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RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism - 4/25/2008 7:20:26 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

this is the only thing that I will add to the topic....A conservative friend of mine, runs a financial planning firm, simply thinks if you believe you can it will happen...Everything is equal..."Blacks should just tough it out."

We then asked if he received a resume from Jamal Washington if he would call him in for an interview....It was the end of the conversation...Or he might have said something cute like "touche."

Juss saying. I know first hand that things are different...I don't have the first idea what it takes to solve the problems of others...I need to concentrate on myself. I know that the schools that my friend's children on the Northside attend are much different than what is being offered on the Southside....Who cares? If the kids attending the Southside schools believe they will succeed that should be enough.


Indeed.

And some studying...and no drugs....and....etc.

(I believe you've got it).

Good Job.


< Message edited by Griswold -- 4/25/2008 7:36:41 PM >

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism - 4/25/2008 7:36:42 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

this is the only thing that I will add to the topic....A conservative friend of mine, runs a financial planning firm, simply thinks if you believe you can it will happen...Everything is equal..."Blacks should just tough it out."

We then asked if he received a resume from Jamal Washington if he would call him in for an interview....It was the end of the conversation...Or he might have said something cute like "touche."

Juss saying. I know first hand that things are different...I don't have the first idea what it takes to solve the problems of others...I need to concentrate on myself. I know that the schools that my friend's children on the Northside attend are much different than what is being offered on the Southside....Who cares? If the kids attending the Southside schools believe they will succeed that should be enough.


Indeed.

And some studying...and no drugs....etc.

(I believe you've got it).



That wasn't the point I was trying to make.


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RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism - 4/25/2008 7:37:38 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

this is the only thing that I will add to the topic....A conservative friend of mine, runs a financial planning firm, simply thinks if you believe you can it will happen...Everything is equal..."Blacks should just tough it out."

We then asked if he received a resume from Jamal Washington if he would call him in for an interview....It was the end of the conversation...Or he might have said something cute like "touche."

Juss saying. I know first hand that things are different...I don't have the first idea what it takes to solve the problems of others...I need to concentrate on myself. I know that the schools that my friend's children on the Northside attend are much different than what is being offered on the Southside....Who cares? If the kids attending the Southside schools believe they will succeed that should be enough.


Indeed.

And some studying...and no drugs....etc.

(I believe you've got it).



That wasn't the point I was trying to make.



Well, regardless...even without my assistance...you made it remarkably well.

< Message edited by Griswold -- 4/25/2008 7:42:16 PM >

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RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism - 4/25/2008 8:15:06 PM   
heartcream


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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

 lronitulstahp, thanks for your post - I couldn't agree more. I'm so tired of people who are too "diplomatic" to share their reasoning on why proportionately more black people live in poverty than white people.  One thing you can be sure of is that it will include some form of pathologising all black people with a particular characteristic.  This "pathology" is not real and cannot be quantified but it exists in their minds for one reason: it allows them to feel better. So by extension, Cosby's rants allow them to feel better - that's why it got posted, as a result of another thread.

There are certain debates that cannot be held with those who begin them unwilling to accept the truth. Don't feel you have to apologise for any venting, you deserve far more respect than you have received by many represented here and immeasurably more than they will ever receive.  We still live in times when those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know.


Sometimes I have a hard time following the threads, understanding where folks are coming from and not sure when I voice my opinion I come off sounding like an ignorant retard. I also dont freely speak my mind not out of 'diplomacy' but rather because my pov's tend to be more 'out there' than your average bear. It often seems smarter to keep my mouth shut. Given that I will say that I do have an opinion as to why more black people (and a certain kind of white person too) lives in more poverty than white folks.

I do feel we are in essence different tribes of humans. We are meant to be harmonious, live in abundance, strength, beauty, and personal power. The fact that we dont is sickening and so boring how long it has been going on. The characteristic I would attribute more to blacks than most whites is magnetism. I believe black folks are far more magnetic than most white folks.

An example of how this might play out might run something like this: A rich white woman lives in a gated home. She has new age music playing in the background and has all sorts of support in terms of money, position and family protection from the sorts of survival issues lots of poverty stricken folks face on a daily basis.

One day that woman is standing by her beautiful child in the crib and that perfect child is screaming its head off. The woman is really pissed off but she doesnt express it in anyway. She literally shoves it outside of herself because she doesnt "do" rage. That anger fragments off of her and it is taken in by magnetic energy elsewhere. The black woman (or poor white woman) is not able to deflect this sort of thing off of herself. She is not surrounded and upheld in so many ways that the rich woman is. The fragmented rage goes into someone's magnetic field and adds to their already heavy burden. Then the beautiful child of the poor woman cries and that woman is not able to fragment the rage out of herself but she doesnt know how to express it, or deal with it, there is little to no acceptance for that emotion. You might hear her as she tells her child to "Shut the fuck up," or some other 'inappropriate' thing. The finger pointing starts, the rich white woman looks at the black lady as though she is pathetic, as though it has nothing to do with her, as though it is proof of the lack of control black folks have over their emotions. In fact it is the rich woman's crap all over the poorer woman. The ability of upper-chakra spirits to dump them out of themselves.

