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St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 3:27:12 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Since its St George's Day. St. George being the patron saint of England for those that don't know.

England is not recognized as a country in any international forum. I think it is the only nation in the EU that is not recognized as a nation. It doesn't have a political identity within the UK unlike the other home nations. The only place England is recognized as a nation is on the sports field and by the English tourist board.

So I'm asking the English on CM (and anyone else that wants to chip in), is it time for England to have its own Parliament and become politically recognized as a nation?

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 3:29:36 AM   
Level


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Status: offline 		Why isn't it a nation, I wonder?

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 3:42:22 AM   
NorthernGent


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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Since its St George's Day. St. George being the patron saint of England for those that don't know.

England is not recognized as a country in any international forum. I think it is the only nation in the EU that is not recognized as a nation. It doesn't have a political identity within the UK unlike the other home nations. The only place England is recognized as a nation is on the sports field and by the English tourist board.

So I'm asking the English on CM (and anyone else that wants to chip in), is it time for England to have its own Parliament and become politically recognized as a nation?



By all accounts, George was a Turk.....which is pretty appropriate for us considering our penchant for irony.

Whether or not some bloke in Brussels recognises England as a nation, is immaterial.

Granted, we have a few Scottish MPs with voting powers in English matters - a token offering aimed at appealing to their pride.

The people who matter in this regard, i.e. the English, understand that we are a unique people with a distinct culture and tradition. In fact, we're one of the most recognisable people on this planet: in our manner, appearance and attitude.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 3:52:14 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Why isn't it a nation, I wonder?


During the creation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain it was deemed appropriate by the ruling classes who wanted to impose the idea of Britishness, that the constituent parts of the UK should have their identity suppressed and the identity of Britishness encouraged. The Irish always rejected this idea, as did the Scots. The Welsh were more complient and the English being the biggest part of the UK, totally complient.

Since then, the Irish have gained independence, the Scots are now semi-detached and the Welsh becoming more detached. The only way government can keep the UK together is to try and suppress an English political entity because that would cause the break up of the UK because it is far and away the biggest part.

England doesn't have a political identity in Europe because the British government doesn't want an English nation politically recognised in Europe for similar reasons that I have mentioned above.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 3:54:04 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Since its St George's Day. St. George being the patron saint of England for those that don't know.

England is not recognized as a country in any international forum. I think it is the only nation in the EU that is not recognized as a nation. It doesn't have a political identity within the UK unlike the other home nations. The only place England is recognized as a nation is on the sports field and by the English tourist board.

So I'm asking the English on CM (and anyone else that wants to chip in), is it time for England to have its own Parliament and become politically recognized as a nation?




Whether or not some bloke in Brussels recognises England as a nation, is immaterial.


It is the British government that doesn't want the EU to recognize the English as a nation because the British government would have to give the English rights as a nation the British government doesn't want the English to have.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 3:57:29 AM   
TJsCheekypet


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Joined: 4/18/2008
Status: offline 		i am British (i say British because i believe i am, coming from Great Britain gives me that right!))& although i grew up in the United States i am still very proud of my heritage, i read this & just thought id share it as it may shine a little light on how the 'English' feel.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/09/npoll109.xml

< Message edited by TJsCheekypet -- 4/23/2008 4:03:12 AM >

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 3:58:10 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Why isn't it a nation, I wonder?


During the creation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain it was deemed appropriate by the ruling classes who wanted to impose the idea of Britishness, that the constituent parts of the UK should have their identity suppressed and the identity of Britishness encouraged. The Irish always rejected this idea, as did the Scots. The Welsh were more complient and the English being the biggest part of the UK, totally complient.

Since then, the Irish have gained independence, the Scots are now semi-detached and the Welsh becoming more detached. The only way government can keep the UK together is to try and suppress an English political entity because that would cause the break up of the UK because it is far and away the biggest part.

England doesn't have a political identity in Europe because the British government doesn't want an English nation politically recognised in Europe for similar reasons that I have mentioned above.


