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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 4:02:57 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
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Status: offline 		Some of us who aren't quite so jaded don't believe the law should be made into an easy tool of an ideological government.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

As for the application of the law, well prosecutor’s only ever aim to make examples of people so it doesn’t really matter if it is indiscriminate it just depends if you share the same politics as the current government or not.

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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 4:16:41 PM   
FullCircle


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Status: offline 		All laws are political in one way or another, the CPS will say for example: Violent crime is up but we are not getting enough prosecutions for it. So the question isn't even guilt or innocence anymore but a balance sheet of how many prosecutions compared with number of reported crimes. If people aren’t being successfully found guilty they tinker with the system to tip the balance and please the politicians that put pressure on them.

Sad but true.

What better way to assure people a law isn't aimed solely at Muslims than to prosecute people that spout anti Muslim crap with it? You need not fear this law as an individual because you are not high profile enough for anyone to listen to the things you say. 

(edit: of = or)

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 4/19/2008 4:52:20 PM >

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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 4:18:38 PM   
Level


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Status: offline 		Or do away with a faulty law alltogether?

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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 4:26:54 PM   
FullCircle


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Status: offline 		The problem is laws are never really dropped unless there is real pressure to do so. People are far too happy to let government control more and more of their lives. It's the old give an inch and they take a mile situation. Also no one really thinks about these laws until they start becoming effected by them and by that time they can't demonstrate in parliament square about them because that is illegal now. The one place you would historically be expected to voice your concern and you can't.

That is the worse law for me the no demonstrating in parliament one. You can easily say it is to protect government from direct action terrorist groups but the real reason is they want to insulate themselves from those that hate them. That way they can believe they are popular and there is no reason for them to ever doubt it.


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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 4:32:09 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

It's the old give an inch and they take a mile situation. Also no one really thinks about these laws until they start becoming effected by them and by that time they can't demonstrate in parliament square about them because that is illegal now.


That's one reason so many of us are quite... ardent..... about these things.

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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 4:34:03 PM   
AMaster


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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 4:34:56 PM   
FullCircle


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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 4:50:16 PM   
seeksfemslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
...that's the problem with hateful speech: it uses the fora of freedom of speech in order to restrict the liberty of those it doesn't deem worthy of so much liberty. It's difficult for Americans to understand this concept of hateful speech, because of the first amendment - but what can you do? ...
Kitten allowing people to express their opinions never has and never will restrict anybodys liberty.It is action that will do that... not speech.

What we are experiencing today is authoritarianism under the guise of  good intentions.In other words I will protect his feelings by limiting her freedom to express itself.
This is the mindset of the Fascist thoughout the ages be they the Church  the Communist dictator or PC thinker.
Look at the abuse that George Bush has to endure.Same with Maggie Thatcher and BB from YOU
Live up to your own standards gal, is that too much to ask ?
.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 4/19/2008 5:50:17 PM >

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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 5:07:33 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkeyontuesday

I think it's terrible, to be sure. Can't we all just get along?



I wish we could - but first, we have to question whether we can tolerate intolerance if the intolerance in question will infringe on our liberties. That's the problem with hateful speech: it uses the fora of freedom of speech in order to restrict the liberty of those it doesn't deem worthy of so much liberty. It's difficult for Americans to understand this concept of hateful speech, because of the first amendment - but what can you do? It's a different continent after all.


KittinSol, are you sure you really want to live in the U.S.?
We believe in the individual not so much the collective.
And Free Speech and the right to keep and bare arms arms are the bedrocks of our country.
I don't agree with a lot that you have to say but you have the right to say it in the U.S.
And if a group of people are a bunch of scumbags what's wrong with saying that?
What do they do in Europe, make believe they "aren't" scumbags?
That kind of thinking's gotten Europe in a lot of trouble in the past.

The last time I checked, "offending" someone isn't against the law in the U.S.
If it is in Europe then they're fucked.
Maybe we should send Fwance back that statue of liberty, it's sounds like they need to borrow it for a bit.
Maybe the site of it will shame the people who would come up with "laws" like this.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 4/19/2008 5:41:57 PM >

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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 5:51:38 PM   
seeksfemslave


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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 6:25:03 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkeyontuesday

I think it's terrible, to be sure. Can't we all just get along?



I wish we could - but first, we have to question whether we can tolerate intolerance if the intolerance in question will infringe on our liberties. That's the problem with hateful speech: it uses the fora of freedom of speech in order to restrict the liberty of those it doesn't deem worthy of so much liberty. It's difficult for Americans to understand this concept of hateful speech, because of the first amendment - but what can you do? It's a different continent after all.


KittinSol, are you sure you really want to live in the U.S.?
We believe in the individual not so much the collective.
And Free Speech and the right to keep and bare arms arms are the bedrocks of our country.
I don't agree with a lot that you have to say but you have the right to say it in the U.S.
And if a group of people are a bunch of scumbags what's wrong with saying that?
What do they do in Europe, make believe they "aren't" scumbags?
That kind of thinking's gotten Europe in a lot of trouble in the past.

The last time I checked, "offending" someone isn't against the law in the U.S.
If it is in Europe then they're fucked.
Maybe we should send Fwance back that statue of liberty, it's sounds like they need to borrow it for a bit.
Maybe the site of it will shame the people who would come up with "laws" like this.


