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RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 10/29/2005 4:09:18 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

SirKenin said nothing would happen because of 2257 and the new witchhunt by the government and called us all 'chicken littles' who were overreacting. Meanwhile, sites are shutting down and people are being investigated. Who whould've thought. He won't admit he was wrong, however.

Akasha

I'm not saying nothing will come of it, but factually what has?
Some sites have been listed in this thread which have voluntarily shut down, not because they were prosecuted, but because they assumed they would be... we don't actually know if they would have been or not. Bit cowardly of them to pack it in not only before there was a battle, but before there was a clear indication there even will be a battle.
Who, specifically, has been investigated?
The FBI "task force" sounds like a joke. The mandate that was handed down re-assigns a whole 10 agents for the fiscal year to this task force. Golly, with manpower like that they can... well... not even cope with the paperwork I would imagine. Meanwhile the Drug Enforcement Administration employs over 4,000, the ATF more than 2,000 and Customs more than 10,000. Ten agents is less than they assualted Waco with. Oooooh I'm skeered.
Meanwhile the Cybercrimes Division of the FBI (created in 2003) has 60 squads of agents around the nation with a variable number of agents assigned to each squad... but the total is at least 20 times that assigned to the new pornography task force. Just looking at the assignment of manpower says something about where their priorities really are.
On the FBI's list of top ten priorities... pornography isn't even listed. Likewise in the Directors mission statement for the FBI for 2004-2009 (132 pages in length)... a war on pornography isn't even listed (in fact it doesn't mention combatting pornography at all).

Now while this might be the beginning of something larger and it does bear watching... I'd hold off on grabbing the kids and heading for the hills just yet. Because it could also be a political dog and pony show on the part of the Bush adminastration to appease the religious right and maintain their support.

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(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 10/29/2005 10:59:17 PM   
jro2020


Posts: 160
Joined: 10/23/2005
From: Idaho
Status: offline 		Hmmm lets see says here (on the fcc website) there have to be complaints for it to constitute as obscene. I am offended by most of what that jackass bush says, i think it's time to start sending letters everytime i see his ugly face on TV.

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RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 10/27/2009 8:22:10 AM   
Peregrinus1716


Posts: 14
Joined: 7/26/2009
Status: offline 		this is a sad state of affairs and unfortunately i do not thing it will get any better. many of the kinks are just not something main stream society is openminded about and worse yet the goverment in the US has tried for years to legislate morality or at least their version of it.

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 10/27/2009 9:31:51 AM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Peregrinus1716

this is a sad state of affairs and unfortunately i do not thing it will get any better. many of the kinks are just not something main stream society is openminded about and worse yet the goverment in the US has tried for years to legislate morality or at least their version of it.


This thread is 4 years old and I am sorry but according to the link, they had stories involving minors. I will never be open minded when it come to that crap.


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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 10/27/2009 10:15:12 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		There was a documentary on recently, about who profits from pornography, including BDSM related stuff, they got an investigator skilled at weeding out financial dealings on the case, and came up with some surprising results. The banks and financial institutions are in on the actm they are reaping funds from the pornography industry, because with the internet and all, pornography is a growth industry, where there is growth banks will be snout in the trough with certainty, money is money regardless of it's origin. The documentary chap approached the banks regarding what they are involved in, but they denied all involvement.

Now, as it seems our governments are the lap dogs of the banks, I hardly think they are going to stuff up a source of profit, but you get something like here, it being ill defined and illegal and therefore prosecutable, now and again make an example of someone, just to remind people and then allow things to carry on. Basically an area of human recreation controlled like so many other aspects of our lives.

I suppose we have to remember, we reap what we sow, vote the bastards in, accept what they tell us to do. This country, Labour lost my vote long before the implementation of the new porn law.


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(in reply to thishereboi)
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RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 10/27/2009 1:33:25 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		FR, after skim thru

Fascinating. I'm glad someone resurrected this 4 year old thread. It makes interesting reading from our perspective in the future of the OP . . . . .

Firstly, I think that restrictions against pedophilia & bestiality materials are reasonable . . . . . & if those topics are avoided there's little legal recourse to suppress the expression of consenting adults, at least here in the US . . . . . . (Sometimes people seem to forget that there are countries with very real, very ugly political & social repression going on -- the US doesn't even compare to the dictatorships in effect in a significant chunk of the planet's nation-states . . . . . )

& outside of that, porn seems to have survived the Bush era, lol . . . . . Of course, it's been surviving much worse for thousands of years, so I'm not that surprised . . . . . .

