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Feminization - 4/14/2008 6:30:27 AM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
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I have a question for the Female Dominants. I have noticed many straight male submissive profiles with pictures of themselves in womens clothing. i read the profiles out of curiosity and, more often than not, they do not mention "cross-dressing", just a willlingness to please.

So, i am curious...do they dress like this because most female Dominants prefer their subs to be feminized? Do you find this attractive aside from its obvious association with humiliation? What is the connection with male subs in womens clothing?

peace of curiosity,
j

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Post #: 1

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 6:34:40 AM

Shewalksinbeauty

Posts: 19
Joined: 10/28/2007
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First of all, I don't think you can truly categorize female dominants, each one does things her way and every one is a little bit different. Since consent should always be present, those men cross dressing even without mentioning that they like it would have to be enjoying it on some level, or a domme should not go near the territory.

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 2

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 7:00:27 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader
So, i am curious...do they dress like this because most female Dominants prefer their subs to be feminized? Do you find this attractive aside from its obvious association with humiliation? What is the connection with male subs in womens clothing?

I expect the choice to crossdress in the photos reflects what the sub enjoys more than a wish to appeal to what dommes find attractive.

From what I have gathered from various discussions, a want to crossdress from within is driven by a subjective combination of different motivations: a fetish or admiration for the female appearance, emasculation towards escaping society defined gender roles, emasculation towards humiliation, an alter ego or persona play (maid fetish), gender identity matters, more.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 3

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 7:06:52 AM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
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I believe a big part of it is assumption and going with the crowd. They assume being in female clothes is something everyone will find appealing, they see it on all the other profiles and assume that will get them positive reactions.
They assume it proves they will do anything asked of them.
Lots of assumptions, though if you read what the Dominant women say, we are rather split on which we prefer... effeminate or masculine.

DV

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(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 4

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 7:22:54 AM

Shawn1066

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Joined: 10/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader
Do you find this attractive aside from its obvious association with humiliation?

When my Owner and I partake in it, it's never humiliating at all. *shrugs*

DV's Fox

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 5

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 7:32:53 AM

Mustardseed

Posts: 291
Joined: 5/27/2006
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader
So, i am curious...do they dress like this because most female Dominants prefer their subs to be feminized? Do you find this attractive aside from its obvious association with humiliation? What is the connection with male subs in womens clothing?

I'm usually put off by such photographs because it looks like the guy is showing up with his own pre-packaged persona, whether I like it or not. I have my own aesthetic and while I could work with someone who wanted to cross-dress, they'd have to do it on my terms. Generally, crossdressing as I usually see it doesn't excite me at all.

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 6

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 7:49:51 AM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
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Thanks for the replies so far

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shewalksinbeauty
First of all, I don't think you can truly categorize female dominants, each one does things her way and every one is a little bit different. Since consent should always be present, those men cross dressing even without mentioning that they like it would have to be enjoying it on some level, or a domme should not go near the territory.

True...i expect there will be many varied preferences and i agree,the male subs must enjoy it on some level or they wouldn't do it without some "motivation"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sea
I expect the choice to crossdress in the photos reflects what the sub enjoys more than a wish to appeal to what dommes find attractive.

i was thinking along these lines as well. i would certainly described cross dressing as a fetish and all well and good for those who enjoy that. Perhaps, it is more of a psychological observation of the male submissive who identifies his submission with feminization.

You , Sea, present a much more appealing image of masculine submission which obviously is my preference and nothing more . i just don't think i have ever seen a picture of a female submissive dressed as a male so it definitely caused me to wonder why the difference...

quote:

Lots of assumptions, though if you read what the Dominant women say, we are rather split on which we prefer... effeminate or masculine.

Yes, skimming the more legitimate Fem Dom profiles it does seem split on preferences and perhaps my own preferences color my view of the effeminate male. i find the male body so beautiful in its masculinity that to see it in womens clothing and so prolifically caused me to wonder at why so many submissive males cross-dress.

i don't think i have ever seen a Male Dominant in women's clothing so as i said above, my curiosity as to the psychology of it all inspired me to post the question. i might post a variant in the sub thread as well to see both sides of the equation.

Although, i am still curious in the replies from the Fem Doms here

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 7

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 7:55:35 AM

jeffman1234

Posts: 61
Joined: 6/11/2004
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Wow, very well said!

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 8

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 8:04:57 AM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shawn1066

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader
Do you find this attractive aside from its obvious association with humiliation?

