RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice.

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popeye1250 -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/26/2008 10:03:45 PM)
RT, I know one, my former stock broker. He went to Boston College but never finished. He said he was making too much money to go back. He worked for Paine Webber and Merrill Lynch when I was with him but moved on to another company that only deals with accounts with a minimum of $250k. And a neighbor of mine worked for BofA as an arbitrage banker with only a Liberal Arts degree from U.Conn. She told me the same thing, "it was all on the job training." "We'll teach you our way." And she said it was, "no big deal." Also a childhood friend of mine who never went to college but did go to Malden Catholic ended up running the computer systems for a large hospital in Boston. He was an absolute genious but sadly drank himself to death. And, a Navy buddy of mine started a company called TeleCheck and is a multi millionaire. He was a Radioman in the Navy. And I use "anecdotes" because life is "anecdotal." I never said having a degree is a "bad" thing just that you want one that is in demand. A lot of them aren't. And, a lot of good jobs simply don't require a degree to do the work. They're just the opposite of govt jobs with "titles" that are basically secretarial jobs but "require" a degree when it isn't neccessary to justify $80k salaries. You seem to be overly rigid in your thinking. There are many more ways than "one" to do things. Again, would you hire me with my 25 year old degree over someone with no degree but plenty of experience who can do the job?

popeye1250 -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/26/2008 11:17:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 RT, I know one, my former stock broker. He went to Boston College but never finished. He said he was making too much money to go back. He worked for Paine Webber and Merrill Lynch when I was with him but moved on to another company that only deals with accounts with a minimum of $250k. And a neighbor of mine worked for BofA as an arbitrage banker with only a Liberal Arts degree from U.Conn. She told me the same thing, "it was all on the job training." "We'll teach you our way." And she said it was, "no big deal." Also a childhood friend of mine who never went to college but did go to Malden Catholic ended up running the computer systems for a large hospital in Boston. He was an absolute genious but sadly drank himself to death. And, a Navy buddy of mine started a company called TeleCheck and is a multi millionaire. He was a Radioman in the Navy. And I use "anecdotes" because life is "anecdotal." I never said having a degree is a "bad" thing just that you want one that is in demand. A lot of them aren't. And, a lot of good jobs simply don't require a degree to do the work. They're just the opposite of govt jobs with "titles" that are basically secretarial jobs but "require" a degree when it isn't neccessary to justify $80k salaries. You seem to be overly rigid in your thinking. There are many more ways than "one" to do things. Again, would you hire me with my 25 year old degree over someone with no degree but plenty of experience who can do the job? You know RT, I was thinking, if I can find it and if the moths haven't eaten it yet in some dusty box somewhere I might take my degree down to the shootin' range and put a few caps through it. At least that way it'll provide me with a little entertainment! It never did anything else for me.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/28/2008 8:49:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied It's great that you have a high GPA moving forward in whatever degree you are pursuing. thank you But you must develop a skill set that will be helpful in the work place. Employers value people who can be flexible, independent, and proactive in their work. This means working flexible hours when needed I told them at my interview that I didn't want to be scheduled on weekends, but I could work an occasional weekend if needed. doing as much as you can independently without asking questions all of the time So I'm supposed to start a new job in a brand new line of work where I have no previous experience and not ask questions? Since when is asking questions to learn a job and reduce mistakes a negative characteristic? I thought the more questions I asked the less mistakes I'd make. I thought I was going to be evaluated on my job performance. In every other job I've had new employees were encouraged to ask questions. and doing what you can to ease your boss's situation. If you are serious about school, as you seem to be, I'm left not understanding how you completely dropped the ball on this work situation, that is critical to how you are perceived. I am assuming this job was the length of one semester? Yet you could not be flexible enough to go with it? That says a lot. The EBE was the length of one semester, not the job. I work for an organization that cares for disabled adults. Supposedly, this organization encourages their disabled clients to interact with their families. My UM is disabled and lives a ways away. Does he not count because he's an UM and not one of their clients? What would you do if you had a disabled UM with a life threatening condition you could only see on weekends and when you asked the place you worked for nicely to take you off the weekends you made clear in the beginning you didn't want to be scheduled for , they expected you to wait a freakin year? My UM may not live to be very old. He's prone to seizures that affect his ability to breathe and when he has them, he has to be rushed to the hospital and put on a ventilator. I live in fear every day that I'll get a call from his father saying he's dead because he had a seizure in the middle of the night when everyone was asleep. Yes, my son is more important to me than any job, EBE or not. If that says alot, then so be it.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/28/2008 9:24:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: batshalom dbg, I hate to point this out - I don't want to - but it if it helps you in the long-run it will be worth it. I'm sure you're smart and I'm sure you're capable, but if your persona is the same in RL as it often is online, this could be hard going for you. You can be very combattive, to put it mildly. Ask some people (classmates, friends) for some honest feedback about yourself and the manner in which you conduct yourself, and if the feedback is negative, take steps to make positive changes so that you're helping yourself instead of hurting yourself. I'm not trying to be nasty. I'm trying to point out what could correlate with this particular incident / set of incidents. Correlation doesn't imply causation, of course, but maybe it's something to consider. I know you're not trying to be nasty. I assure you I was in no way combative. A few facts: 1. I told them in my interview I didn't want to be scheduled on weekends, but I would work an occasional shift on a weekend if needed (like if someone called in or something) therefore, I was trying to be flexible. 2. Their new employee process took too long and by the time I was offered any shifts, I had to take whatever I could get to have enough hours in time to complete my EBE. I made it clear to them I was only taking the weekend shift on a temporary basis. I was honest with them from the beginning. 3. My work is excellent. The clients really like me. According to them, other staff come in and take over their tv, are rude to them, and don't assist them when they are walking on uneven ground outside. I've worked several shifts I wasn't scheduled for because someone called in. Other staff weren't getting the bathrooms clean and soap scum was all built up. One of my bosses was complaining about it at the last meeting. Several days later when I was scheduled to work, nothing had been done. I bought cleaner that actually worked and an abrasive scrubber and took care of the problem. My eyes and lungs were burning and I had a cough for several days after. All of this took place before they did my evaluation. 4. Although they told the school I have an attitude problem and I'm not suitable for the only major I have any interest in, I'm welcome to continue working there. If I'm so terrible, why don't they fire me? I sure wouldn't want someone working for me that had an attitude problem.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/28/2008 9:53:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl I refused to allow them to take advantage of me. What would i do in this situation? i would take a close inventory of how and why i think i am constantly a victim I stuck up for myself to avoid being a victim. i would start taking responsibility for my actions and stop expecting everyone else to bend to my will, my needs, and my expectations. Yeah, I'm expecting everyone to bend to my will when I was honest from the beginning. i would learn a hard lesson from this experience What hard lesson? That I was supposed to give up weekend visits to my son and what little social life I had time for for an entire year? Can you do the EBE with a different company? I think this experience has caused me to develop a phobia for EBE's. If I do another one, I'll get a negative report for being a nervous wreck lol

