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Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 7:25:11 AM

cyberdude611

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A student at Yale University artificially inseminated herself several times and each time took drugs to force a miscarriage while videotaping it and making an "art project."

http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/24513

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 7:37:44 AM

slaveluci

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Wonder if she's got any tape of her lobotomy she'd care to share for her next "project?"

................luci

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 7:56:23 AM

kittinSol

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It's weird, but art often is. It's dangerous, but it's her body. It's aesthetically a little creepy, for my taste, but to those that scream 'immoral!!!' , I say: it's none of your business. And nobody forces you to go and see her project.

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 8:04:47 AM

slaveluci

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's weird, but art often is. It's dangerous, but it's her body. It's aesthetically a little creepy, for my taste, but to those that scream 'immoral!!!' , I say: it's none of your business. And nobody forces you to go and see her project.

True, true, true and true. I still think she's sorely lacking for any real artisitic talent, however. What's that old saying? "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit?" Sounds like this little chicka has that part down to a "T." She insists her concept was not designed for “shock value.” So we can be totally assured that it was. When all else fails, just get 'em talkin'. Negative attention for no talent is always better than no attention, right?

............luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 4/17/2008 8:07:44 AM >

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 8:09:24 AM

kittinSol

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Perhaps, luci. It's a matter of judgement: I haven't seen her stuff, so I can't tell for myself, but I understand why the idea of it would make someone judge her art for being complete bollocks :-) .

Conceptual was always controversial: many folks just like pretty pictures to hang on their walls... I don't think a pretty picture necessarily makes great art (as a matter of fact, it usually doesn't - great art is frequently ugly and soultearing). But that's just me :-) .

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 8:13:12 AM

slaveluci

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Perhaps, luci. It's a matter of judgement: I haven't seen her stuff, so I can't tell for myself, but I understand why the idea of it would make someone judge her art for being complete bollocks :-) .

Conceptual was always controversial: many folks just like pretty pictures to hang on their walls... I don't think a pretty picture necessarily makes great art (as a matter of fact, it usually doesn't - great art is frequently ugly and soultearing). But that's just me :-) .

True again. And I totally agree that a "pretty picture" doesn't necessarily make "great art." Great art IS frequently ugly but I think when an "artist" appears to have set out from square one determined to make it ugly and then call it "art" as an afterthought, they're pretty transparent and predictable and not usually of the "great art" ilk in the end. She had to know what the reaction would be and she had to know it would get her the publicity she apparently craves. It worked but it still doesn't make her any great "artist" in my eyes. It makes her a successful publicity hound, period. Meanwhile artists with real talent and not just lurid shock value go unnoticed. Sad really.............luci

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 8:14:23 AM

domahpet

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boo! those are children shes killing, it isnt ok no matter how small.
im not saying it is or isnt ok, but id never do something like that.

"Shvarts is abusing her constitutional right to do what she chooses with her body. ''

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 8:15:01 AM

Archer

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Personaly see it as immoral, really fail to see the merit of the project, don't believe for a second that her goal was not to scandalize, Think the project gives unnessisary ammo to abortocentrists (anti abortion single issue voter types).

But it leaves me in a tough spot, I'm pro choice and default to freedom whenever possible, but find the choices she made to be immoral. So I get to feel bad about feeling she has the right to do something that goes against my moral objection to the idea of doing this on purpose.

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 8:16:17 AM

QuietlySeeking

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From my mother...
"Just because you can do something legally, doesn't mean you should do it."

She is able to do whatever she wants...just like everyone else.

She also reaps the consequences/reactions from both sides of the fence, those who support her and those who don't.

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 8:17:23 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

Meanwhile artists with real talent and not just lurid shock value go unnoticed. Sad really.............luci

They can rest in the knowledge that Van Gogh died in complete and utter poverty, and yet became recognised as one of the greatest Western painters. Art's not a sinecure - I think Jeff Coon's stuff stinks, but he's rich and famous as hell.

Talent is frequently unrecognised, but the talented plough on regardless... which is all the more to their credit.

PS: I actually agree with Archer's concern that this will give ammunition to anti-choice fanatics, but I disagree with the moral judgement... if we listen to others' moral values, we wouldn't do anything for ourselves. There are a lot of people out there who think that BDSM is immoral. I won't go into the M/s dynamic. And even less foray into the 'polyloving' thing... to a great lot of people, these things are unacceptably immoral... interesting subject though.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 4/17/2008 8:21:58 AM >

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 8:28:05 AM

Archer

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Well I tried to be sure I articulated the idea that while I find it to be immoral, my finding is not something I beleive should be law.
It simply does not meet with my code of morals. the moral code aspect it violates is simple. Abortion chemicly induced or otherwise is a serious thing. The potntial for life being destroyed has to be weighed against the reasons for doing it.
Art no matter how good it might be simply does not reach the level I give to such a serious decission.

I'm free to find the choice immoral, without advocating that the choice be removed by force of law.

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 8:31:27 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

I'm free to find the choice immoral, without advocating that the choice be removed by force of law.

I never denied your freedom of thought, just as I like that you don't deny mine :-) .

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 8:36:11 AM

Archer

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LOL was more pointing out the difference between judegeing something as immoral and advocating for legally removing the freedom to choose to do it anyway. I know far too many folks who can't seem toseperate the ideas on both sides of issues.

Maybe I was misreading your point here "but I disagree with the moral judgement... if we listen to others' moral values, we wouldn't do anything for ourselves. There are a lot of people out there who think that BDSM is immoral. I won't go into the M/s dynamic. And even less foray into the 'polyloving' thing... to a great lot of people, these things are unacceptably immoral..."

Seems we're really only a small distance from each other in this view though.

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 8:45:40 AM

kittinSol

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Indeed, we got our wires crossed. My disagreeing with the moral judgement wasn't addressed to you particularly. I should have made this clearer: mea culpa.

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 8:50:05 AM

cyberdude611

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If you took a poll, most people (even people who are pro-choice) would be against what this woman did. It trivializes the issue. Most women who have an abortion go through a lot of emotional stress in the process.

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 8:55:31 AM

RCdc

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Quick everyone. Sign a petition!
Oh - wait. There isn't one.

the.dark.

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 9:00:48 AM

kittinSol

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What does the case of one woman have to do with the many? She's obviously an isolated case, and not at all representative of the average abortion scenario.

The emotional stress of ending a pregnancy may be a reality to some women: but this artist obviously has put the mute pedal on her 'emotional stress' *shrug*. As I am a woman, I can tell you that I feel neither indignation nor support for her.

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 9:16:58 AM

CalifChick

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I can't bring myself to click the link, but as a woman who has lost a child, I'll come right out and say I'm leaning toward "indignation" and "disgust" right about now.

Cali

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 9:18:32 AM

kittinSol

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Fair enough, it's up to you *shrug*.

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RE: Yale student induces miscarriages as an art project - 4/17/2008 9:22:08 AM

popeye1250

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There must be something in the water in New Haven.

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