Thanks for the info, MC. I always think of "British" and "English" as one and the same, despite having a foggy idea of there being some differences involved.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 4:04:35 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJsCheekypet

i am British & although i grew up in the United States i am still very proud of my heritage, i read this & just thought id share it as it may shine a little light on how the 'English' feel.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/09/npoll109.xml



Hmmmm, the Torygraph with a vested, political interest in the Union.

'Can only offer what I see with my own eyes - I don't know anyone who claims to be British - everyone I know claims to be English.

In fact, many of us would go further - I'm Northern English, first and foremost - London means very little to me; let alone the Britain borne out of military and economic convenience.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 4:09:34 AM   
lronitulstahp


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Joined: 10/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Since its St George's Day. St. George being the patron saint of England for those that don't know.

England is not recognized as a country in any international forum. I think it is the only nation in the EU that is not recognized as a nation. It doesn't have a political identity within the UK unlike the other home nations. The only place England is recognized as a nation is on the sports field and by the English tourist board.

So I'm asking the English on CM (and anyone else that wants to chip in), is it time for England to have its own Parliament and become politically recognized as a nation?
It's not a country because it's a kingdom, it seems.  Just as in reality, the people of the UK are subjects, not citizens...correct?  Not that being a citizen is all it's cracked up to be...   i believe there are other EU "countries" that like the UK, aren't considered a nation.  i know Belgium (and the seat of the EU) is a constitutional monarchy.  And like the UK there are culturally different areas of the country...it's just a part of European history really.  Trying to fit various people under a single flag is no great feat.  i think people today try to do the best they can with what they inherited from their forefathers.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 4:22:55 AM   
TJsCheekypet


Posts: 109
Joined: 4/18/2008
Status: offline 		Maybe i am wrong to say im British then, i live in Great Britain, while im not Scottish nor Welsh (not even Irish) i am part of this country....
i have simple views & am not political, sorry.

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previously known as 'blissy'/now Sir T.J's pet

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 4:48:42 AM   
NorthernGent


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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJsCheekypet

Maybe i am wrong to say im British then, i live in Great Britain, while im not Scottish nor Welsh (not even Irish) i am part of this country....
i have simple views & am not political, sorry.


'Not wrong at all - how you define yourself is your call.

I'm simply pointing out I what I see with my own eyes:

A "Notherner" - most I know would go for this; an "Englishman" - I know plenty who would go for this; "British" - you're the first I've come across who would use this as a term of self-definition.

The very reason why people wouldn't describe themselves as British is the reason you hint at in your post - Britain encompasses Scotland, Wales and England - each has it's distinct traditions and heritage.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 4:51:45 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Since its St George's Day. St. George being the patron saint of England for those that don't know.

England is not recognized as a country in any international forum. I think it is the only nation in the EU that is not recognized as a nation. It doesn't have a political identity within the UK unlike the other home nations. The only place England is recognized as a nation is on the sports field and by the English tourist board.

So I'm asking the English on CM (and anyone else that wants to chip in), is it time for England to have its own Parliament and become politically recognized as a nation?


It's not a country because it's a kingdom, it seems.  Just as in reality, the people of the UK are subjects, not citizens...correct?  Not that being a citizen is all it's cracked up to be...   i believe there are other EU "countries" that like the UK, aren't considered a nation.  i know Belgium (and the seat of the EU) is a constitutional monarchy.  And like the UK there are culturally different areas of the country...it's just a part of European history really.  Trying to fit various people under a single flag is no great feat.  i think people today try to do the best they can with what they inherited from their forefathers.


Historically correct but there has been several acts of Parliament defining citizenship and Brits are now citizens and not subjects.

The EU isn't trying to be a country though there are many Brits(ironically, mainly English Brits) claiming that it is. The EU demands that member states recognize and respect minorities and ethnic groups. Hmm. I'm wondering now if the British government isn't technically breaking the EU charter by not formally recognizing England as a nation (informally it does of course).

