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RE: Wright, NAACP - 5/1/2008 11:08:53 AM

Mercnbeth

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If you want to tie these two issues together it's simple.

Actions / Consequences

Stripped of all the rhetoric, the 'good intent', the "we're human and make mistakes", and even the juvenile reference "...but what about the children"; there are rules and there should be consequences enforced for actions contrary to those rules.

Senator Obama's actions and affiliation with Revered Wright served him well. He became a political force in Chicago, ultimately Illinois, ultimately nationally. His actions to get there including attending the church and subscribing to its dogma as evidenced by his well documented contributions. He had an agenda being played out in his Presidential campaign.

What he seems to have forgotten is Reverend Wright, and the NAACP for that matter also have an agenda. What would happen to the NAACP if it were perceived that equal rights had been achieved? What better indication of that than the election of Senator Obama to the highest office in the land? The Reverend is a believer of what he speaks. Again, the election of Senator Obama would be contra intuitive of his representation of "white America".

What is occurring today is a consequence of Senator Obama's failure to see that perspective. As a result, a potentially qualified and able man has about as much chance of being elected President as I do.

Actions / Consequence; pragmatically and universally applied - who can argue with the result. Who can even be sad for the person, knowledgeable and intelligent, who made the decisions which generated the result? Sometime you achieve the goal you were pointing to even if you had no idea what it was going in and never knew it was your intention. Most of the time, your fate rests in other peoples hands, the electorate or the CM Mods. In both cases the best advice to provide is learn from the experience.

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RE: Wright, NAACP - 5/1/2008 11:29:32 AM

cjan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

If you want to tie these two issues together it's simple.

Actions / Consequences

Stripped of all the rhetoric, the 'good intent', the "we're human and make mistakes", and even the juvenile reference "...but what about the children"; there are rules and there should be consequences enforced for actions contrary to those rules.

Senator Obama's actions and affiliation with Revered Wright served him well. He became a political force in Chicago, ultimately Illinois, ultimately nationally. His actions to get there including attending the church and subscribing to its dogma as evidenced by his well documented contributions. He had an agenda being played out in his Presidential campaign.

What he seems to have forgotten is Reverend Wright, and the NAACP for that matter also have an agenda. What would happen to the NAACP if it were perceived that equal rights had been achieved? What better indication of that than the election of Senator Obama to the highest office in the land? The Reverend is a believer of what he speaks. Again, the election of Senator Obama would be contra intuitive of his representation of "white America".

What is occurring today is a consequence of Senator Obama's failure to see that perspective. As a result, a potentially qualified and able man has about as much chance of being elected President as I do.

Actions / Consequence; pragmatically and universally applied - who can argue with the result. Who can even be sad for the person, knowledgeable and intelligent, who made the decisions which generated the result? Sometime you achieve the goal you were pointing to even if you had no idea what it was going in and never knew it was your intention. Most of the time, your fate rests in other peoples hands, the electorate or the CM Mods. In both cases the best advice to provide is learn from the experience.

Wha ? "Slick" how you try to "tie" together two issues and come out with a post that is 95% anti-Wright and anti-Obama.

Perhaps you do have a larger point, even though you don't seem to realize it. That point being that , perhaps, we would be better off judging people in the total context of their statements rather that cherry picking sound bites.

The mods and owners here do as they like and, imo, have a perfect right to. It's a free site and a good one, also, imo. What bugs me though, is that it seems that some posters get gagged for a period of time, repeatedly, while others get the death penalty. Granted, I don't know the history or behind the scenes dialogues and considerations that were in play. I acknowledge that and temper my opinion accordingly because I don't know.

In my case, personally, I have violated TOS on more than one occasion and, each time, been warned and not gagged. I also appreciate and acknowledge that.

Terms of Service mean just that. Free speach is allowed up until one violates TOS. The actions/consequences you refer to. However, perhaps this is a case where justice applied across the board should be considered.

Shit, nevermind, by that standard, I would be gone too.

