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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/20/2008 5:32:46 PM   
trinity46


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Status: offline 		It is true that the larger the area, the better the odds of life forming, but over the vast universe, wherever it did finally happen to develop, would that not be the very location where said life would eventually be having this conversation? 

Trinity

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/20/2008 6:34:03 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Before this gets totally off the rails, I would like to interject that if you want to have a scientific debate, you should go back and read my initial post (it is the second in the thread).

What we have now is just pontificating; the essence of science and supported theories demands testing. Unless both sides are willing to propose testable and falsifiable experiments to demonstrate their point of view which are coherent with regard to their underlying theories, it's just a bunch of hot air.


Then don’t worry about it.

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/20/2008 7:06:08 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

When I say we would have faced long odds "evolving" here I'm using the term "evolve" very loosely. I mean, everything that had to come together perfectly is hard to imagine. The planet had to have perfect distance and spin and chemical composition. Life spontaneously erupting in muddy sulphuric water with an unimaginably harsh atmosphere, then reproducing and "evolving" upward to what we see today, and what we know has walked the earth in the past... the odds against all of this coming together on one single planet are just incredible. Beyond incredible... unfathomable.


I get that. The point I’m trying to get across is that the universe is so vast and so ancient that it really isn’t surprising that at least one planet (and a suspect, more than one) beat the odds. The very fact that we are here to ask the questions is proof that our planet did beat the odds. I don’t see the reason for the extra step. I don’t see why intelligent life has to evolve somewhere else and then come here to kick start our world. Give our planet a little credit.

This isn’t the thread to discuss extra-terrestrial visitations. In a nut shell – I do believe there is other life (intelligent or otherwise) in the universe but I’ve seen no credible evidence to prove that they have visited us. I’m not denying the credibility of your sighting (I’ve seen some wild shit in my time too) but not having been there at the time I’ll keep a neutral position.

As for Evolution versus Intelligent Design I comedown on the Evolution side. That’s where the preponderance of the evidence points. As for my nipple question I think it’s point remains valid – why would an intelligent designer put such superfluous things on males? Their existence are evidence of evolution (alliteration unintended) and against intelligent design. As for my alleged nipple fascination... hey, it’s just a question. But, in defense of my heterosexuality, I would like to say that only female nipple fascinate me, not male ones. Why this should be so when they are really not all that different is, I suspect, also due to evolution.

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/20/2008 7:17:34 PM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		Marc as has been already demonstrated, nipples can/do work on Males, which is a serious stress event could be usefull.  And perhaps someday they will evolve a new function.  And perhaps they have functions we do not know about. 

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/20/2008 7:23:16 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

You don't even have to ask why men have nipples. (Or, I don't know, how about adenoids?) Just ask why God created retroviruses. I've never heard a cogent answer.


I blush to confess this but... because our interchanges on these boards have been... shall we say... contentious?... in the past my first assumption was that you were arguing that adenoids were the reason men have nipples (adenoids? adenoids? don’t they have something to do with the tonsils? time for a wikipedia refreaher...). But I thought it through and decided that you weren’t that off the wall. I guess it just goes to show two people can find common ground on something.

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/20/2008 7:34:11 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

There is no equilibrium in evolution.


I disagree. Evolution is a system (a naturally occurring system, but a system none the less) and systems do seek equilibrium. As I stated earlier equilibrium should not be confused with harmony (which puts a "sweetness and light" human connotation on it). The predator and prey analogy is a good one. If the predators kill off too many of the prey, starvation will reduce the predators numbers allowing the preys numbers to increase eventually allowing the predators numbers to increase again. It’s not harmonious (since there is a lot of painful dying involved) but it is equilibrium.

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/20/2008 7:37:14 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Yeah, I know, the earth is the center of the universe.

I'll get back in line now, tell your popes of science to put away their infernal torture devices. I'll rejoin the lemmings.

Happy?


No one here is claiming that the Earth is the center of the universe. We are only claiming that it is at least one planet in the universe that beat the odds and produced life.

