Loveisallyouneed
Posts: 348
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
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ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed
And if it were as simple as that it would be done.
I invested over three months in a woman last fall. We talked, we met, we dated, we fell in love, we made plans to live together, then she moved in.
Hey, Gotta disagree because it really IS that simple. First off Three Months is a good investment when you ALREADY know the person. However the first two months is really just feeling each other out in my opinion. Now I am a FAST mover. I like to get in, sit down, shut up, and GO. Because of this I usually have to drive around the block a few times before she is ready to go for the ride. The question is will it be a Pit Stop or a Long Haul? I will not deny that you fell in love I am with you on this I happen to fall in love very quickly, not because I am careless with love but because I invest myself heavily into other people and learn how to re-build when the tower Falls.
One of my Favorite Quote is by Michael Caine in Batman Begins:
"Why do we Fall Master Bruce? ..... So we can learn to pick ourselves back up again"
Mine too.
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In this situation I would say that you got overly involved with a dynamic that wasn't really there. Just because you wanted the Happy Family Master and slave Image did not mean it existed and apparently is didn't and in three month how could you have really known it wasn't there.
I am NOT going to say you should have spent more time because that isn't my own style I am all about seat of your pants flying.
What I am saying is be realistic when you are doing so. Three months is just NOT enough time to create a STABLE foundation. If you built the house on the Foundation before it wa stable you shouldn't be surprized when it falls down around your head.
I understand your point. But I must respond by saying it is not the amount of time that determines such things.
Consider the insensitive lout: no amount of time is going to be enough for him. He's never going to form a stable foundation.
By the same token the more sensitive, perceptive, etc a person is, the more is gained from each shared experience.
In other words, time is not the relevant issue: perception is.
And our decision to live together when we did was a mutual one. Indeed, she was the one who was pushing for it, quit her job and moved to make it happen.
So I see no reason to doubt that my perception of our relationship was accurate to the degree it was possible for me to see her for who she is.
The negative behaviour manifested itself only under the conditions of living together. That was the trigger, and until triggered, it remained dormant, hidden.
No amount of experience prior to living together was going to reveal it.
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ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed
Overnight she had a frontal lobotomy, a complete personality makeover, and became the Paranoia Queen.
Why?
It turns out she has psychological problems with committment and depending on others. The result, she says, of past traumatic experiences with others.
Since then she has gone from labelling herself "slave" to "submissive" to "vanilla with kink".
See and here is where I point out you simply wanted what you wanted. If you listend to her from the very beginning and asked her about the experience she actually had you would know that she was what she was.
Incorrect. I did have those conversations and I am not easily persuaded that an individual is ready for the kind of life she will live with me. Indeed, all of my assumptions fall on the side that she will not want the life I offer. This is why full disclosure is so important to me: get everything out in the open and let her make her choice.
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The terms "Submissive" "Slave" and "Vannila with Kink" are all the same thing depending on WHO THE PERSON SAYING IT IS! There is the possibility that she realized that to herself she was a SLAVE but to you she was a Submissive untile she learned what you saw a Submissive as and so then she realized that to YOU she was just a Vanilla with Kink.
We went through this process long before we talked of living together. The labels were defined explicitly so that we understood each other clearly.
Her re-labelling was her effort to facilitate her fear of committment and dependancy (not to mention her fear of addressing these issues directly).
What she truly wanted was what she found when she found me. Her repeated efforts to start over testify to that. But her fear prevents her from making any progress.
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None of these are BAD things they are just interpretations of self, and honestly Bob, If you were paying attention and asking the questions you needed to ask and letting HER answer them from HER perspective you would have seen that there was No Lobotomy just a girl who liked to use a Word that didn't mean what you think it should mean.
You are aware, I assume, that all of your statements are assumptions ... assumptions that I was in some way negligent and furthermore assumptions that I have reported all the incidents correctly and been entirely incorrect in reporting who was responsible for what.
Those kinds of assumptions testify to an agenda, wouldn't you say?
Clearly, your assumptions are incorrect. As I said, I assume that, given all the facts, nearly all women will refuse a relationship with me. This does not bother me, for I seek the one who will want me for who I am, thus full disclosure on my part is mandatory if I am to hope to find the woman I seek.
It is not enough to just disclose, it is also essential that I be sure the lady in question understands and accepts what I have to offer before proceeding further (like living together).
And I must understand and accept what she offers me.
There is nothing about this that is 'flying by the seat of my pants'.