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Post #: 142

RE: Wright, NAACP - 5/1/2008 11:31:33 AM

kittinSol

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You keep on singing the same tune, Merc. Here are some extracts from an article by Bob Cesca published in the Huffington Post two days ago. It's an opinion piece:

quote:

If the corporate media had been as diligent about watchdogging President Bush as they have been about watchdogging Reverend Wright, it's very likely we wouldn't have invaded Iraq.

Why are they, and you by extension, watching over Obama like a hawk circling over a prey more than on any of the other candidates? Because really, why does it matter so much to you what Wright says? And has it occurred to you that his words have not been reported accurately? Or do you simply not want to know?

quote:

All three major cable news networks are wasting valuable air time on Senator Obama's former pastor. Why? Is the story newsworthy? Sure. Is wall-to-wall Wright coverage more important than Iraq or gas prices or the climate crisis? No way. But Reverend Wright is a scary, shouting black man and scary shouting black men equal ratings-sweet-ratings.

Do you disagree that there's even just a tiny little grain of truth in the sentence highlighted above?

quote:

What about other white Republicans who have said equally crazy things? Pastor Hagee, who has endorsed Senator McCain, just recently claimed that God "damned" New Orleans. Add that statement to the anti-Semitic statements and the anti-Catholic statements and you've got yourself a controversy. But are the cable networks cutting to live coverage of Pastor Hagee for two hours at a stretch? Are ABC and Fox News going to question Senator McCain about his relationship with Hagee -- the same questions over and over again, backed with the same footage over and over again? Of course not.

The constant, around-the-clock coverage has become a race-baiting spectacle far beyond the realms of journalistic decency, honor and integrity, especially given the slag heap through which most Americans are marching right now -- a march which truly deserves wall-to-wall news coverage.

Huffington Post

Frankly, it's nothing short of appalling. But I believe this witch hunt makes the day of more than a few people. Perhaps you are one of them... rest assured that you are not alone.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 5/1/2008 11:32:43 AM >

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Post #: 143

RE: Wright, NAACP - 5/1/2008 11:43:02 AM

Hippiekinkster

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Well and truly said, kittykat. The more the RNC attack machine and Murdoch media keep trying to "Wrightboat" Obama, the firmer my resolve to vote for him.

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Post #: 144

RE: Wright, NAACP - 5/1/2008 12:01:21 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

Wha ? "Slick" how you try to "tie" together two issues and come out with a post that is 95% anti-Wright and anti-Obama.

How is posting a result prejudicial to anyone? The result is what it is. If you see it at 95% anti anyone - its your interpretation.

quote:

You keep on singing the same tune, Merc.

I strive for consistency unless/until I determined my position is incorrect or based upon incorrect information.

Thank you for the complement.

quote:

Why are they, and you by extension, watching over Obama like a hawk circling over a prey more than on any of the other candidates? Because really, why does it matter so much to you what Wright says? And has it occurred to you that his words have not been reported accurately? Or do you simply not want to know?

You are questioning why I have an opinion of Obama and Wright on a thread that's titled "Wright, NAACP" and 85% of the comments involve the Reverend specifically in context of Senator Obama?

I, and the rest of us, (and I've read all his books-have you?) know very little specially about Senator Obama's philosophy. What I do know is he represents the Reverend as his "mentor" and thinks (or at least thought) of him as a family member. I think that makes the Reverend important. If you don't - no problem. But what do you base your favorable position regarding the Senator? Change? What change?

And no, assuming you are speaking of Reverent Wright, his words, deeds, actions, have not been reported inaccurately. At his appearance at the National Press Club he confirmed them. How they are 'interpreted' is up to the individual voter.

quote:

Do you disagree that there's even just a tiny little grain of truth in the sentence highlighted above?

I have no disagreement in this part; "Is the story newsworthy? Sure"
I totally disagree with this; "But Reverend Wright is a scary, shouting black man and scary shouting black men equal ratings-sweet-ratings." Except how it relates to electing a man as President who describes him as his most powerful influence and mentor.

