RE: Expectations of Male Submissives

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MmeGigs -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 4:21:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressMiracle Also, I tend to delete sub's profiles/emails when they show no respect in a first e-mail or inquiry. For example, not addressing me as Mistress. Not thanking me for my time after their request for me to review their profile. It's interesting how we're all very different. I tend to delete emails from those who address me as Mistress and those who grovel. It irritates me. I tell them specifically not to do that in my profile, but few actually read the profile before contacting me, it seems.

darchChylde -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 5:06:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MmeGigs quote: ORIGINAL: MistressMiracle Also, I tend to delete sub's profiles/emails when they show no respect in a first e-mail or inquiry. For example, not addressing me as Mistress. Not thanking me for my time after their request for me to review their profile. It's interesting how we're all very different. I tend to delete emails from those who address me as Mistress and those who grovel. It irritates me. I tell them specifically not to do that in my profile, but few actually read the profile before contacting me, it seems. i believe what is most telling here is that MistressMiracle actually has "Mistress" in her username, generally denoting that is how she wishes to be addressed by those who email her You MmeGigs on the other hand, do not have that specific title in your username and "Madame" does not have the same connotations people tend to associate with "Mistress". i wonder if MistressMiracle actually insists on being called "Mistress" from introductory emails, or actually "MistressMiracle" as it is her username here on collarme. On the other hand, i wonder if it might make a negative impression if someone called you simply "Madame" or even simply "Gigs" in an introductory email. i'd like to note that i do not actually have any idea about either of your specific preferences in regards to introductory emails or inquirys. For example, what MistressMiracle may consider as merely the respect due to her; you might see as groveling. edited to add: i'm ever thankful i have never needed to seek a dominant online, this type of social tightrope walking would mean that every submissive would be likely to step very wrong; especially when so few dominants specify the precise protocols they expect from those that might seek their attention.

ShaktiSama -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 5:18:03 PM)
I agree with Dominant Jenny. There are a lot of really wonderful, high quality male submissives on this forum--plenty of role models for many different types of submission and different relationships with their dominants. And I'll also ditto LadyHibiscus: speaking as a bisexual domme, I can say very freely that a charmless profile or a negative, over-controlling attitude is not attractive in male OR female submissives. There is no double standard in that respect.

darchChylde -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 5:24:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama I can say very freely that a charmless profile or a negative, over-controlling attitude is not attractive i can say the very same thing for a dominant edited to add: Side-note to ShaktiSama, i did not mean that comment as a reflection of your, or anyone else's profile.

BadJezebel -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 5:27:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AsianShoeDiva It doesn't. The problem (IN MY OPINION [:)]) stems from Mistresses/Dommes hearing from/dealing with too many "do-me" subs who are simply looking to bottom to their fetish. Dealing with those types becomes very tiresome. ... I assume, "here it comes, the whole description of how I can have the privelege of becoming his personal fetish delivery device.." quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus I think that when the list of wants and needs is ENTIRELY based on fetish that female dominants get turned off. When the list of "services" on offer is entirely sexual, and based on the sexual needs/desires of the would-be submissive, not on what the dominant is interested in. When the would-be submissive ignores simple directions and forges ahead calling the dominant by some term that she dislikes, or incessantly PM's her. ... Sing it, Sister... I think that most of us would have the same thing to say. -- Both of you put it so well.

ShaktiSama -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 5:33:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darchChylde i can say the very same thing for a dominant I would like to think that some of the same rules apply, yes, but I try never to speak for anyone but myself. [;)]

