ElanSubdued
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This thread just keeps bringing the love. Thanks to everyone (again) for contributing. I'll add more thoughts about the replies.
quote:
AtlantaMistress:
Ok - drop the "who's your daddy line" but the slapping the ass part can be all good! Hell... you can even pull my hair. In fact, if I told you I like when you said it... then even that would be ok!
At the beginning of my relationship with my boy, I always initiated... and in fact, I believe it was a forum topic that led to the discussion where I told him he did not need to wait for me to initiate. As many others have said, being a Domme does not mean that you don't like to feel like you are desired, and if you are always making the first move, it can diminish that feeling. As for the spanking or anything "rough"... at some point, I was able to tell him that I actually liked it (only from him though - anyone else would be severely punished!) and as far as I am concerned, if he is doing something that he knows pleases me, it does not take away from my Dominance. I love the idea of a man wanting me so bad that he just wants to "take me". I also know that I am going along with it, and at any moment I could say no (or even - convince me... which can be fun) without any hesitation or worry that I am not "pleasing him" since he is happy when I am getting what I want. he has some very particular fetishes that I totally get into. I love to make his fantasies come true, knowing that I am his "dream girl" is a huge thing for me. I never feel like by doing what he wants to please him I am giving up any power. My fantasy has always been to just be totally loved and adored, truly worshipped... he does that for me!
Mistress Sandy, thanks for getting to the bottom (who me, a punster? :-) of one of the things I'm talking about. It's the emotion of "wanting to show my Domina how much I adore her" that brings about my wanting to just "take her". You've described this feeling, from a reciprocal perspective, exactly as I experience it. Of course, if this isn't pleasurable for the Domina and something she wants, I see little point. I suppose, somewhat naively, I wondered how many Dominant woman enjoy this and feel as you do. If this thread is any kind of statistically valid sampling, apparently a great many. :-)
Like your boy may have been feeling, I'm cautious about initiating sex and being too aggressive. The irony is that I've never felt this way with vanilla partners or with submissive partners. This is just a momentary, mental block that I'm sure I'll get over. Thanks again for your post.
quote:
rubberpet:
I'm certainly not hesitant to initiate something with Mistress, nor am I hesitant to show Her how much I desire Her. After all, what woman doesn't like to feel desired or hungered for? Sometimes She initiates it, other times I initiate it. It doesn't make me less submissive to show Her that kind of interest, it simply makes me human. I'll brush against Her arm, gently stroke Her hair, lightly caress Her hand, or slap Her sexy ass. None of that is more telling than the look I get in my eyes when I feast on Her beauty. I don't know what I did to deserve Her, but I'm soooooooo glad I did it!
There will be times where we make love to candlelight, soft music, and satin sheets. There will also be times that it'll involve rubber, bondage, hoods, gags, strap-ons, biting, scratching, and loads of animalistic pounding. As long as there is love and respect in it, that's all that matters to us.
You two scratching and animalisticly pounding in rubber? Surly you jest! This just *doesn't* sound like either of you. Being *just a little bit* more serious now... what you described is a very organic approach. It's odd. As I was driving today, I thought more about this thread and about fucking in general. Yes. I know. Me thinking such thoughts. It's hard to imagine. :-)
It seems to me that sexual intimacy and sexual validation have little to do with BDSM. Sure, these function within BDSM and the currents of power exchange provide a wonderful tapestry of opportunity for seduction and upping the B/D, D/S, S/M and sexual antes. But in the end, I think people are sexual, affectionate creatures and we like being desired touched, caressed, kissed, and made love to. Sometimes it's nice to be the aggressor, but other times it's nice to be pampered. And, of course, both of these often happen and interchange between partners. I've seen elements of this in almost every response and especially in yours. *smiles* This is seemingly a case of me over complicating things. I may be submissive, but this doesn't change the fact that I like to make love to my partner and to be made love to by her. Likewise, a Domina is still a woman who likes to be desired, to make love, to be made love to... albeit, usually, all of these things on *her* terms, as it *should* be. :-)
Side note: those know me well will recognize my sarcasm. I'm generally quite egalitarian about things so while I certainly acknowledge my Domina's leadership and authority, I still believe a relationship (and making love) is about people mutually enjoying and enriching one another.
quote:
ocilla:
...and dare I say love?
Yes, you may. Truly. I give you permission. :-)
quote:
ocilla:
I kinda like it when my fella gets all carried away too. I say go for it and then beg for forgiveness later if need be. My last lover and I had some really intense moments when he was being anything but subby that surprised us both and then because of our emotional connection made everything more of a turn on. And of course you can always talk about it later and give feedback then if need be.
"...go for it and then beg for forgiveness later if need be." Yes, yes. *takes notes*
quote:
Vigilantejustice:
Oh, and by the way, next time you feel compelled to say "good girl" to an orgasming Domina, try translating it to "Oh, <honorific>, you are so beautiful when you cum!" (or her preferred term for orgasming). It shows appreciation for the act, while still being fairly reverent to the dynamic.