Huffington Post
The fact that this is an comparison at all is a function of a political agenda. Senator McCain is not a member of Pastor Hagee Church, has not contributed a dime to the church, and has not called Pastor Hagee an adviser, let alone Mentor and most influential in his life.

Although Senator McCain is LEAST likely to get my support let alone my vote.

In this case the "witch hunt" has three witches - it doesn't take any skill to find them, and is only a hunt akin to a stocked game farm for urban cowboys. It doesn't "make my day" - it disgusts me that any potential voter can feel positive about any of these candidates.

quote:

Frankly, it's nothing short of appalling.

The fact that we have these incompetent and unqualified individuals to select the next President is beyond appalling. To defend any speaks to an agenda and prejudice - Go right ahead.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 5/1/2008 12:02:56 PM >

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RE: Wright, NAACP - 5/1/2008 12:22:20 PM

kittinSol

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You may think all three candidates are equally bad, but you are consistent in that you attack one of them with more passion and virulence than the other two. Believe what you wish.

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RE: Wright, NAACP - 5/1/2008 12:44:59 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You may think all three candidates are equally bad, but you are consistent in that you attack one of them with more passion and virulence than the other two. Believe what you wish.

That is your opinion maybe they hit too close to your position and you find it difficult to respond to the opinion and prefer instead to direct your response to me personally. That's okay.

Or, perhaps it is because of the fact that there have been many more threads posted regarding one candidate, on your main source of reference and information - CM.

However you too - believe what you wish.

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RE: Wright, NAACP - 5/1/2008 2:48:43 PM

cjan

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quote:

Wha ? "Slick" how you try to "tie" together two issues and come out with a post that is 95% anti-Wright and anti-Obama.

quote:

How is posting a result prejudicial to anyone? The result is what it is. If you see it at 95% anti anyone - its your interpretation.

Wha? 2:
What "result" that you posted are you referring to ? I can't find one in your whole post.

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Post #: 148

RE: Wright, NAACP - 5/1/2008 2:56:31 PM

Mercnbeth

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Sorry,
Didn't realize you forgot we are talking about the resulting decline of Senator Obama's overall approval rating, his subsequent drop in the polls, his less likely chance of election.

I'd view those as significant results, or consequences, of decisions and actions.

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Post #: 149

RE: Wright, NAACP - 5/1/2008 3:32:39 PM

cjan

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Well, sir, the discussion in this thread has been all over the place, hasn't it ? I still fail to see how what you posted at the top of the page is in anyway reflective of an "Action/Consequences" , cause and effect or " posting a result " situation. No, what you have taken for reality and facts are nothing more or less than your interpretation of events and opinions and those results in forming your own opinion. Just as you have accused others of doing.

Keep in mind also, please, that the candidates, all of them, are under scrutiny and a spot light that makes me wonder how many of us would survive the same experience. Can you explain all the apparent connections, friendships and actions in your past ? I can't , certainly not to everyone's satisfaction This is a game of propaganda and mud slinging and nut cutting that is a no holds barred, winner take all, bury the loser process.

So, the political parties continue to inflame and distract the electorate ( you and me ) from the vital issues of our time and exhaust us in silly race, gender and age of candidates issues, etc, etc, ad nauseum. When are we all gonna wise up ?

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RE: Wright, NAACP - 5/1/2008 3:49:02 PM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I strive for consistency unless/until I determined my position is incorrect or based upon incorrect information.

I'm sure many people would say the same.....

But the information about Wright (as well as the candidates) has been repeatedly demonstrated to have been fabricated or distorted beyond all recognition... if people can't tell the difference between slurs, myths, hoaxes and facts, whatever conclusions they reach fit squarely into the category of 'getting the government we deserve'.

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Post #: 151

RE: Wright, NAACP - 5/1/2008 3:55:59 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

I still fail to see how what you posted at the top of the page is in anyway reflective of an "Action/Consequences" , cause and effect or " posting a result " situation. No, what you have taken for reality and facts are nothing more or less than your interpretation of events and opinions and those results in forming your own opinion. Just as you have accused others of doing.