TermsConditions -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 5:46:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann Obviously, there's greater competition amongst male submissives for female dominants; yet how does stating preferences for a certain kind of situation make a male any less submissive, for stating those preferences? It all depends on what is being stated. The examples given of wanting to work outside the home and be able to seemingly have a relationship with a Domme would be alright in my book. Those aren't really the overly-detailed wanker fantasies, but would smack more of someone seeking a LTR. In which case I suppose it might be better for the sub to come out and say that they're looking for a real relationship and not just play, rather than going into the specifics without first establishing a line of communication -- it's the equivalent of going on a first date and asking about future children five minutes as soon as the other person says "Hi." The line is crossed when you get a letter that contains six paragraphs of rambling about how much he wants to be tied up and beaten while dressed like Sailor Moon or whatever those crazy kids are doing nowadays. Most people have their interests/limits in their profiles already, so theoretically a prospective Domme could wander on over to the sub's profile and see what they've got listed. It's hard to explain, but you can smell a wanker a mile away. Oh, and most importantly? I hate it when I get letters full of stuff about how they're kneeling at my feet and stuff like that. Approach me as a person, not a piece of woman-flesh in boots. [8\|] Tied up and beaten while dressed up as Sailor Moon [sm=meh.gif] -- vs -- smelling a wanker from a mile away....[:'(] I don't know which one of those things dusturbs me more...[;)]

darchChylde -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 5:48:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TermsConditions Tied up and beaten while dressed up as Sailor Moon [sm=meh.gif] -- vs -- smelling a wanker from a mile away....[:'(] I don't know which one of those things dusturbs me more...[;)] cheesy

chamberqueen -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 5:52:52 PM)
I don't have a university degree, but I've got an IQ of over 140 and an honorary doctorate. I would not want a sub writing to me and telling me that I need to have a degree to be his Domme. I can't wear high heels - again, I would not want someone so shallow as to choose me based on that fact. There is nothing wrong with stating a general outline of what you are looking for. In fact, it is good to be very up front with things like whether you are looking for a romance along with it, or an LTR; whether you feel yourself to be more of a sub or a slave; and there is nothing wrong with saying that you have some physical limitations. However, from what you wrote I feel that the information is too specific for a greeting - which is basically what I profile is. I wouldn't even want to hear it in a first email. It would make me feel like I was being interviewed for the job before someone even wished me good morning.

MySweetSubmssive -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 5:54:34 PM)
Stephan, Part of what you are looking at is a gendered difference in communication. In general, women feel best when the people around them are happy. Some times it drives me crazy when I'm with women friends and I ask what they want to do -- invariably the reply is "Whatever the group wants to do." Typical feminine response. We express ourselves in seemingly roundabout ways to balance our own desires with the perceived needs of the people with us. When I talk to dominant men, they do tell me that it can take a lot of coaxing to find out what pushes a submissive woman's buttons. Men are socialized to be direct, to assert, to figure out what their objective is and to pursue it. You can see how a conversation with a man -- whether he is submissive or not -- would unfold. Most don't need coaxing! It can feel like being the the blast of a fire hose! I'm expressing myself a little baldly to flush out the differences in how women and men communicate, but at bottom this is fairly accurate for most people. In general, I do not get to D/s through sex first. I don't know if this is a sterotype or a gendered difference, but many of the men who contact me think that because D/s can include sex or rides on sexual energy, that I will therefore want to talk sex. Right away. With him. That is SO not how it works for me. On most days I want to dominate someone because he makes me laugh, he's bright and intriguing, ethical (sicko that I am, it makes me wet), obliging. That is pretty frustrating and perplexing to many folks who get in contact with me. Because I don't talk to female submissives, I do wonder if this is a male/female wiring thing. What bums me out is that I avoid talking about sex and D/s because for many submissives, once we go down that road it's the only thing they want to focus on. Bleah. There are men who are wonderful at holding their tongue and waiting their turn at expressing their needs and desires, but it goes against everything you dangly types are socialized to do. Add on top of that that a great many of the men on the site are here simply to pursue getting off with a twist, and you get a lot of weary women who don't want to hear what a submissive wants. Some of the time that's me. (smiling) A few years ago I had a light bulb moment around this. In D/s (and maybe with sex in general), women need to assert more, and men need to be more receptive -- or as I expressed it at the time, they need to shut up. I have to say, when I was on the s side of things, I got the most mileage with D's who were very perceptive -- hot, hot, hot! When a submissive man quiets down his needs for a bit and listens to the domme, she can access her own passion and desires, and he benefits! I found this to be very true when I was starting. Even now, when someone is aggressive with his needs it can be a killer for me. I end up turning those folks down. Here is my short answer: Do I care about the needs of submissive men who come calling? Helllllllllllllll, no. Do I care about the needs of my (sweet) submissive? You betcha! I hope that I have made it clear that I differentiate between the sweaty masses on CM and the juicy men who are thoroughly, deliciously submissive. MSS