I am not black, I know. I realize I may not have much right to speak around these issues. The way I see it, if I see around the corners of things, gain any sort of understanding about different dynamics, it is okay to share.

You know, I like to wonder what may have happened if we hadnt spent centuries upon centuries tearing down peoples cultures. It took 400 years to pretty much destroy the Native American culture, which when the European found them was at great heights of beauty and balance, a very unique civilization. What might have happened if Africa and other places had not been submerged into a third world position. I like to imagine the contributions of these other cultures. We are so technologically advanced. If Africa was not third world I do feel it would all be more varied, interesting, colorful, warm and balanced.

< Message edited by heartcream -- 4/25/2008 8:21:21 PM >


_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

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Every single line means something.
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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism - 4/25/2008 9:34:23 PM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:

I am not black, I know. I realize I may not have much right to speak around these issues. The way I see it, if I see around the corners of things, gain any sort of understanding about different dynamics, it is okay to share. 
           well i am not poor...so in your scenario, which seems to be based on the idea that all black women are mentally equivalent to poor(and in a sense uneducated, lower classed white women) how does that scenario play out?  
    This isn't understanding...unless the thing you want me to understand is the stereotype of a black woman in America is so prevalent that it has somehow been deemed "fact".  In that case, it's a damned shame...
    The truth in your post isnt even something you were trying to point out.  It's all about money...not "magnetism."  Poor vs. rich, and somewhere in the middle reeling from all the tugging and shoving, lies the middle class.  But (and trust me heartcream when i say i know you meant no malice...and i am not speaking to you, in particular) i forgot, we live in a classless, raceless society.  The sad part being, it's really MORE about money than color....racism is a diversion; in many cases perpetuated by the powerful to disenfranchise the powerless.  
    Perhaps if i start posting in ebonics, people will think i'm somehow more 'valid' to speak as a black person.  i get that from ALL sides.

< Message edited by lronitulstahp -- 4/25/2008 9:37:11 PM >

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RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism - 4/25/2008 9:53:19 PM   
SugarMyChurro


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Well said, lronitulstahp.

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RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism - 4/25/2008 11:27:56 PM   
heartcream


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No, I am not talking about all the black folks. I am talking about some/if not a lot of the poor black (and some white folks). This is how I have heard it explained to me and I felt it was true. Information that helped me to understand how magnetic energy can get dumped on/blamed/perpetuated. This does go on, a sorry-ass dynamic which is prevalent and wrong in my opinion. I dont think all poor people are stupid. Education doesnt only come from within the classroom does it? I dont think all school educated people are smart either. The fact of the matter is what, like 90% of us are poor--fact. I would love to know that most black women were not poor, I would love to know most women on the planet were not poor but they are. There are no rungs to get from poor to middle-class to upper-class like there used to be. Folks being poor is not only a stereo-type, it is the sad reality we have going on our glorious planet right now.

Money itself is not the problem either, it is the muh-fuhs behind it, unloving essence that predominately shows up in the form of white men. ( I dont believe all rich white men are evil.)

In my opinion magnetism is real--fundamentally far more real than money. The fact that it is a 'problem' is not the natural state of affairs, not the way ultimately it is meant to be.

< Message edited by heartcream -- 4/26/2008 12:26:01 AM >


_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat



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RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism - 4/26/2008 4:21:51 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

   Perhaps if i start posting in ebonics, people will think i'm somehow more 'valid' to speak as a black person.  i get that from ALL sides.


http://joel.net/EBONICS/translator.asp



_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to lronitulstahp)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism - 4/26/2008 4:22:35 AM   
RealityLicks


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lronitulstahp - feeling's mutual, princess.

As far as shutting down debate is concerned, one minute self-reliance is being urged and the next, everyone is entitled to their say. Which is it?

In my view, matters of public policy are always up for debate but for most others I listen only to those who are able to speak from experience or at least from demonstrable education and enlightenment. 

heartcream - are "upper chakra spirits" colour-coded in your belief system, with melanin levels deciding how spiritually able one is to handle life's challenges?  India's Dalit community might just have some important input into that debate.

(in reply to lronitulstahp)
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RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism - 4/26/2008 4:53:05 AM   
FullCircle


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Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream
One day that woman is standing by her beautiful child in the crib and that perfect child is screaming its head off. The woman is really pissed off but she doesnt express it in anyway. She literally shoves it outside of herself because she doesnt "do" rage. That anger fragments off of her and it is taken in by magnetic energy elsewhere. The black woman (or poor white woman) is not able to deflect this sort of thing off of herself. She is not surrounded and upheld in so many ways that the rich woman is. The fragmented rage goes into someone's magnetic field and adds to their already heavy burden. Then the beautiful child of the poor woman cries and that woman is not able to fragment the rage out of herself but she doesnt know how to express it, or deal with it, there is little to no acceptance for that emotion. You might hear her as she tells her child to "Shut the fuck up," or some other 'inappropriate' thing. The finger pointing starts, the rich white woman looks at the black lady as though she is pathetic, as though it has nothing to do with her, as though it is proof of the lack of control black folks have over their emotions. In fact it is the rich woman's crap all over the poorer woman. The ability of upper-chakra spirits to dump them out of themselves.


