. A submissive making demands on how play progresses or manipluating the situation would be topping from the bottom.

Honestly, my view, is that is what the negotiation time is for. I was very honest with Master before we ever played about what puts me into space and what will instantly take me out. Sit down and talk it out. I wouldn't suggest having that talk in the middle of a scene.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to MaestroBill)

Post #: 4

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/8/2005 3:56:31 PM

obis

Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
Oh God, I hate how over used the statement "Topping from the bottom" is. I firmly believe that both sides have a right to be happy in the relationship, so why is it topping from the bottom for a submissive to tell a Dominant what they like? If you're asking for imput then it is not topping from the bottom. A submissive making demands on how play progresses or manipluating the situation would be topping from the bottom.

Agreed, I've never understood why "topping from the bottom" is so frequently used in situations where the bottom is just expressing an opinion or desire. Though if you ALWAYS do everything she "requests", then I suppose she may begin to see requests as demands.

I just ask my pet what she likes while we're in the moment, and also she knows to to tell me in conversation afterwards (or in an email if it is too embarassing) if there is something she'd like to do differently. When she says she wants something, my response is always "I understand what you're asking for". That way she knows that I heard and understand, but she knows it is my choice as to when/how I will ever do it to her.

I'd guess that 3/4 of the time, I'll do it, but just a little differently than she asked/expected -- that way either she gets something new/better than she expected, or she gets insanely frustrated as I ALMOST do what she wanted :) Some things I just file away in my mind for use in the future when she's been good and deserves a reward (or I'm feeling unimaginitive :P).

I do consciously make sure not to comply with her requests TOO frequently or precisely, if that's the kind of information you're looking for.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 5

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/8/2005 4:02:22 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

well it usually helps if you simply ASK HER! Now if you do it or not... well that is really up to you... guess you need to consider what is Topping from the bottom.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaestroBill

Hi ya 'all

This must be among the classic challenges that we (me as a Dom) face. After all, we all want to share mutually pleasing feelings. The spanker and the spankee, for example, crave "good" and "better" feelings.

So here's my dilemma: How can I find out what my Sub really likes, to get her flying, without her topping from the bottom??

I would appreciate anyone who can share FROM RL EXPERIECE (not theoretical stuff) what subtle or straightforward comunication "methods" work.

MaestroBill

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MaestroBill)

Post #: 6

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/8/2005 4:37:52 PM

RainGod

Posts: 230
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Hendersonville, NC
Status: offline

quote:

So here's my dilemma: How can I find out what my Sub really likes, to get her flying, without her topping from the bottom??

Sigh. I am gonna side with the majority of My Peers here on this one. I see no connection between having her tell you what excites her most and "topping from the bottom". I have no idea where that term came from, but I am kinda like bobbi on that one.... I think the guy who coined the phrase should be marooned on Mars. lol.

On a serious note, how else will you knopw her deepest, darkest fantasies? Do you care? I would. Of course, if you see her telling you what she needs as "topping from the bottom" you likely won't have to worry long. she will remain silent, you will remain without a clue, and she will likely get bored.

Talk, Man! Communicate! Listen, for god's sake! Only she can give you the keys to her highest passion... but you may need to ask what they are.

_____________________________

Love is a razor & I walk the line on that silver blade... slept in the dust with His daughter her eyes red with the slaughter of innocence... The evil that men do lives on & on.
~ Iron Maiden

(in reply to MaestroBill)

Post #: 7

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/8/2005 4:45:58 PM

minx01

Posts: 22
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Usually I find that if I do something to her, and she gets wet, it means she's excited by it.

and the other way around..

minx

(in reply to RainGod)

Post #: 8

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/8/2005 5:00:43 PM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

Geez, give her an opportunity to tell you what she likes/dislikes. Like others have mentioned, watch her body and how it responds to certain things. The way she moves. Moans. Let her have an opportunity to tell you she likes certain sensation play harder or softer. If she feels like she can't tell you without you going all "you are topping me", you aren't going to get very far.

(in reply to minx01)

Post #: 9

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/9/2005 1:03:51 AM

SadistDave

Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Well, since there have been so many responses to this saying to communicate, theres really no point in me saying it again, but I will...