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/28/2008 10:18:03 PM)
I'd like to thank everyone that has given good advice and look forward to hearing more. I am a bit confused on any of this being my fault though when I was honest and upfront about the schedule I was seeking from the beginning.

CalifChick -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/28/2008 10:23:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl I am a bit confused on any of this being my fault though when I was honest and upfront about the schedule I was seeking from the beginning. It's not the message, it's the delivery. There are many ways of saying that you cannot work weekends except to cover sometimes in an emergency. Apparently your method of delivery came across as abrasive. And they remember that. I'm one of those that believes that it's not what you know how to do, it's whether you fit in. Cali

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/28/2008 11:03:37 PM)
I'm popular with my clients because I treat them with the same dignity and respect I treat people without disabilities. I'm afraid I've never gotten along with the human resource manager. Here's a little background info: One of my social work classes had a guest speaker that was involved in helping people with disabilities. She told how they were taught to be more self sufficient and how empowering it was for them. Fast forward to first meeting with human resource manager: I told her I looked forward to caring for and teaching the clients. She said in a very rude tone of voice teaching them wasn't my job, cooking and cleaning was. She told me I wasn't supposed to teach them anything without approval of someone more qualified. And yes, she knew I was a social work student at the time she said that. I got the impression she was more concerned with intimidating new employees than looking at their personality assets. I apologized, smiled, and got through the rest of the interview thinking I wouldn't have to deal with her much anyway. I had no idea she was the one who would evaluate me. I'm still trying to figure out why she bit my head off for saying I looked forward to caring for and teaching the clients.

