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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 10:12:24 AM   
orfunboi


Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline 		I can only go on observation also. I tend to talk to people alot, especially at Disney for some reason and I can't remember anyone ever saying they were from Britain. A few say the UK, but for the most part when asked they say either "I'm from England" or "I'm English".  While I knows it's wrong, I personally think of England as its own country and the same with Ireland, Scotland and Whales. Not sure why, it's just the way my mind works. I love all the accents and have always wanted to visit, but it hasn't happened yet.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 10:12:54 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Just get the British troops out of there. Simple, clean, fast :-) .


Since Northern Ireland is part of Britain, British troops are not occupying it.
The only time the island of Ireland has been united is under British rule so the idea there was ever a single country or culture in Ireland before the Brits is nonsense. As for what is commonly declared as ancient Irish culture of St Columba’s time, that traversed the northern part of what is today Ireland, Scotland and northern England. St Patrick came from what is today England. The Scots were originally Irish, form the approx the area of Ulster and straddled the western highlands so one can say they only went back to where they came from. All the indiginous people of the British Isles, Irish, Scots, English and Welsh, share the same DNA to varying degrees so its not as though each nation is a different ethnic group.
 
If the Republicans in the new independent republic didn’t burn out the protestants (20% of the republic were protestant in 1916, 2% now), then maybe the protestants in Northern Ireland might have looked more favourably on a united Ireland.
 
Personally I think a united Ireland would have been best for all in Ireland but then I’m not Irish, either of the Catholic or the Protestant variety. As a Protestant Irish comedian once commented, unlike other countries being Irish depends on your religion and not where you are born or your family has lived for hundreds of years. Until the Irish (republicans) can accept being Irish can also mean being protestant, many Irish will continue to prefer to be British.
 
Sometimes its worth reading a little history before spouting a populist cause.



   At last, well done !


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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 10:17:31 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Sorry, guys - it's arguable that Northern Ireland should be part of the United Kingdom in the first place.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 10:26:15 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Sorry, but I was under the understanding, any province in any part of the world could looked upon as disputed territory if one chooses to look back far enough.

Personally, lets ignore the troubled history of N Ireland, and look towards the future, then maybe let the inhabitants of that country make their own decision as to what country they want to be. That should be the qualifying criteria, you have to actually live in the country to decide upon it's future.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 10:30:55 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Sorry, but I was under the understanding, any province in any part of the world could looked upon as disputed territory if one chooses to look back far enough.



Hmmmm... slippery. I hope we don't slide down into the Middle East again.

quote:



(...) let the inhabitants of that country make their own decision as to what country they want to be. That should be the qualifying criteria, you have to actually live in the country to decide upon it's future.



Who said anything about deciding? We're just giving out opinions here :-) . And who's to tell you I don't have a vested interest in this, hmmm?

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 11:34:33 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		I don't see whats 'well done' about stating history of occupation.  Yes, it happens a lot.  Yes it's happened in the past.  Doesn't make it right.
 
the.dark.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 11:37:30 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
then maybe let the inhabitants of that country make their own decision as to what country they want to be. That should be the qualifying criteria, you have to actually live in the country to decide upon it's future.


Shame no one ever thinks of that when occupying hey.
And if that is the case, then I was correct in the beginning using that reasoning - Ireland isn't part of the British Isles.

 
the.dark.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 11:40:56 AM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I always refer to myself as English. St Georges day should be celebrated just like any other "Saints" day. I have a double celebration, as its my birthday. As from now i should be PS55

The history of the English Irish Scots and Welsh is all intertwined. Each and every one of the four nations goes back to the Celts, the largest tribe was the Brythonic, which is where the name Briton comes from. The Gaels were in Ireland, the Picts north of the Rivers Forth and Clyde, and the Brythonic south of the Clyde.

I dont see how anyone can occupy a land which is recognised as their own. There was a poll in 2005 where almost 60% of the population of Ulster wanted to stay within the United Kingdom, this means many Catholics must have voted to stay in.

Two great ironies are that the Pope issued a Papal Bull allowing Henry11 to rule as Lord of Ireland, and that St Patrick was English, kidnapped and taken to Ireland as a slave.  


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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 11:48:28 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Happy Birthday Politesub, and Happy St Georges day too, Ironies and all:)
Lucy

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 12:42:39 PM   
FullCircle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
is it time for England to have its own Parliament and become politically recognized as a nation?


No but it's about time Scottish MP's were no longer allowed to vote on issues that only effect England.

Also www.google.co.uk recognises St. George's day.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 12:43:00 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Thank you kindly Lucy.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 1:57:19 PM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I'm jealous - what I would give for a pint or two in a nice pub  , St George's day or not.
...and in that spirit off to pub tonight, to celebrate with the English tourists....will they notice if i don't drink????  
politesub...and here's hoping someday you're PS105

< Message edited by lronitulstahp -- 4/23/2008 2:00:32 PM >

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 2:32:03 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		You bet they'll notice if you don't drink  . Brace yourself: time for some serious downthehatching.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 2:39:37 PM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
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Status: offline 		happy Birthday Politesub! Arent April birthdays grand?

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 4:11:25 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I don't see whats 'well done' about stating history of occupation.  Yes, it happens a lot.  Yes it's happened in the past.  Doesn't make it right.
 
the.dark.


What is well done  .d.  is that someone chose to post about knowing the history of the troubles before making comments.

And yes, maybe occupation is not right, but why not just let it go, and look towards a better future,  I am sure the vast majority of inhabitants would agree, life is much easier not having to worry about bombs, bullets and sectarian killings.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 4:12:33 PM   
ludwig9


Posts: 19
Joined: 5/14/2005
Status: offline 		It's also my son's birthday (2 today! and WHAT a party).  We called him Joseph George, though the "George" bit comes from his Granddad rather than the Saint.  No harm in the coincidence though (though his Mum is half German, so a good job he wasn't born on the 18th).  His great-grandfather (93) sent him a St. George's Day card.  I had never seen one of those before.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 4:13:52 PM   
lusciouslips19


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Status: offline 		Those blokes across the pond will use any excuse to have a Toddy.

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 4:18:26 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

Those blokes across the pond will use any excuse to have a Toddy.


Excuse ?......... If it is a day with a Y in the spelling, thats good enough 

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: St. George's Day - 4/23/2008 4:50:47 PM   
ludwig9


Posts: 19
Joined: 5/14/2005
Status: offline 		Just for the sake of accuracy / pedantry, Northern Ireland is not part of Britain.  It is part of the United Kingdom, or - to give it its full and rather pompous title - Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.  Contrary to what a couple of people have suggested in earlier posts, the Crown Protectorates (Guernsey, Jersey, Isle of Man, et al) are not part of either Great Britain or the UK either.

Furthermore, it is a little-appreciated fact that the troops were sent into Northern Ireland to protect the Catholics from Protestant / Unionist extremists (albeit at a time when Nationalist sentiment was rising and violence was being seen on both sides), not to "occupy" it.  Of course what has happened since is a different and very complex story.  Personally, I suspect that the creation of Scottish and Welsh parliaments - which seem to be absurd in every other way - and increased autonomy for both is all part of a concerted effort to sort out the issue of Northern Ireland once and for all.  It may work in the long run - I hope so - but in the near term it will be extremely difficult because of the long history but particularly because of the idiocies on both sides over the last 40 years.  As an Ulster Scots businessman once said to me: "One day, there will be a united Ireland.  And it will be over my dead body."

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RE: St. George's Day - 4/24/2008 12:20:28 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Yorkshire



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