When my Owner and I partake in it, it's never humiliating at all. *shrugs*

DV's Fox

Thanks Fox
i appreciate your view as an owned slave. Although i have never been owned, i have had intense connections with those i have played with/served that what someone else might have considered "humiliating", i did not.

Perhaps i chose my words incorrectly in my original posting...perhaps i too was "assuming" that dressing in womens clothing would be a show of humiliation for the "searching" male submissive.

i am still learning

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mustardseed
I have my own aesthetic and while I could work with someone who wanted to cross-dress, they'd have to do it on my terms.

i think this is a very key point...
It is not that i cannot see aspects of this in erotic play, i have just been surprised by the number of searching male submissives that chose these photos - particularly as their primary, as if this is the winning format for attracting a Fem Dom~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to Shawn1066)

Post #: 9

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 8:15:20 AM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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From my experience as a professional dominant, I can say that crossdressing is THE commonest fetish. On a personal level, it's not to my taste at all, and I have been using the "hide" function on the other side to hide the CD profiles.......guess how really really long my hidden list is?

I can see CD photos as a way of presenting a prepackaged fetish, and as such, a turnoff, but at the same time, the sincere crossdressers I've met have a femme persona. That femme persona is who they are offering up, not the self that goes to work every day like a regular guy. {apologies for the runon sentence}

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(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 10

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 8:50:30 AM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
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Thanks LadyHibiscus

Trully the CD's that label themselves in that catagory are a seperate persona and many make quite beautiful women!

It is just curious to me the males that do not label themselves that way but use a cross-dress photo to depict, and in my opinion, define themselves

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 11

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 8:57:28 AM

faerytattoodgirl

Posts: 5824
Status: offline

to me forced femme doesnt exist...it should just be called cross dressing.

because anyone who is into that actually likes what is happening and it is certainly not humiliation. i have not heard or seen any case where it wasnt enjoyed by the male.

now then....putting female clothes on FABIO or jerry springer would be funny shit.

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(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 12

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 8:57:54 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreaderYou , Sea, present a much more appealing image of masculine submission which obviously is my preference and nothing more . i just don't think i have ever seen a picture of a female submissive dressed as a male so it definitely caused me to wonder why the difference...

Thank you for the compliment :)

Because Fm (female dominance, male submission) goes against roles traditionally presented by society, I think there is a greater tendency to develop constructs to accept or achieve the Fm dynamic.

To elaborate, before I had found BDSM, my fantasies were more powerful if they seemed achievable. For instance, a fantasy of a giantess was not as interesting as a fantasy about the mean girl in school who somehow achieved power over me. For a fantasy to seem achievable, it had to address two questions: (1) why would someone do this to me, and (2) why would I allow someone to do this to me?

When I found BDSM, the most realistic scenario was consensual BDSM with a domme. Thus, this scenario became the most attractive one and addressed the two questions above.

I have a theory that for some people in the Fm dynamic, addressing these questions still makes the experience more powerful or is still necessary. I think it is for this reason we see many constructs in Fm that we do not see elsewhere or at least not as frequently: giantess or amazon fetish, muscle fetish, martial arts fetish, goddess fetish, female superiority (I think it can also serve as such a construct), blackmail, more. For some people, these constructs may help to escape and provide justification for the submission that goes against the traditional roles initially (as one is still coming to terms with submission) or on an ongoing basis.

I think one possible reason for crossdressing, and a reason why it is more common in Fm is that it may serve as such a construct--by escaping the male identity perhaps one finds it easier to escape the societal roles.

I think another reason for your observation is that a man dressing in female clothing has potential for Ds or humiliation aspects, whereas the reverse does not hold as much, which I attribute to society's perception of appropriate behavior for the sexes.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 13

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 9:03:57 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

to me forced femme doesnt exist...it should just be called cross dressing.

I think forced feminization, or forced bi, or anything else that is forced does exist. In some cases, it may indeed be that the person enjoys the activity and needs to be forced to overcome any guilt or hesitation. Or it may be that the person enjoys the activity not for the sake of the activity but for the sake of being forced.

The example I give is that a man might enjoy being forced to lick a floor. It is not that licking the floor itself is exhilirating, but being forced to do so represents submission and is what makes it interesting for him. He would likely not get any reward out of it if he was not forced to do so, or if it did not represent submission.

My two cents.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)

Post #: 14

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 9:19:17 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
From my experience as a professional dominant, I can say that crossdressing is THE commonest fetish.