CalifChick -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/28/2008 11:08:59 PM)
So are you saying that you believe because you were a social work student that you were qualified to teach? I can imagine that I would be horrified if a student (and therefore untested, unlicensed, untried) came in and thought they were going to teach anybody to do anything when they were supposed to be cooking and cleaning. You really can't see why that would be troublesome to an HR manager? It certainly does sound like you got off on the wrong foot.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/28/2008 11:22:42 PM)
I thought I was going to be working along with the professionals in teaching life skills to the clients. That was in my learning objectives for my EBE sent to them by the school. I was supposed to be learning about social work. I didn't know otherwise until she bit my head off.

Emperor1956 -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/28/2008 11:28:54 PM)
FR: This is not gentle. DBG, up until now, I was not going to reply to your posts, as katylied, cali and batshalom (among others) have given you sound, gentle advice that you review your tone and your behavior to see if you are causing this friction with your employer. And yet each time in each new post, in defense of your actions, you come up with an excuse, or cite your sad and difficult life (I am sorry your child is ill -- but does the world then owe you a job on your terms? And the fact that your love interest can only see you on weekends -- is that something an employer should account for?). You refuse to be the least bit introspective. You refuse to consider that anyone in a position of authority could know a bit more about the job, could understand the expectations and could perhaps be motivated by anything other than mean-spiritedness against you. Tell me, if your account to us is unbiased, why do they all dislike you? Why are you singled out for this difficult treatment? Have you noticed that every time you encounter a person of authority in connection with this job, you are "wronged"? Even the HR person you just told us about had the temerity to remind you that the job is "cooking and cleaning" -- not teaching, or anything else you think you brought to the table. And of course she was discarded by you -- until -- oh MY! she turns out to be your evaluator. Who made the error there? I run a small health care service business that it entirely dependent on the quality of my people. Occasionally one of my managers will hire someone who sounds a lot like you. I call these people "toxic" because they poison the workplace. They rarely make it past the 90-day new hire probation. And each time, I silently thank whoever it was who created that 90 day test period. You started this post saying you had a serious need of advice. Instead, you've shown us a serious need to defend your conduct when you failed. You've been given a lot of good advice here -- stop arguing and defending and LISTEN. E.

DDraigeuraid -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/28/2008 11:59:45 PM)
RT and Popeye. You both make valid points. Is the knowledge conferred by a degree in "French" going to qualify someone to do the work in a high paced bank? Maybe not, but then again...? There have been instances of municipal garbage collectors requiring a degree, simply to have a cutoff line for the many applicants for two or three positions. In a time of raising unemployment, one had best have as many tools in your belt as possible. I worked at a University for a number of years. During hard economic times, enrollment went up. These views are not mutually exclusive. Some professions need people with degrees. Some do not. dbg, whatever you do, don't try to hide what was/is in your transcript. If you fail to disclose a transcript, that is considered making a false statement, and usually grounds for termination. Dragon