Can't help with your inability to see the relationship.

From my vantage point, the electable trend of Senator Obama has gone down as more of his relationship and affiliation with Reverend Wright has come to be know.

That position is my interpretation and opinion is backed up by outside information:

quote:

It's probably no coincidence that Barack Obama revved up the John Deere and ran over and over and over again pastor Jeremiah Wright yesterday hours after a poll made a major splash.

And then yesterday morning came word that Survey USA was releasing a poll showing Hillary Clinton had pulled to within five points of Obama in North Carolina. If his margin of victory was five or less next Tuesday, then the Clinton campaign could steal the Obama Pennsylvania line about winning by keeping it close in North Carlina.
Source: http://primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/11401

quote:

If SurveyUSA Is On Target, We're Seeing a Dramatic Shift
After seeing the Survey USA poll showing Hillary within 5 percent of Obama in North Carolina, I decided to go back to see how that firm had done in recent Democratic contests. In Pennsylvania, Survey USA's last poll had Hillary 50, Obama 44. The final numbers in the Keystone State were 54.6 percent to 45.4 percent.
In Ohio, Survey USA's last poll had it Hillary 54, Obama 44. That almost nailed it, as the final numbers there were 54.2 percent to 44.1 percent.
In Texas, Survey USA's last poll had Obama ahead, 49 to 48. Hillary won that state, but it was indeed close, 50.9 percent to 47.4 percent. They had Hillary two points too low, and Obama about 1.5 percent too high.
So while Survey USA is the only one putting North Carolina in single digits, their track record lately suggests we shouldn't expect them to be too far off the final results. Also note that Survey USA puts Hillary ahead in Indiana by 9 percent.
Source: http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWVlZGViYjllZGY0NGJhZjE0MTgyZGZhZDZjOGQ4MTU=

Granted its a poll, but not one I made up to prove my point.

Based upon Reverend Wright's National Press Conference showing and the response by Senator Obama; based upon integrity alone, the Reverend would prevail head to head. Whether I agree with his position or not, I appreciate his honesty and the confidence he has in his position. Senator Obama meanwhile is trying to make us believe this is all news to him.

I thought the ambition was to have a more astute person in the White House? At best the Senator will only be there for 8 years. If he didn't know what was going on in the Church he attended and supported for 20 years; how likely is it he'll find out what's going on in the White House in particular and Washington in general, considering he's only been in the Senate for 4 years. He has 16 to go just to figure out he may be as wrong there as he was about his Church and Revered. I don't think the US can afford such as low grade learning curve.

quote:

the political parties continue to inflame and distract the electorate ( you and me ) from the vital issues of our time and exhaust us in silly race, gender and age of candidates issues, etc, etc, ad nauseum. When are we all gonna wise up ?

Don't know - I don't base my support on any of those issues. Why do you, or did you pose the question rhetorically?

Personally, I don't plan on voting for any incumbent. What's your plan?

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RE: Wright, NAACP - 5/1/2008 5:31:36 PM

cjan

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As usual, I plan to vote for the lesser of two evils since that is the traditional choice that is given the electorate. Even so, when the lesser of two evils wins, at the end of the day, evil has still won.To vote for an unelectable third party candidate, given that he/she cannot win, is a futile and meaningless excercise.

As I said, this situation will never change until we have basic campaign finance reform and, imo, the best form that could take is publicly funded elections.

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RE: Wright, NAACP - 5/1/2008 6:43:58 PM

LotusSong

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

What he seems to have forgotten is Reverend Wright, and the NAACP for that matter also have an agenda. What would happen to the NAACP if it were perceived that equal rights had been achieved? What better indication of that than the election of Senator Obama to the highest office in the land? The Reverend is a believer of what he speaks. Again, the election of Senator Obama would be contra intuitive of his representation of "white America".

.

Actually, EITHER one would represent that "equality was achieved" Ya got 2 minorities battling it out.

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