Corinne, thank you for writing what should have been so obvious to me, but just wasn't. I really appreciate your posting this because it is a great help. You opened a doorway of communication that I was having great trouble figuring out on my own. Yes, I will ask my Domina her preferences, but you have given me a great starting place. Thank you. :-)
quote:
DominantJenny:
As has been said, everyone is different. I very, very rarely want that kind of aggression from my partner... and I, too, am more than happy to hear "Mistress, may I fuck you?". On those occasions when he tries to initiate very aggressive behaviors, I communicate pretty clearly through either body language or words as to whether it's a good idea at the moment. Sometimes, I like to turn it on its head, too.
You talk about both this aggressive kind of seduction and a very "gentlemanly" sort of seduction. I understand that it may just not be your thing, but I'd encourage you to explore the possibilities in "submissive but not passive" demonstrations of desire like assuming vulnerable positions and reaching out from them with your mouth, arms, and *ahem* other parts, for example. I'm not wording it as well as I could, sorry. Long day. :)
Dominant Jenny, while you may not feel so, I think you expressed yourself extremely clearly and well, especially your description of "submissive but not passive demonstrations of desire". This is something new to me and I'll need to work on it a bit. To me, there is a certain romance and respect in the way you noted "assuming vulnerable positions". This sounds yummy and yet another doorway for communicating affection to my partner. I'll have to let this percolate into reality. Thank you. And gee, yet another thumbs up vote for "Mistress, may I fuck you". In the right context, there seems to be a unanimous, Dommely, positive response to this approach. I never would have thought this so I've learned a great deal from everyone.
After reading this thread, thinking about the phrase "Mistress, may I fuck you" is rather sexy. I mean, it's respectful, yet passionately, deliciously vulgar; it communicates great affection and desire; it asks for permission; and, given the context in which we're all talking about, it is a huge compliment to a Domina. Yes. I'm beginning to see the attraction here. :-)
quote:
vampchick88:
I've learned that with pet my heart is in everything that I do. I have to agree with his post, he's right. he constantly makes himself available knowing that he will be taken without notice and sometimes pushes this nymphs buttons in the right way to get me started. I might not know much but I love a man who knows what he's doing in bed, tied up or otherwise. :-)
Lorelei, this is so beautifully romantic that I decided to quote you. Just because. I'm really happy, for both you and rubberpet, that your relationship is going so well.
quote:
ElanSubdued:
I'm expecting the Red Sea to part and close with great vengeance upon this topic. :-)
undergroundsea:
I do indeed have an opinion about the matter and I am happy to contribute to your thread. But what's up with calling me a communist?
;-)
I cannot easily imagine myself saying, "<chosen title>, I want to fuck" in a subservient tone. It is not consistent with my style. I lean towards an organic approach and I lean more towards using looks, smiles, and flirtatious playfulness. My approach and interest lie more in activities that fall under foreplay (you know, brushing teeth... and then sorting the recycling... wait, that's not foreplay... but it's very important*). If I were interested to suggest intercourse, to say, "let's fuck," and then start the foreplay does not seem organic enough for my taste. The organic approach, however, requires the ability to read one's partner and see if such initiation would be welcomed.
If I were to utter those exact words above, it would likely be in a playful tone. In fact, I am more likely to use a more playful choice of words. For instance, let's suppose I am courting someone with whom conversations have revealed that she does not have sex with someone unless he takes her to dinner. Let's suppose further in time I would like to suggest sex. Rather than saying, "I want to have sex with you," I am more likely to say, with the right smile and eye contact, "so... I want to take you out to dinner."
I think the relationship dynamic is relevant. For a relationship with a more formal dynamic, I have a harder time imagining myself initiating intimacy. In a more formal dynamic, I don't think I would initiate. The context of my response is more towards a romantic BDSM relationship. In such a dynamic, I think it's entirely possible for a sub to initiate intimacy in a manner that fits within the dynamic. I can also imagine that a couple might switch to a non-D/s, romantic lovers dynamic (just two persons showing their passion or affection for each other without overt or significant power dynamics) within whatever broader dynamic they observe.
Sea, I must admit, I'm a *little* slow today. It took me quite a while to figure out your "communist" reference. Yes, as you can see from this thread, sometimes the obvious does pass me by. :-)
Your delineation between more formal dynamics and romantic dynamics is interesting because, to me, a more formal relationship *is* a romantic relationship! I think what you mean by "formal" though is a relationship that is more service-oriented. Yes/no? Not that romantic, BDSM relationships can't include strong, service dynamics too, but in this case I think you mean a Domina you are serving where service, pampering, and perhaps even flirting and sex are part of the relationship and mutually enjoyed, but not necessarily with the intent of building a romantic bond. (Please excuse me if I'm misinterpreting your thoughts here.) I can certainly understand, under these circumstances, why a submissive initiating sex would break the dynamics and possibly come across disrespectfully too.