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/29/2008 12:32:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Emperor1956 FR: This is not gentle. DBG, up until now, I was not going to reply to your posts, as katylied, cali and batshalom (among others) have given you sound, gentle advice that you review your tone and your behavior to see if you are causing this friction with your employer. And yet each time in each new post, in defense of your actions, you come up with an excuse, or cite your sad and difficult life (I am sorry your child is ill -- but does the world then owe you a job on your terms? And the fact that your love interest can only see you on weekends -- is that something an employer should account for?). I'm afraid I don't follow you on the world owing me a job on my terms thing. The whole hours employee is available to work thing is on job applications for a reason. I'm 34 years old so I was in the working world a good many years before starting college. This is the first time I have ever had anything like this happen. You refuse to be the least bit introspective. You refuse to consider that anyone in a position of authority could know a bit more about the job, could understand the expectations and could perhaps be motivated by anything other than mean-spiritedness against you. I wasn't aware that a human resource manager could know more about social work than licensed social workers. My job was supposed to be working closely with social workers to help clients, not cooking and cleaning. The EBE objectives were sent to the company. How was I supposed to know the company was going to ignore them? If social workers are supposed to cook and clean, why isn't a social work degree required to work in restaraunts? Tell me, if your account to us is unbiased, why do they all dislike you? Why are you singled out for this difficult treatment? Have you noticed that every time you encounter a person of authority in connection with this job, you are "wronged"? Even the HR person you just told us about had the temerity to remind you that the job is "cooking and cleaning" -- not teaching, or anything else you think you brought to the table. And of course she was discarded by you -- until -- oh MY! she turns out to be your evaluator. Who made the error there? The person who was supposed to evaluate me passed the whole thing on to a human resource manager who thinks students learn social work by cooking and cleaning. I discarded her because since she obviously didn't know anything about my EBE objectives sent by the school or about social work. My comment about looking forward to teaching the people was right in tune with my EBE objectives.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/29/2008 12:55:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Emperor1956 Tell me, if your account to us is unbiased, why do they all dislike you? Why are you singled out for this difficult treatment? When did I say everyone disliked me? As a matter of fact, I get along with my co-workers and one of my bosses quite well. Only 3 people dislike me there as far as I know and they all are in close contact with the HR manager. As for past jobs, I've generally gotten along well with management and have been given raises and good recommendations. In case you're wondering why I'm no longer at these companies, they closed down.

Maya2001 -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/29/2008 12:00:28 PM)
quote: They took so long with their new employee process that by the time they offered me hours, I had to take whatever I could get just so I could finish my EBE on time (EBE required certain # of hours). It was all on weekends. I accepted the weekend hours on a temporary basis until I could get something during the week and I made that clear. A couple of weeks later, weekdays were available and my boss said I could have them. The next day, I found out my boss's boss wanted to give them to someone else. I said I understood the mix-up and then asked nicely if they could please take me off every weekend when the next weekday hours were available. I was told everyone keeps the schedule they start with. When I reminded them I only accepted the weekend hours on a temporary basis, they did change my schedule. Then they decided to get a little revenge by giving me a bad evaluation. I think the part highlighted the key , you were one of the first ones hired .upset about and feel you should be entitled to the same rights as those hired sooner. It is not thier fault or yours ...just the way the cards fell but your handling of the situation may have been what has caused all the problems Most workplace operate on a seniority of hire basis, those that get hired earliest get their choice of hours those that come later take what is left over...they offered you what was left over ..you accepted because you needed those hours in, but tried to set your own rules. Was the person they gave the preferred hours to hired before you even if the same day?? If so they normally would have the right to refuse or accept. Yes it sucks to be farther down the hiring totem pole..but that is life...it does not matter what you said you wanted,..if your weren't happy with what was offered and can't except seniority rule that you should not have accepted...trying to bully what you want by stepping over the senority line(the rules are often unwritten --more of an etiquette of accepting your place in line) only serves to cause friction with other co-workers and management(not sure if this is the case when you forced the issue of not working the weekends). I work in a large industry that has about 3000 employees and every so often people play the excuse cards to get preferential hours or shifts, those that were entitled to it due to senority get pretty miffed and in turn take it out on their managers and it tends to have a trickle down effect which increase tension among a number of people who could have have moves if the upper senority person had gotten the opening rather than someone lower down the rung so it affects a number of people and it does poison the work environment. with screams of preferential treatment. The day I was hired , 120 got hired also , I fell in the middle of the pack, if some job or preferred time opens up, I would be dooming my self to tension with fellow employees and management if I used some excuse to get that position over the 60 that got hired the same day before me, I could do it but it would have ramafications, senority rule also means at times I will get the shit jobs or having to work overtime or weekends when I had other plans made, if I am lucky with my seniority the shit jobs , etc will roll past me to someone lower of the hiring rung, earlier this year after 18 years working there my senority left me with a lot more priviledges now the 500 got laid off this month, I got knocked down to having to work rotating shifts that I don't like and now having to take crappier work... I could find ways to cheat the unwritten system, to get better work and hours but I would have to ask myself if the price tag I will pay for doing so worth it, because it will piss off other co-workers who will take it on their managers and i will feel the pain of it eventually, it also outs the spotlight on me as I have drawn negative attention to myself, not a good thing if you are being assess for job performance. There are times I will make waves at work but I have learned to pick those battles very carefully as I know consequences normally follow as a result