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/20/2008 7:50:02 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

It's a pretty simple concept. I don't know why you're having so much trouble with it.

Picture it like this - earth is one pull on one slot machine in Vegas. One single chance to hit the "life" jackpot.

The entire universe represents every pull ever pulled on every slot machine ever made.

Where do the odds lie?


The odds that at least one of those slot machines, since we are talking about (doing my best Carl Sagan impersonation) billions and billions of slot machines, hitting the jackpot is pretty good. What I don’t understand is why you insist on running up to the machine that did hit the jackpot and insisting "what are the odds?"

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/20/2008 7:57:23 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

It is true that the larger the area, the better the odds of life forming, but over the vast universe, wherever it did finally happen to develop, would that not be the very location where said life would eventually be having this conversation?


That is exactly the point I am arguing. I think you want to talk to Sanity, not me.

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/20/2008 8:54:18 PM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		The overwhelming proof that there is a Creator: the clitoris.

Only a divine being could have invented an organ dedicated to nothing but sexual pleasure.

PS: forgot the  .

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 4/20/2008 9:10:13 PM >

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/20/2008 9:33:51 PM   
trinity46


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Status: offline 		And I am totally agreeing with you. 

Sorry if I confused the issue by responding to your post instead of Sanity's. 

Trinity

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/20/2008 10:10:22 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

The overwhelming proof that there is a Creator: the clitoris.


I’ve always considered the olive as the best evidence for a supreme being – according to evolution such yucky mistakes should have died out a long time ago.

Actually, since males are modified females, men do in fact have a clitoris. Evolution just "decided" that it should earn it’s keep and so turned it into a delivery system by elongating it and running the urethra through it.

So mines bigger than yours! 

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/20/2008 10:14:08 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

And I am totally agreeing with you. 

Sorry if I confused the issue by responding to your post instead of Sanity's. 



No biggie.

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/20/2008 10:57:08 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
I’ve always considered the olive as the best evidence for a supreme being – according to evolution such yucky mistakes should have died out a long time ago.

Why would olives have died out? I've seen birds and small mammals eat uncured ripe olives which would serve to disperse the seeds quite well. Once people figured out how to make gin and vermouth the olive was of course safe for all time.

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/20/2008 11:28:06 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

There is no equilibrium in evolution.


I disagree. Evolution is a system (a naturally occurring system, but a system none the less) and systems do seek equilibrium. As I stated earlier equilibrium should not be confused with harmony (which puts a "sweetness and light" human connotation on it). The predator and prey analogy is a good one. If the predators kill off too many of the prey, starvation will reduce the predators numbers allowing the preys numbers to increase eventually allowing the predators numbers to increase again. It’s not harmonious (since there is a lot of painful dying involved) but it is equilibrium.


Evolution is not a system, it is a process, it is not seeking anything as there appears to be no intelligence behind it.

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/21/2008 6:23:32 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Why would olives have died out? I've seen birds and small mammals eat uncured ripe olives which would serve to disperse the seeds quite well. Once people figured out how to make gin and vermouth the olive was of course safe for all time.


It was a joke.  I loath olives and dearly wish they had gone extinct because then I wouldn't have to pick them out of salads and off of pizzas, etc. 

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/21/2008 6:28:42 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Dude, your palate is skewed. Olives are wonderful. And olive oil? Omfg.

Perhaps you should be reborn on the Mediterranean.

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/21/2008 6:32:29 AM   
FullCircle


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Status: offline 		Olive oil better for the heart than the normal shite you just have to be careful you aren’t getting fake stuff.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/05/witaly105.xml

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/21/2008 6:34:44 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		You're talking to a girl born in Provence: I know my olive oil.



PS: thanks for the article though. Whenever I can, I avoid buying Italian products because well, everyone knows, it's all Mafia  .

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 4/21/2008 6:36:04 AM >

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RE: "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" - 4/21/2008 6:38:56 AM   
FullCircle


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Status: offline 		Yep or the Berlusconi.

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