Hell, look, we're all still here, hanging out on CM, able to post (ever more) depraved pics & text & not be prosecuted nor the site shuttered . . . . .

Hmmmmmm . . . . . Now y'all know a little about why I like to read history -- shit sucked back then & it's so much better now . . . . .

< Message edited by DemonKia -- 10/27/2009 1:34:07 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 10/30/2009 11:41:48 PM   
einstien5201


Posts: 63
Joined: 9/29/2009
Status: offline 		I'm glad someone resurrected the thread. I hate digging, but I was sorely tempted to do so for this thread. Now I don't have to!

IIRC, wasn't there a recent Supreme Court decision that ruled that stories/pictures involving sex with minors was not illegal, as long as no actual minors were involved? Since hearing about this, I've seen a huge boom in crappy CGI porn online.

Why should stories about pedophilia be illegal? We don't criminalize stories or movies that involve rape, murder, mind control, abuse, or a whole host of other illegal activities. I can accept the theory that children are inherently hurt by being involved in sexual entertainment, but an adult writing a story about pedophilia doesn't harm a child any more than an adult writing a murder mystery kills someone. Pedo may be a squick for most people, but most of what we talk about on this site is a squick for a good portion of the general public. My views on bestiality are similar, though more complex because of my views on animal rights (they don't have any, they aren't human).

Any argument that indulging the fantasies of pedophiles will result in them harming more children should logically be applied to murderers, thieves, and rapists as well. Since these criminals are at least as common (I suspect much more so) than pedophiles, it seems there would be an even larger justification to ban films or stories involving murder, theft, or rape.

As to the original topic of the thread....porn is the oldest form of entertainment. It is the first to take advantage of any new medium, and generally the most profitable. Porn, in nearly any form, is impossible to stop. Despite the best efforts of our law-enforcement agencies, decades of hard work, and extremely strict laws and punishments, we still hear stories in the news of child-pornography rings. BDSM porn, like any other genre, will survive and thrive no matter what the government does. Obscenity laws are at best ineffective, and at worst backfire.

(in reply to DemonKia)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 10/31/2009 1:11:31 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		So this is illegal ? :

http://www.tpe.com/~altarboy/nt050628.htm

Fukum.

T

(in reply to einstien5201)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 10/31/2009 4:09:57 PM   
sophia37


Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		I just think the issue was the child stuff. If that's illegal then that's illegal! I dont know the law. But that seems to be the issue here. Nothing else.

(in reply to Sketchy)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 10/31/2009 7:47:06 PM   
Rhodes85


Posts: 445
Joined: 11/15/2008
From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Status: offline 		I wouldn't put much faith in this lasting too long. It won't be long before the Government pulls down a site and the owner slaps a suit on them for violation of their rights to 'free expression' or until the ACLU steps in. If by chance that doesn't happen and they do manage to get away with it, i'd say it will expand to included alot more things as 'obscene' hell they'd probably go after these sites next. As for stories they are just stories. So long as they don't make references to little kids or minors they're fine. and those that do? just get rid of those particular stories if they want to. Theres no need to remove the entire site.

Incidently, moving your server to Denmark would make no difference. The Government can claim since the person creating the work was a US citizen, and since it violates their laws, they have a right to have it removed. And they would top it off with a court order to the persons ISP to cut off their internet access. Webhosts and ISPs don't screw around on things like that. If you just mention the possibility of a lawsuit they'll comply most of the time.

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 12/8/2009 6:15:06 PM   
TSWhoreSlutSlave


Posts: 1
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		fuck them all. we are the revolutionaries. we will make the changes. the government chips away at our rights little by little and every time a right is lost it is dead forever. "when they knock at your front door, how you gonna come? with your hands on your head or on the trigger of a gun." it is an honor to be banned, illegal and a blight on their society.

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 12/9/2009 8:42:05 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline 		Don't understand why this shit thread was resurrected from 2005?

Move on dot orgy!

Vincent

< Message edited by vincentML -- 12/9/2009 8:43:06 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 12/10/2009 4:59:43 AM   
BrokenSaint


Posts: 301
Joined: 10/30/2007
Status: offline 		I'll just leave this here.

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/102/threadnecromancyns1nf0.jpg


< Message edited by BrokenSaint -- 12/10/2009 5:01:43 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 12/10/2009 8:37:01 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Peregrinus1716

this is a sad state of affairs and unfortunately i do not thing it will get any better. many of the kinks are just not something main stream society is openminded about and worse yet the goverment in the US has tried for years to legislate morality or at least their version of it.