COMMUNICATE

However, if you are afraid that your Domly virtues would be threatened by the phrase "So what does it for ya Babe?", then you could always try the obvious alternatives.

-Ask her to fill out a BDSM checklist.
-Ask her to keep a journal of her fantasies and dreams for you to read.
-Experimentation and observation.
-Sneak a peek at her computer for photos and stories. Oh, and don't forget the web browser history!
-Find out what sites she frequents and read her forum posts. Little prases like "Shibari? YUMMY!" or "Dolcett art really turns me on!" are pretty good clues.
-Plan an information gathering scene. An interrogation scene would be a straightforward approach. You could also do a simple scene having her masturbate while you talk dirty to her and observe her reactions to different suggestions as she gets herself off.

Food for thought...
-SD-

< Message edited by SadistDave -- 10/9/2005 1:04:56 AM >

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 10

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/9/2005 3:34:34 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

Ah yes, the TFTB "boogie man"....

To me, TFTB isn't a problem if you're talking about the occasional act of defiance or brattiness. Indeed, it's both an opportunity for me to pull the leash and/or my girl to initiate a D/s dynamic herself. Of course, she could just ask to play etc but I like a sub with some mischief and spirit about her so an occasional bit of attitude from her works for me.

TFTB *is* a real problem if it's seemingly perpetual brattiness and it probably means you're not that compatible....

You don't have such a dilemma - your dilemma is lack of communication! Being Dom, especially if you're fairly inexperienced, doesn't imply you're all knowing. So you make it your business to discuss every scene afterwards - and beforehand, too, if it's something new. Find out what she likes and what she doesn't then *you* decide what she deserves at the time....

Mature adult to mature adult (as equals) is probably the least complicated form of communication and you have no hangups about TFTB or whatever. I mean, you're both into it for mutual enjoyment, right? Takes but a "look" to get both of you back into role again....

Focus.

(in reply to MaestroBill)

Post #: 11

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/9/2005 8:51:09 AM

itzelwing

Posts: 37
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline

I think the overwhelming response so far has been, COMMUNICATE. And I think that's at the core. It is not "topping from the bottom" if she tells you what she likes...especially if you ask her (or order her, if you prefer) to tell you what she wants. So the best thing to do is talk.

If you're interested in knowing how some other folks have handled this, here are some of the things I do with my Kat.

First, we do talk. From the time we first met and started chatting, I have been probing for the things that push her buttons. Listen when she talks about past experiences, what was good, what was bad, etc. There's nothing wrong with recreating the inventiveness of a past dom... borrowing from someone else's bag of tricks. If someone did something that she still talks about, then it was obviously memorable, and if it's within your own limits, you can do it for her too. Personalize it and make it yours.

By listening, I can also derive my own ideas and...hopefully... create for her another experience that she will still be talking about far into the future.

We also talk after a scene. I usually initiate, and ask about how certain things worked for her...especially when it was something new that we've never done before. This has been great in some cases, because unless something is terribly wrong, I know she'd never interrupt a scene to tell me she doesn't like the way I'm hitting, pinching, binding her. And sometimes, even after nine years, I still misread her reactions and think she hates something when she really loves it. The only way to know is to ask. Just do it later, on more neutral ground well after the scene is over. Kat knows she can be honest. I insist on it, so I know if she says she liked something, she really did... and if she didn't like something, she's not just exaggerating or play-acting.

Something else we've done, and this may appeal to you because it is more subtle, is to write BDSM stories or vignettes. While the tale may be 100% fantasy, it's an easy way to unveil some of the deeper desires without her actually asking for them. The submissive mind can be an interesting playground, and getting some of that on paper (or email) is a good way to get ideas for future scenes. As her master, you can order your submissive to keep a journal or write stories for you, which you reserve the right to read at your leisure.

And after all this, remember this thing too. Just because you now know her desires and wants, that doesn't mean you have to ignore your own. It's a two-way street, and you need to get your ya-yas out too. She is, after all, the bottom.