TermsConditions -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 6:02:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lashra In my mind it doesn't make him any less submissive, I want to hear his preferences to see if they jive with mine. If they don't then he isn't a match for me. Let's face it everyone expects to get something they need out of a relationship, people who claim that they aren't and that its all about the other persons needs are just kidding themselves. What makes me think a person isnt submissive is when they say "My Mistress will wear black leather and dress up me up as a sissy maid and ream my ass repeatedly with her strapon until my legs give out and I'm a jello mess on the floor every night." Now perhaps this does meet some Dominants expectations, but it doesn't meet mine. I will wear what I want, I will tell my sub what to wear and I will choose what we will do and if he has a problem with that he should have thought about it back in the negotiation stage of the relationship. Of course subs should have expectations, because Dominants certainly do. ~Lashra Lashra, you describe a nice middle ground of open communication junxtaposed against the demanding, controlling sub, or Mr. DoMe. What about the other end of the spectrum? Consider a sub with no specific requirements or expressed wants. I don't know what I want, but I want it to be what She wants. Better if it's something I don't want. (But if it meets that criteria then it becomes something I want. Therfore I would not want it anymore at which point it would again meet the required criteria and would then be desired, but then....and then my brain just knots up.) Without expressed wants does one run the risk of getting stuck in "What do you wanna to do?, I dunno what do you wanna do?"

TermsConditions -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 6:03:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darchChylde quote: ORIGINAL: TermsConditions Tied up and beaten while dressed up as Sailor Moon [sm=meh.gif] -- vs -- smelling a wanker from a mile away....[:'(] I don't know which one of those things dusturbs me more...[;)] cheesy eeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwww........:-P

blackpearl81 -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 6:09:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann So there was another thread here where a male submissive was clear about stating he wanted very specific things, and was told repeatedly that it'd probably be a long time before he'd have them met, because it wasn't supposed to be about what he wanted. I understand on a regular basis that female dominants are approached by men who clearly have little or no interest in her desires and expectations, and immediately rattle off lists of "I expect my mistress to do X, Y, & Z while wearing blah blah blah." But many (not all mind you) of the expectations he outlined seemed to be in keeping with what female submissives expect as a matter of course: that they share a bed, that sex would be part of the relationship, that he be allowed to work outside the house, that he has limitations when it comes to physical labor, that she have a college education, etc etc. Obviously, there's greater competition amongst male submissives for female dominants; yet how does stating preferences for a certain kind of situation make a male any less submissive, for stating those preferences? Stephan It doesn't. However, showing a certain lack of respect for those who are offering their opinions may. (ie: When he became all defensive about those that were critiquing his profile) Just my thoughts though.

blushingflower -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 6:39:52 PM)
Honestly, I think some of it has to do with supply and demand. Female subs are in greater demand than male subs, female dominants in greater demand than male doms. Thus, male dominants are perhaps more tolerant of certain behaviors than female dominants, because they have to be. But also with gender norms and expectations. There is the idea that the man pursues and woos, and the woman selects among the suitors. So when a man approaches a woman, the expectation is that he should have to say "this is why you should choose me", with the expecation that he sees something in her that he knows he wants, or else he wouldn't be initiating contact. Whereas a woman is allowed to spell out what she wants and what the job requirements are so any potential applicants know what they need to do to succeed. As a female submissive, I've never felt like I had to prove myself to a potential Dom, but it seems like male submissives do have to do that, which I think is a carry-over from traditional gender expectations.