This thread is OVER 4 years old...... Why not just start up a discussion of your own, with whats pertinent today about the subject ?


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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 12/10/2009 9:27:22 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

There are many problems with censorship in a free society. Real or fiction, doesn't matter.

Let's take a story.

Chapter one.

A girl is raped at age two. From there she got whored out by her stepdad and later got out of there at any cost. After that she fell into a life of crime, drugs and prostitution. Some of the johns were kinky, and she would do anything but was not into it so had to be high or drunk to comply. [end chapter one]

A sad state of affairs indeed. A whole bunch of people would like to knock the shit out of her abusers, maybe even kill them. What if explicit scenarios are drawn in text of these kinky episodes ? Then what if one person got turned on by even one literary expression of said episodes ? One person. [end commentary]

Chapter two.

Now she's my roomie. She is off drugs and has been out of jail for a record one year now. She is eating better and has an olman to whom she is faithful. I don't charge her rent, but she takes care of the house, and I am a terrible slob. She has expressed that she never really knew what it was to know family until now. My concern is not so much how long she stays, but where she goes as this is a temporay living arraingement. [end chapter two]

The end.

Now where does that stand ? What if one of the scenarios depicted in text resulted in sexual arousal in just a scant small percentage of the people ? You can speculate all day long (or for five years on CM I guess) whether such a story should be considered erotic, or even real or fiction. What would be the main criterium, intent ? Or would it be in the eye of the beholder ?

A movie such as Eating Rhaoul would land you in the joint. Why not ? That's actually a motion picture with kinky costumes, some whips and chains, and basically is terrible, but....... if you've never seen it, I'll throw the quickest synopsis as possible.

This couple wanted to start a restauant and was out to raise the capital. Roundabout they got the idea to rob kinksters, homosexuals and whatevr kind of "deviant" they could lure into their trap. They robbed and killed their clients and sold the bodies to Rhaoul who sold them to a dog food factory. At one point they had a bunch of their "clients" in a pool and threw a toaster oven in, killing them all in one fell swoop. Rhaoul made good money that day when they paid him to get rid of the bodies, but then they found out Rhaoul was making money both ways. Rhaoul is killed in an ensuing scene and they cook his body up and eat it.

So this movie is perfactly OK as long as noone gets turned on by this one Woman who shows up in tight leather or something with a whip. Would that be correct ?

Censorship is very dangerous ground in a supposedly free society. What do we do, put it to a popular vote to be fair ? Remember those in CA (of all places) to vote to ban Gay marriage.

There is also the possibility that censors are harboring hidden desires, and gloat at the fact that they can get material that noone else can get. In a society where you have preachers busted for tax evasion and caught with prostitutes, and Priests caught with little boys, this is a distinct possiblity, at least some of them.

Now I prefer to punish real crimes of you please. There was a gang of pornographers who sold videos of kids getting raped and killed for upwards of $15,000 per copy. They were busted in Russia and Italy. Now these videos are evidence of actual crimes, therefore logic draws the line.

However in the printed word, there can be no real line. You can't please everyone. If you can put anyone in jail for what they write that means they can do the same to me, or YOU.

Do not get me wrong, there are things that are offensive to me. More than you think actually, but I do NOT have the right to make it illegal. Nobody does. Fiction is fiction.

Now what of cartoons. I actually saw one once depicting the Flinstones having an orgy. Yes it was bad, but it was just a drawing. Does the person who drew it need to go to jail ?

Your call, not mine. (not your's either actually)

T

(in reply to BrokenSaint)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 12/10/2009 12:28:49 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline 		Please stop feeding this dead thread. It has no relevance to reality 2010.

Vincent

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RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 12/10/2009 1:28:00 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Don't understand why this shit thread was resurrected from 2005?

Move on dot orgy!

Vincent


Thank you.  The lack of ability in starting new threads on any subject tends to amaze Me.


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RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 12/10/2009 10:07:36 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"It has no relevance to reality 2010. "

How's that ? Did those laws expire ?

T

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 12/10/2009 11:24:49 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I suggest that we make a HEAVY turnout at the polls in November of 2010 and send them a loud message!

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RE: BDSM art and stories now illegal - 12/10/2009 11:29:46 PM   
Antiquity


Posts: 2
Joined: 11/11/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I suggest that we make a HEAVY turnout at the polls in November of 2010 and send them a loud message!


I don't think the turnout we could potentially muster would even be a blip on the radar.

If you'd want to send a message, I assume the best course of action would be to align this cause with free speech causes.

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Profile   Post #: 80
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