OH, I totally agree on this one.
Let's see, Easter was a few weeks ago.
On THIS very board, certain unnamed people, made a total mockery of MY Christian beliefs.
They laughed, called him names, made obscene jokes, and thought it was real cute.
I did not find it cute at all, maybe you are NOT a Christian and maybe you do NOT believe in Christ,
but I found what many said here extremely offense.
Guess what?
They have the RIGHT to write those things on a message board in America.
THAT is how it is, and guess what?
I STILL believe in free speech, and I will not attempt to silence those that I don't agree with.
Free Speech means guess what?  Free fucking speech.  It is not a tool that only certain people
can use.
What if the F.B.I wanted to round up those that were trashing my Lord a few weeks ago?
I bet you would have an issue with that, now wouldn't you?

We can not pick and choose what people say, and only persecute those that we don't agree with.
sorry, pot, kettle, fucking black if you dare run down anyone and can't fucking take it yourself!

< Message edited by MzMia -- 4/19/2008 6:27:16 PM >

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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 6:35:22 PM   
FullCircle


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Status: offline 		I think there is a difference between mocking someone and spreading manipulative fear. Besides Jesus don't care because he don't exist whereas Muslim immigrants do.

I'm not a strong supporter of these laws as I've already said but to compare attacking Muslim immigrants, which could then lead to persecution of those immigrants, with mocking a fictitious deity, which leads to the persecution of no one, is a bit disingenuous.


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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 6:38:15 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

I think there is a difference between mocking someone and spreading manipulative fear. Besides Jesus don't care because he don't exist whereas Muslim immigrants do.

I'm not a strong supporter of these laws as I've already said but to compare attacking Muslim immigrants, which could then lead to persecution of those immigrants, with mocking a fictitious deity, which leads to the persecution of no one, is a bit disingenuous.



Excuse fucking me?
Jesus for many believers is the son of GOD, and part of the Holy Trinity.
If you deny the son, you deny the father.

Are you saying it is okay to mock someone else's religion and  Jesus, the Bible and  GOD?
Wait a minute, excuse me?
pot fucking kettle black?
please, I refuse to even really get started here.
IF you trash my GOD, and my religion, I can trash you and all you believe in.
Please, I am going to step back and catch myself.
Before I go off.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 4/19/2008 6:41:03 PM >

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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 6:40:58 PM   
FullCircle


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Status: offline 		Poor you are you going to be the victim of violence because someone says something nasty about your god?

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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 6:43:43 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Poor you are you going to be the victim of violence because someone says something nasty about your god?


lol
 
pot, kettle, black

Pick and choose what we can trash and those we can defend.
Pick up a history book and study religious persecutions through the years.
It all started SOMEWHERE, maybe it started with people like YOU trashing
someone else's beliefs!
Next came Hitler
See ya
Peace
 

< Message edited by MzMia -- 4/19/2008 6:44:46 PM >

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Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
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What's your favorite fetish?
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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 6:45:55 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
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Status: offline 		While I am not a Christian there is no doubt whatsoever that Christians, especially in Europe,  have to endure abuse that is just  not applied to others.

In fact when I have made criticisms of black Africa some who are quite likely to make derogatory remarks about Christianity have called me a bigot.. . Odd that.

We see the same double standard on this thread, KittenSol using hate speech and at the same time complaining about the use of.......hate speech.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 4/19/2008 6:49:05 PM >

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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 6:47:41 PM   
FullCircle


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Status: offline 		No it is far more likely to have been started by those that have a stake in proving their Dog is the one true Dog. You also seem to be under the impression that Hitler was secular?

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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 6:51:53 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

While I am not a Christian there is no doubt whatsoever that Christians, especially in Europe,  have to endure abuse that is just  not applied to others.

In fact when I have made criticisms of black Africa some who are quite likely to make derogatory remarks about Christianity have called me a bigot.. . Odd that.

We see the same double standard on this thread, KittenSol using hate speech and at the same time complaining about the use of.......hate speech.


Hate speech?
One day Christians
One day Jesus
One day Blacks
One day Chinese
One day short people
One day tall people
One day, the mentally retarded
One day, the elderly
One day Jews
One day Homosexuals
One day, those that are into BDSM
One day Muslims
Let's see?

Oh my!

POT KETTLE BLACK!

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To Each His/Her Own
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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 6:55:19 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

While I am not a Christian there is no doubt whatsoever that Christians, especially in Europe,  have to endure abuse that is just is not applied to others.

In fact when I have made criticisms of black Africa some who are quite likely to make derogatory remarks about Christianity have called me a bigot.. . Odd that.

We see it on this thread, KittenSol using hate speech and at the same time complaining about.......hate speech.


You know I never thought of that.  I know there are a few Christian fundamentalists in Europe.  I seem to recall a lesson in history about the Nazis trying to exterminate all Jehovah's Witnesses.  So if I am living in France and I come out and say that people who don't believe in evolution are complete morons (something I say all the time.), should I be prosecuted for comitting a hate crime?  Are only blacks, Muslims, Jews, Gypsies, Gays, etc protected under hate crime laws? 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 4/19/2008 6:56:49 PM >

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RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs - 4/19/2008 7:02:21 PM   
FullCircle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
You know I never thought of that.  I know there are a few Christian fundamentalists in Europe.  I seem to recall a lesson in history about the Nazis trying to exterminate all Jehovah's Witnesses.  So if I am living in France and I come out and say that people who don't believe in evolution are complete morons (something I say all the time.), should I be prosecuted for comitting a hate crime?  Are only blacks, Muslims, Jews, Gypsies, Gays, etc protected under hate crime laws? 


The minority must be protected for the simple fact they are the more vulnerable members of society. Why is this so confusing? Ignorant people walk around attacking minorities all the time just because they are different, based on the fact some high profile figure stoked up the fires of hatred.

Besides calling someone a moron isn't quite the same as saying 'People that don't believe in evolution are dangerous and will be the end of all we hold dear.'

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 4/19/2008 7:07:17 PM >

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