When quoting the (now) popular mascot of the thread, you changed the words slightly and this, in my opinion, has a huge impact on the message being communicated. The words "<chosen title>, I want to fuck", regardless of whether said with a tone of subservience or not, are demanding. The actual mascot is: "<chosen title>, may I fuck you" or "Darling, you look and smell so delicious, I'd like to fuck you". (Note, in the latter case, the "may I" is implied.) I think the distinction here is an important one. These latter phrases are not demands, but rather loving words of affection and desire. They also, I've learned from this thread, support the underlying BDSM dynamics because they defer to the Domina for a decision (even if her response is nothing more than an organic moan and thrust of the hips, indicating "yes, please take me"). In other words, everything still happens on the Domina's terms. Hopefully the Domina responds with both her own and her partner's needs in mind, although, I'll admit, it's hot, on occasion, when a Domina just takes what she wants with no concern for my needs or desires whatsoever. The key, balancing operand in my last sentence is the phrase "on occasion". Certainly, were my partner never to acknowledge or address my desires, the dynamics would feel very one-sided and it's not likely the relationship could last this way.
I love your approach to what I call "extended foreplay". Here, I'm referring to your notion "rather than saying, 'I want to have sex with you', I am more likely to say, with the right smile and eye contact, 'so... I want to take you out to dinner' ". I know you don't mean every time you take this person out to dinner (or do something you know she likes), that you expect sex from her. What you're talking about is playful, mutually acknowledged, extended seduction. This is my favourite way to make love. The love making starts long before any sexual acts occur and indeed, the love making may occur with no sexual acts at all. :-)
Thanks for your thoughts Sea.
quote:
MsLilac:
I would personally find it very boring if I were to initiate vanilla sex all the time. I like to feel desired by my slave, just as any person would want to feel desired. The way my slave will seduce me when he is in the mood for initiating passionate sex, is to start slow, just to tentatively test the waters, so to speak. Maybe by using a gesture, a word, a look, a touch, a caress, a kiss, etc. I would personally never appreciate being taken roughly out of the blue, and anyone trying it will end up with sore bollocks.
When he sees that I am responsive, he will test the waters a little further, the direction it goes from there depends on my response to him, and that will depend on my mood at the time. I have little cues so he knows what direction to take. When he gets a ‘green light’, he knows it’s ok to take a more aggressive/passionate approach he desires, and it’s full steam ahead.
The way this isn’t him topping is that we talked about this at the beginning of our relationship, and we touch base a lot. I set the parameters (can a conversation about sex using the word parameters ever be possible? LMAO). Anyway, one of those things is he is allowed to seduce me and make the first move when the mood takes him, but to tread lightly at first and see how I respond (and obviously use this leeway appropriately, like not trying it on when I‘m in bad mood). Hard, passionate seduction is something I desire from him in certain moods.
I know the vocal thing can ruin the mood for some, but I find it quite enjoyable at certain moments. When we are in the mood for the whole aggressive-passionate thing, sometimes I find it very sexy when we have become all worked up, ripping each others clothes off, spending hours adoring each other, teasing each other. Then upon the point of entry, he will whisper gently in my ear, graphically seeking permission to fuck me hard. I find that hot, and it re-enforces the desire, as well as the dynamic at the same time.
Ms. Lilac, I found your entire post very helpful and I love the denouement (i.e. the last paragraph). You've answered my question vis-a-vis "is it acceptable to test the waters"? Of course, this all depends on the partners and the negotiations involved, but I think, organically, intuitively, even without negotiation, this is one of the ways people learn about one another - test the waters and observe the response. Thanks for this peek into the sexual dynamics of your own relationship.
quote:
darchChylde:
i recommend the liberal use of an electric egg-beater.
DominantJenny:
*sigh* *hangs head* Okay, I give up, I don't get it...
It's just a joke. No actual eggs or people were harmed. :-)
quote:
PassionateFox:
I agree that dominance is about having choice and how you make love to your Domme is how she likes that with you. I make it clear what my preferences are before the situation arises.
I tend to discuss preferences with my Domina beforehand too, but it's not always possible (or desirable) to cover all the bases. Actually, it would be no fun at all if one did! *Real time* discovery is it's own nirvana. :-) I agree with you that dominance involves having choice and part of that choice is how you like to be made love to. However, not meaning to be rude or to challenge your post, it's actually, in my opinion, about how all partners like making love. Ah, I can hear the magic words "mutual compatibility" ringing in my ears!
quote:
MisPandora:
Being a communicator who practices and expects radical honesty in all that we do, I would have no problem with him passionately growling to me his desires. I'm also secure in my place with my submissive/partner where he CAN initiate. Why not? It shows that he desires me, and I find that flattering. I also enjoy making him so crazy that he cannot control himself.
But then again, I can't say I've had many guys outside of SM say, "Wanna fuck?" like that... things usually just happen without such a crude exchange of words!
Okay. So what you're actually saying is that the SM guys *always* ask you "Wanna fuck"? Hmmm. Interesting. :-)
*more serious now*
This connects with me and helps me understand your internal feelings about your partner initiating: "I'm also secure in my place with my submissive/partner where he CAN initiate. Why not? It shows that he desires me, and I find that flattering. I also enjoy making him so crazy that he cannot control himself." Thank you Miss Pandora.
Elan.
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RE: Making love to a Domina - how does a sub do this? - 
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