_____________________________

Master, Friend, and Lover of ItzKat

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 12

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/9/2005 8:54:34 AM

SimplySubmissive

Posts: 216
Joined: 1/2/2004
Status: offline

I'm so tired of hearing about "topping from the bottom"!! I have been told that asking for any kind pf parameters in a relationship it TPFB, that having needs that are unmet, and asking about them is TFTB, that discussing things I like and don't like is TFTB., even having safewords and limits are considered TFTB by some.
It's my humble opinion that the more secure a Dominant is in His role, the less He is concerned about "topping from the bottom"

It's the new ones, the online ones, the insecure ones, the ones who are just in it for the control that make this a huge issue.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 13

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/9/2005 8:57:55 AM

topcat

Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline

quote:

How can I find out what my Sub really likes, to get her flying, without her topping from the bottom??

M. Bill-

simple- tie her to a chair, and beat the truth out of her.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to MaestroBill)

Post #: 14

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/9/2005 9:36:59 AM

fastlane

Posts: 2159
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline

LOL...I have to agree with Lawerence.

"Tell me what makes you fly...and tell me now cum slut." Smack, whap, whip,thud.

"To be tied up and beaten Master."

"Stop Topping me Slut." Smack, whap, whip, thud.

You Gotta Love this Lifestyle!!!! Kevin

_____________________________

Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

(in reply to topcat)

Post #: 15

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/9/2005 9:50:41 AM

RainGod

Posts: 230
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Hendersonville, NC
Status: offline

LMMFAO @ Kevin and Lawrence!!! This is too fucking funny!!!!

" Ve are not Nazis... but ve haff vays of makink you tell us your fetishes....!
...now sign zee papers!"

_____________________________

Love is a razor & I walk the line on that silver blade... slept in the dust with His daughter her eyes red with the slaughter of innocence... The evil that men do lives on & on.
~ Iron Maiden

(in reply to fastlane)

Post #: 16

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/9/2005 10:52:57 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat
simple- tie her to a chair, and beat the truth out of her.

Priceless!

It is so wonderful to see you posting again.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to topcat)

Post #: 17

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/9/2005 11:30:08 AM

krikket

Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline

"Topping from the bottom," imho, is one of the cutsey catch phrases that should be banned. I've never heard of anyone being accused of "bottoming from the top," but i guess that's another thread..lol.

There's nothing wrong with finding out what both partner wants, needs, likes, hates, has a hard limit on. That's what communication, via e-mails, talking over coffee or a meal, phone chats, et al, bdsm checklists are all about. i don't want to do something to my partner if he doesn't like it, and i think it's important that he know what my hard limits are as well..especially if he'd like to meet more than once. Most subs that i know aren't real crazy about the phrase either, cuz i think it's as much a slam against our partners as us. i'm careful to let a poteltial partner know of medical problems that keep me from kneeling on a hard surface, so i look at him providing me a pillow as being thoughtful, not as me topping from the bottom.

Now..about that chair <grins> that sounds like it has some definate potential..so..maybe i'm wrong..lol...

cheers
jimini..

xoxoxo

_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin

When your heart speaks take good notes.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 18

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/9/2005 8:41:37 PM

amazonlea

Posts: 30
Status: offline

Honestly, if you can't read her mind, you are sooooo not ready to top anyone, let alone be a real dominant or master. Being on top means that you must be all knowing and all seeing - like the nuns in grade school. Asking her what she likes or doesn't like is a sign of weakness that no self respecting submissive can respect. Now a slave maybe, but you can never really know what they are thinking... Oh, and of course asking a bottom for anything beyond your slippers and a stiff drink is a sure sign of a diminished penis size.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander. The true submissive KNOWS what her dominant wants and needs at all times. She shouldn't have to be told, or given any guidelines. If it is the real thing, no communication is necessary. But that is another topic.

It's all about mind reading.

(I hope you got the sarcasm - no one just knows... ASK!!!)

B

P.S. The whole wet thing... not a sure sign... not all women are fountains.

< Message edited by amazonlea -- 10/9/2005 8:43:26 PM >

(in reply to krikket)

Post #: 19

RE: How to ask a Sub without her topping from the bottom - 10/10/2005 9:39:22 PM

OscarHargraves

Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline

Hey Maestro,
Do you ever have times when you're not role playing? How about an evening discussion where you BOTH talk about what you like, dislike and might want to try?

Yeah, it's communicate again, but from a slightly diffewrent angle.

_____________________________

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

(in reply to MaestroBill)

Post #: 20

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