So the foot fetishists have been overrun in numbers? ;-)

I think it would be fun to have BDSM Family Fued at a party. And so I am imagining two people up at the buzzers. The question is: what is the most common fetish. Which will it be? You'll have to watch the show to find out ;-)

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 15

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 9:20:27 AM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

Thank you for the compliment :)

You are welcome

quote:

I think one possible reason for crossdressing, and a reason why it is more common in Fm is that it may serve as such a construct--by escaping the male identity perhaps one finds it easier to escape the societal roles.

I think another reason for your observation is that a man dressing in female clothing has potential for Ds or humiliation aspects, whereas the reverse does not hold as much, which I attribute to society's perception of appropriate behavior for the sexes.

Cheers,

Sea

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The above quoted is great food for thought - thanks!

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 16

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 9:23:23 AM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
Status: offline

Hmm.. Where to begin?
I enjoy dressing my submissive up in girls clothing. I enjoy putting make up on him and doing his hair. Why? I think a part of me enjoys the closeness that we share while doing it. It is like having a girlfriend over for a slumber party. We can play dress up and just have a good time of it. Am I forcing him? No. He loves it when I dress him up. But what about it does he love? Is it the attention that he is getting from me? Does he feel pretty? Does he feel a sense of freedom, that he can truly express himself, creatively? I am not sure of any of these things, but I do know what it does for me. It must satisfy something in both parties, for both to want to do it and isn't that what really matters?

quote:

Do you find this attractive aside from its obvious association with humiliation?

I don't find anything we do associated with humiliation. I have much funner things I use for that. Feminization is not one of them.

MoGa

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Post #: 17

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 9:26:07 AM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
From my experience as a professional dominant, I can say that crossdressing is THE commonest fetish.

So the foot fetishists have been overrun in numbers? ;-)

I think it would be fun to have BDSM Family Fued at a party. And so I am imagining two people up at the buzzers. The question is: what is the most common fetish. Which will it be? You'll have to watch the show to find out ;-)

Cheers,

Sea

The ultimate party game!! But yes, I do put sissy/CD's ahead of the foot guys...though this could be skewed data, since there are plenty of women who will accept the foot guys. Me, I hate being objectified, and OMG foot worship eeeeh. Massage is painful to me, so no thanks....

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[page 23 girl]

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 18

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 10:02:59 AM

pupofMoGa

Posts: 165
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

Hmm.. Where to begin?
I enjoy dressing my submissive up in girls clothing. I enjoy putting make up on him and doing his hair. Why? I think a part of me enjoys the closeness that we share while doing it. It is like having a girlfriend over for a slumber party. We can play dress up and just have a good time of it. Am I forcing him? No. He loves it when I dress him up. But what about it does he love? Is it the attention that he is getting from me? Does he feel pretty? Does he feel a sense of freedom, that he can truly express himself, creatively? I am not sure of any of these things, but I do know what it does for me. It must satisfy something in both parties, for both to want to do it and isn't that what really matters?

quote:

Do you find this attractive aside from its obvious association with humiliation?

I don't find anything we do associated with humiliation. I have much funner things I use for that. Feminization is not one of them.

MoGa

Awww Mistress!!!!! I love it when You dress me up, You are so true about it being like a slumber party. I always wanted to know what they were like, i cant believe they are so fun! The closeness Mistress mentions is like no other feeling, truly an intimate encounter which is highly erotic and almost intoxicating. I love everything about it, the closeness, the personal attention from Mistress, and even feeling the wave of beauty surging through me which i cannot feel unless Mistress puts me through her salon. After She completes my makeover, i am stuck singing West Side Story- I Feel Pretty <blushes and laughs> in my head. Included with my new found feeling of beauty, having Mistress treat me as Her little girl after the makeover is a breath taking experience. I love and appreciate everything that Mistress does to turn me into her little girl whom She calls Brianna. When Mistress turns me into Brianna, i feel a release from the world of Brian and a new found sense of freedom in which i can be Mistress's little girl, to love and train to be a woman. It doesn't feel humiliating to me, it is sheer ecstasy. <runs up to Mistress and hugs Her> I love You Mistress!!!!

lololoolololololololololololololollolololloloololol
-pup

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Post #: 19

RE: Feminization - 4/14/2008 10:06:56 AM

MissDs

Posts: 4
Joined: 4/14/2008
Status: offline

Forced femming.... what a subject!
why? because some enjoy the humiliation of being a gurl - slut, maid, whatever... Others - perhaps they are transgendered and it's the perfect excuse to be gurly. What can be more exciting than seeing a pretty little sissy gurly in lingerie, all femmed, on her knees and begging - pleading to be made more femme? Her gender stripped away and replaced with something more pleasing...

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 20

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