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 5:00:34 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Ive always used "Im a  Brit" or "Im English", never had a thought about it.
I do celebrate St Georges Day, mainly these days because its my wedding anniversary, and in Canada its not known so much, even tho Im informed that George is the patron saint of Canada too. Quite the popular chappy thruout the eastern european area too.
As for the original post  regarding an "English" parliament, Im gonna go out on a limb as an expat and say , what the hell do they need another level of lying, cheating, scum sucking ditch pigs for? The North/South divide is bad enough as it is. Just throwing more politicians into the mix is just asking for trouble.
Adds disclaimer, Im like Cheekypet, I have simple views and am not political, meh.
Lucy

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 5:03:39 AM   
RealityLicks


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Status: offline 		Mc, Since the main political parties espouse a unionist philosophy and the issue of Welsh and Scots nationalism barely registers on the radar, the prospect of an English parliament is negligible.  Paradoxically, the rise of the the SNP has seen a fall in interest in independence Up the Road; though some polls suggest its a momentary dip, I think financial realities will win out over romantic hopes. An English Parliament only makes sense at the point of Scots/Welsh independence and I've always seen any such talk as intended to diminish the status of the Welsh and Scots Assemblies by putting them on a par with English regions.

NG, thanks for the reminder of how unimportant all those of us in London are to you.  What a mate!  Still, more of a cultural argument than a political one.  If it works, why fix it?  Oasis come from Manchester, sign to Alan McGee who's from Glasgow and record in Abbey Road, London.  Should we really involve passports in all that?

PS  Trafalgar Square is packed with English food stalls and entertainers for St George's Day.  About to eat my organic steak and kidney pie.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 5:09:46 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		I dunno NG -  I have irish and romany ancestory, and I always describe myself as english.  So meet another one.  But I am also British.  People mix up United Kingdom and Britain so many times, it is frustrating to a Brit.  Being british simply means I live on this Island and not any of the islands surrounding it -  that includes the channel isles, ireland  and many of the scottish isles, or man.  It isn't a nationality persay but an indication of abode.
I live in the UK and people tend to forget that the UK may be an island country, but it is a is a collection of constituant countries, and crown dependants.  I think it pretty much sucks that people tend to leave out the peeps out on the crown dependancy islands such as Jersey, etc and those that wish to claim seperation like Cornwall.
 
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 4/23/2008 5:13:15 AM >

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 5:22:31 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJsCheekypet

Maybe i am wrong to say im British then, i live in Great Britain, while im not Scottish nor Welsh (not even Irish) i am part of this country....
i have simple views & am not political, sorry.


Hello Cheeky
My POV is that your not wrong to identify as a brit if you live on this island.
 
the.dark.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 5:26:47 AM   
TJsCheekypet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJsCheekypet

Maybe i am wrong to say im British then, i live in Great Britain, while im not Scottish nor Welsh (not even Irish) i am part of this country....
i have simple views & am not political, sorry.


Hello Cheeky
My POV is that your not wrong to identify as a brit if you live on this island.
 
the.dark.

 
Hello to you both, thank you for your comment. i do live in the UK. i have for a while now, but even when i lived in America & picked up the accent (deep south) i still was proud to be a Brit. & never denied who i was... guess im just a BritBilly @ heart.

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my words are just my two cents, my opinions. Not words to live by & not set in stone.


previously known as 'blissy'/now Sir T.J's pet

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 5:39:20 AM   
kittinSol


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ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

Just as in reality, the people of the UK are subjects, not citizens...correct? 



Incorrect - my British passport says 'British citizen', not 'British subject'. Thankfully.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 5:44:33 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

An English Parliament only makes sense at the point of Scots/Welsh independence and I've always seen any such talk as intended to diminish the status of the Welsh and Scots Assemblies by putting them on a par with English regions.



There are not geographic, demographic or  politically defined English regions. There are various overlapping regions and authorities run by various qangos such as development councils, health authorities or education authorities or police authorities, none I believe adhering to the same geographical or demographic lines. So much for accountability to the English voter. Britain is the most centralised country in western Europe and that is because of the government takes the English voter for granted.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 4/23/2008 5:45:23 AM >

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 5:51:43 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		"RENTON: I hate being Scottish. We're the lowest of the fucking low, the scum of the earth, the most wretched, servile, miserable, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some people hate the English, but I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are colonized by wankers. We can't even pick a decent culture to be colonized by. We are ruled by effete arseholes. It's a shite state of affairs and all the fresh air in the world will not make any fucking difference."

Trainspotting, Irvine Welsh

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