khem -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 7:25:36 PM)
I think it's a matter of tone. I think people (men...) will also put up with a little more snarkiness in women in general. I have read plenty of female submissive profiles that are just as bad as the male submissive ones that get bashed regularly on this forum. It's just not my current dating pool, so I'm not really looking at a lot of those types of profiles. I think do-me's come in either gender. I would also put forward, given my brief experience bottoming when I first got into BDSM, that men will put up with a lot of crap if they are getting laid (or think that they might be). As for the tone, it's a fine line between stating preferences and making laundry lists. I think a lot of it comes from someone's level of experience with real life BDSM interaction. Someone with experience is far more likely to say "I know I do not react well to relationships that are poly" versus "I will not do poly-do not even ask!" Again, tone and experience. I think I've gotten fairly sensitive to the slightest bit of pushiness in emails and profiles. It's a valuable screening tool that I think many women have developed. While I cannot speak for the other people who have commented on profiles, I have met enough people from BDSM websites that I really read between the lines when looking at a profile. In my mind, the information someone excludes is sometimes just as important as what's there. Also, male submissives get bashed when they just talk about fetishes in very limited terms because they are lame. Seriously. Most intelligent people want to be engaged on many levels and the posts are just a few tacos short of a fiesta platter. [:D] For example, a short story about a man experiencing strap-on play was recently posted. Many women (myself included) drooled all over it. Now compare that to a post that says "I'm looking for a strap-on Mistress. I just want to be fucked hard and good. Why is it so hard to find a woman that wants this?" So go read the story and then read my mock post. It's not about the fetish discussed, it's the level at which they're discussing it. [:@]

undergroundsea -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 8:08:40 PM)
The word expectation can represent a demand (do this), a request (please do this), or simply what one would like (I would be most content if this happened). I think expectations are most likely to draw an objection when they come across as a demand. I have expectations (what would make me content in a relationship) and I think it is fair for me to have them. If I am in a relationship and it does not and cannot meet enough of my expectations, I think it is fair of me to conclude incompatibility. Cheers, Sea

undergroundsea -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 8:20:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressMiracle Also, I tend to delete sub's profiles/emails when they show no respect in a first e-mail or inquiry. For example, not addressing me as Mistress. Not thanking me for my time after their request for me to review their profile. I can compose an email that conveys respect but does not address one as mistress or thanks for time taken to look at my profile. I think what those gestures convey are formality and subservience, which is fair and interesting enough. Cheers, Sea

Lashra -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/24/2008 8:32:54 PM)
That's why I told my sub when we first started negotiating to look deep inside of himself and write down exactly what he needed, wanted and desired. I already had my list, we compared them, discussed them and found they were almost identical. In doing so there is no "Well I dunno what I want to do?". We both knew from the very beginning. We started out slow (He was brand new at the sub end of the whip) and we have progressed quite a ways. People just need to sit down and think about what it is that they want, need and desire in their lives. If they can't come up with something then perhaps they need to do some research before they try to hook up with Mistress. That way they know what they are looking for and won't waste his time nor hers. ~Lashra

chezzy71 -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/25/2008 2:09:24 AM)
For me it depends on who i am speaking with.If i contact a Domina whose profile is open to all forms of discussion,i usually bring up the one fetish i have quickly only to state its importance not only to me but in my developement and then i drop it.And there are still others that i won't go near it until the Domina gives me that opening.And still there are others who like to somewhat advertise...case in point...there is one Domina that is a member of collarme that has gushed about her fake boobs and how they were "store bought" but basically she owns them now as she must have paid on installments.So i asked the appropriate question..."were they bought at Macy's or Wal-Mart"??She didn't respond but i looked upon it as no different than one of us subs taking a pic of our naughty bits to send along or bragging without effectiveness(when has bragging ever been effective)about how great we are in bed or how amazing we are in the use of our tongues.It cuts both ways.

Madame4a -> RE: Expectations of Male Submissives (4/25/2008 6:11:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild ~FR~ I am wondering how often a male sub is falsely accused of being a "do me sub" or a SAM when they have stated in their profile their wants/needs/desires and are specific on what they are searching for. Looking at the other side of this issue, isn't it highly possible that a male sub who is specific in their wants and needs are simply more aware of themselves and are more accurately portraying the fact they know themselves better? It seems to me that a male sub who knows himself, is better able to articulate their needs to a potential Domme. To me this seems preferable then a male sub who simply states that he is willing to do/be anything the Mistress wants or one who has no idea what they seek and the Domme thus has to waste her time determining if that sub is worth the effort and is an actual "do me" type. I think that probably happens a lot. In the end though, I think its all about tone -- and with only having words to convey things -- it takes someone being very careful and thinking about what they are writing. Personally I prefer people who at least know themselves and have some idea of what they want and need. Again though, its how its conveyed I think.

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