I've only just read this to see what all the fuss is about and I can't remember the last time I laughed so much. Thanks. Obviously I can't prove in a definitive way that you are wrong but only that logic dictates killing all the middleclass women that can't express their emotions would obviously make life better for the black community.

I'm sorry I didn't mean to laugh at your ideas it's just I'm addicted to calpol, especially the cherry flavour, and it has it's obvious side effects. It's your fault I'm laughing at you because you failed to laugh earlier when you saw someone fall over and I'm a magnetic for errm slapstick.

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ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

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RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism - 4/26/2008 5:02:40 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

I am not black, I know. I realize I may not have much right to speak around these issues. The way I see it, if I see around the corners of things, gain any sort of understanding about different dynamics, it is okay to share. 
           well i am not poor...so in your scenario, which seems to be based on the idea that all black women are mentally equivalent to poor(and in a sense uneducated, lower classed white women) how does that scenario play out?  
  This isn't understanding...unless the thing you want me to understand is the stereotype of a black woman in America is so prevalent that it has somehow been deemed "fact".  In that case, it's a damned shame...
  The truth in your post isn't even something you were trying to point out.  It's all about money...not "magnetism."  Poor vs. rich, and somewhere in the middle reeling from all the tugging and shoving, lies the middle class.  But (and trust me heartcream when i say i know you meant no malice...and i am not speaking to you, in particular) i forgot, we live in a classless, raceless society.  The sad part being, it's really MORE about money than color....racism is a diversion; in many cases perpetuated by the powerful to disenfranchise the powerless.  
  Perhaps if i start posting in ebonics, people will think i'm somehow more 'valid' to speak as a black person.  i get that from ALL sides.


You darling do not have to do any such thing but to continue to be the outstanding role model that you are. If you went to lecture to a group of young adults who are black, they would listen. I work at a medical vocational school where 95% are black. they are trying to better themselves in order to get better jobs. a few are young and there for the wrong reasons........pleasing a parent who say its that or get kicked out of the house and yes the occasional just wanting child care or a reason to stay on welfare and they cant stay on without pretending to go to school. But most are there to better themselves. Sure, many didn't think that they actually had to study as hard or show up all the time, but the majority do put in the effort eventually.

I am always trying to correct their language or tell them to please say it in proper English. do I fault them for their language? No. Its colorful and rich in so many ways(even if i don't understand half of it), But I explain that if you want to work with professionals and white collar people, you need to speak to everyone and unfortunately many people will have a negative opinion of you if you speak slang. Also, you want to communicate effectively with people and be able to be clear.

the problem with people who grew up using neighborhood slang is not lack of intelligence. Its being able to know when its not appropriate to speak that way and when it isn't. As we have seen with people who swear every other word, some people cant turn off the curse words when they should. The same goes for Ebonics.

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 4/26/2008 5:04:16 AM >


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RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism - 4/26/2008 6:04:28 AM   
lronitulstahp


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you have mail sista

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RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism - 4/26/2008 6:10:52 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

. Also, you want to communicate effectively with people and be able to be clear.



Fer shizzle.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism - 4/26/2008 11:41:02 AM   
heartcream


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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

lronitulstahp - feeling's mutual, princess.

As far as shutting down debate is concerned, one minute self-reliance is being urged and the next, everyone is entitled to their say. Which is it?

In my view, matters of public policy are always up for debate but for most others I listen only to those who are able to speak from experience or at least from demonstrable education and enlightenment. 

heartcream - are "upper chakra spirits" colour-coded in your belief system, with melanin levels deciding how spiritually able one is to handle life's challenges?  India's Dalit community might just have some important input into that debate.


No, upper chakra peeps come in all shapes, colors and sizes, even black.

< Message edited by heartcream -- 4/26/2008 11:52:44 AM >


_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat



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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism - 4/26/2008 11:46:55 AM   
heartcream


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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
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quote:

It's your fault I'm laughing at you because you failed to laugh earlier when you saw someone fall over and I'm a magnetic for errm slapstick.




< Message edited by heartcream -- 4/26/2008 11:53:32 AM >


_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat



(in reply to heartcream)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism - 4/26/2008 2:24:02 PM   
heartcream


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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
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I will add that I am not defining people as either upper/middle or lower chakra. It is more like a polarization. In the same way you can note in folks a tendency to be rage polarized, or fear polarized, for example. It is not a balanced way to be but how it has played out pretty much so far in our word. I do feel it will all balance out eventually.

_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat



(in reply to heartcream)
Profile   Post #: 96
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