julietsierra -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/29/2008 1:13:14 PM)
Well, first of all, you were getting experienced based education. They scheduled you for the time they needed you. Sometimes it's tough but that's the way things fall when you're actually working and not just in school. And just for your information, working overtime when your company needs you to is exactly what's sometimes called for in order to take care of your family. You made the decision to forego your education to stand for something that has ended up hurting you. I understand about being responsible for family members but as a student in a program you were in no position to argue their decisions beyond what you may have been able to negotiate on the front end. And even then, you were there for the education. Your education included the fact that quite often, the schedules of your place of employment do not match the schedules of your home life. You made the decision to place your home life first (not a bad decision, just not a good one considering what you were in that position for). Keeping a roof over your head is part of home life and you standing on a misplaced principle has placed that in jeopardy. You are reaping the consequences of that decision. I'm hoping - although so far, your posts are not reflecting it - that you've learned some lessons regarding your sense of your own importance as well as your sense of entitlement. You weren't owed anything by your site. You were there to learn something. You chose not to, except according to your own agenda. These days, eployment just does not work that way. They were doing you a favor - not the other way around. It might help your case with your college advisors if you come to this realization very soon and make sure you're communicating that in a responsible adult manner. Additionally, your experienced based educational site was looking for you to think on your own. This sounds like it was an important criteria for them - even if it wasn't necessarily on any rubric you received. Companies appreciate self- starters and your continual questions (so you didn't get things wrong) communicated to them that you were unsure of yourself and that your knowledge base wasn't what they'd hoped for. In terms of your abilities, they were expecting mistakes that you then would work to rectify. Instead, you communicated a lack of self confidence in yourself and an unwillingness to take responsibility for the errors you might have made. Now, that being said, you're going to have to mitigate some of what's happened here. First, I'd contact your advisors once again with a different mind-set. Make them aware of any other lessons you may have learned from this entire experience - including specifically your recognition that you were entitled to nothing more than an experience and if you had to work hours that were inconvenient, then that is what you should have done since you were engaged in a learning process. I'd also contact the career center at your college and ask them how this translates when you're putting together your employment portfolio. They may be able to do something, or you may be able to include a letter not only explaining what happened, but again, explaining the lessons you learned from your experience. That letter had better be chock full of life lessons and place no blame on your educational site or college otherwise it will continue to communicate a general unwillingness on your part to accept the consequences of your actions as well as your inability to behave in a responsible adult manner when things go wrong. Then (and this is iffy), I'd communicate with the company where you were placed. I'd be writing them a thank you letter letting them know that you understand your evaluation and that as a result of that evaluation you've learned some significant things about yourself and about what it takes to actually WORK in the field you've been training to enter. Keep it short. Keep it sweet. Keep it adult. Keep it business-like. Lay NO blame at their feet. Accept what you did not do and move on (remember, this is not a time to stand on some misplaced "I'm not going to allow them to take advantage of me" silly principle. You are fighting for your education and your degree. And as always, the choice is yours as to whether you throw all you've done away or try to find the gem of knowledge within your experience. It IS there. The choice as to whether you recognize it is up to you. juliet

Alumbrado -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/29/2008 4:07:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 . And, a Navy buddy of mine started a company called TeleCheck and is a multi millionaire. He was a Radioman in the Navy. This guy? Wow, I'm impressed, although I had gotten the impression that you were much younger... Thursday, September 19, 2002 Businessman Robert J. Baer, who founded Telecheck Inc., which became the world's largest check guarantee company, died Tuesday in Honolulu. He was 89. Baer was born in Pittsburgh on Oct. 27, 1912. *He graduated from the University of Pittsburgh* and moved to Wisconsin, where he became president of Alemite Co., an auto parts distributor. http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2002/Sep/19/ln/ln36a.html

batshalom -> RE: Am I ruined? In serious need of advice. (4/29/2008 6:30:54 PM)
dbg, I don't know what to tell you. I wish I did. Has anyone explained explicitly what you were supposed to have done? Did anyone say, "She has a bad attitude because of X?" so that you have some kind of direction? If not, perhaps you can ask directly (and, as with a Sir, politely and respectfully). I sincerely wish your son well and hope with all my heart that he makes a miraculous recovery. I am sorry that this is his (and your) reality.

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