I simply do not let the calendar dictate when it is time to move on to the next stage. If we're not ready, we don't advance. If we're both ready, advancement occurs of its own accord.
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ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed
Understand that last fall she was claiming to be a slave with years of experience and absolute confidence that she would carry out any committment she might make.
She claims she had no idea that these changes would occur, or that this problem would get the better of her.
This is a problem especially prevalent amongst those who say "I have no experience but I am sure... blah blah blah".
See and this one should have been a RED flag to you because I don't care about someones Past experince because I'm NOT that person. I do things differently and I know I do, so I take most submissive experinece as "They know what they like but they don't yet know me." This girl (From what you have offered in this Post) wanted a Fantasy and was BLIND to the reality AT FIRST and after a few days of actually living is she had to make a choice.
It never ceases to amaze me how little people understand that untill it is REAL it just isn't REAL and NO, I repete NO permanent steps can be made until the person has commited to already making it Permanent. The first YEAR of a relationship is just getting to know if you can actually HANDLE the daily grind with your partner then things are good till you move intogerther and then you have to reset the clock again because you just changed the dynamic.
With every change you are Creating a NEW relationship and you have to accept that when the Dynamic changes so do the rules and the Foundation. The foundation may not be destroyed but it has shifted and anything can happen till you get it stable again.
To be clear, the lady in question did not say that she had no experience. She claimed over ten years of experience as a "slave" as I understand the term. My reference to the inexperienced was a very abbreviated nod to the problem you've described so well.
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ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed
Certainly for some this is just a convenient excuse to get out of a situation they did not expect (such as a bad dom). But as of last week the lady in question was -still- trying to convince me to give her yet another chance (#5, I believe), only to be tripped up by her own paranoia and aversion to addressing her issues.
Bob are you sure you aren't a Masochist, cause that sounds like you are being a glutton for punishment?
I hear that from time to time.
I am neither. But love is not love if we are unwilling to make sacrifices for the sake of those we love.
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I Kid. The truth of the matter is you will give her as many chances as you are willing to, eventually you will see that doing the same thing OVER AND OVER expecting a different result is the definition of INSANITY!!
That's a poorly understood truism.
It is true when dealing with mechanical systems. Biological systems are never the same thing twice: they are constantly evolving and developing.
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I think you may want to start setting Boundries for yourself otherwise this is going to end up hurting more than just your feelings. This could cause you to change you outlook on relationships period you might even come to think that this behavior is Necessary or even worse NATURAL for you.
There are two people who need caring for in a relationship and YOU should be ONE of those people.
Such a boundary exists. It has always existed.
What distinguishes me from most others is I am more willing to sacrifice more for the sake of the one I love than most others.
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ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed
It is not like these people are wearing labels on their chests.
There are times when the fickle, the flighty, and the fearful represent as many "sub" listings as the number of women "seeking dominant men" whose profiles say "I'm taken, why do men assume otherwise?".
The thing is, a lot of women have had traumatic events, and would benefit from a sensitive man who is patient and understanding. But to know which ones will benefit from those who are too far gone often requires involvement.
Or is it your opinion any woman who has -ever- been raped should be shunned by all men because she will obviously have issues and no man should waste his time helping her achieve her dream of loving and being loved?
I know this question isn't to me but GOD did I want to answer it.
No they should NOT be shunned, However that are not to be catigorized as REGULAR women either.
Assuming I understand your definition for "regular", I assume anyone involved in bdsm should not be categorized as "regular" too 
They are, however, individual human beings and as such are as deserving of compassion as anyone else.
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One needs to ask themselves if they really have what it takes to actually be involved with someone who has been raped. I know that I am willing to work things out but I certainly don't allow myself to be swept away with one who has been raped and is open about it. Sure some keep it a secret and you find out later but truth be told when you know in advance you move at thier speed and if you can't do that save both of you some time and just walk away.
There is nothing to work with when they panic and run, Steel.
Nothing to work with when they dismantle the person you fell in love with and turn the parts into someone you'd never permit into your life.
I am willing to accept responsibility for my decisions, but I will not accept the responsibility for the decisions of another.
Any healthy relationship requires the cooperation of all participants. the failure of one to cooperate is the failure of the relationship.
< Message edited by Loveisallyouneed -- 4/19/2008 10:37:38 AM >
_____________________________
When all is said and done, what will you regret?
That you never really lived?
Or there was so much living left to do?
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RE: another jaded sub - 
Profile
) Many of us don't use the "On your knees, bitch!" approach, instead doing exactly what you're looking for...getting to know a submissive before playing or demanding she take a collar. 
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