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RE: Female As Whore - 5/1/2008 8:22:01 AM   
Inshiningarmor


Posts: 3
Joined: 8/11/2007
Status: offline 		No matter how sadistic a Dom can be... no matter how controlling a Dom can be... there has to be love and respect for a sub.    Part of that love and respect is knowing when something will break them.   The same words said in the heat of passion that can drive a sub crazy, can destroy their self esteem in public.    Any Master should see his sub as a part of who he is... an extension of him, he is responscible for the way that person is and how she percieves herself.   If he can go into public and tear down HIS sub ... then he is living testement to how little he should be a Master.

Subs give control to their Masters, most times with no regaurds to themselves.   It is a Masters/Dom's responcibility to look out for the health of their sub... physical, mental, spritiual, and EMOTIONAL.    Your Master forgot the one that most men in the world loose women for. 

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Female As Whore - 5/1/2008 8:40:27 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeedDivinus
When someone says they like humiliation, however, I tend to think they're really saying, "I like humiliation I'm comfortable with"—which isn't really humiliation at all, but role play. Degradation seems a simpler concept to me. It seems easier to degrade than humiliate the willing.



I found that an interesting concept - only liking humiliation one is comfortable with - and I suppose that is true in many cases, although when he humiliates me in that "comfortable" way, I do not find it to be role playing.  He's simply telling me what is, and it reduces my psyche in that moment.

What perplexed me was your comment about being easier to degrade.  As someone who is both degraded and humiliated, and quite often, I'm not sure where you're coming from.  Degradation can be tricky business, as I believe it has the potential to be more damaging.  Or are you speaking of careless degradation?

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to SeedDivinus)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Female As Whore - 5/1/2008 9:15:32 AM   
FlamingRedhead


Posts: 451
Joined: 3/4/2007
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		I did, too!  Things that make ya go "hmmm."  It's hard to explain, but just because I enjoy it doesn't make it any less humiliating or "fake" in some way.  Degradation is one of those things that can be very damaging emotionally, so I have limits at to what I will tolerate being called.  Fat, stupid or ugly just to name a few.  I wouldn't find it the least bit erotic to hear, "Get your fat ass over here you stupid worthless cunt!"
 
*waiting with ownedgirlie for reply*

_____________________________

I'm so addicted to
All the things you do
When you're going down on me
In between the sheets
Or the sound you make
With every breath you take
It's unlike anything
When you're loving me

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Female As Whore - 5/1/2008 9:34:25 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		That quote seems to say that no dom can ever be into objectification. Because really, isn't that what the whore stereotype is? Just an object to be used sexually. Guess there goes that idea of him spreading ice cream and chocolate syrup over me. After all I'd be reduced to an object, a dessert dish in this case. Or is it okay to have someone be a footstool, another object, or a sushi platter, or an ashtray, or an art object, any object as long as it's non sexual? Who makes these rules up?

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to FlamingRedhead)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Female As Whore - 5/1/2008 9:59:59 AM   
FlamingRedhead


Posts: 451
Joined: 3/4/2007
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		I suppose it depends on whether the submissive in question wants to be reduced to nothing more than an object for "more than a minute."  I don't understand how that can possibly be healthy for either the dominant or submissive, but I don't profess to understand everything about BDSM.  I know I wouldn't find a relationship very fulfilling if I was never treated as if I have any feelings whatsoever.
 
A man who obtains the services of a whore doesn't worry about whether or not she enjoys sex.  He uses her, and he despises her at the same time.  It's not sexy.  It's not glamorous.  She's a disposable item to be used and thrown away, more dirty than when he found her.  The men scouring this site with the attitude that submissives are disposable whores are not dominants.  They don't have a need to control anyone, including themselves, or to be responsible for the feelings of others.  In his mind, if she's stupid enough to fall for his lies, she deserves whatever's coming to her.

_____________________________

I'm so addicted to
All the things you do
When you're going down on me
In between the sheets
Or the sound you make
With every breath you take
It's unlike anything
When you're loving me

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Female As Whore - 5/1/2008 10:22:19 AM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Inshiningarmor

No matter how sadistic a Dom can be... no matter how controlling a Dom can be... there has to be love and respect for a sub.    Part of that love and respect is knowing when something will break them.   The same words said in the heat of passion that can drive a sub crazy, can destroy their self esteem in public.    Any Master should see his sub as a part of who he is... an extension of him, he is responscible for the way that person is and how she percieves herself.   If he can go into public and tear down HIS sub ... then he is living testement to how little he should be a Master.

Subs give control to their Masters, most times with no regaurds to themselves.   It is a Masters/Dom's responcibility to look out for the health of their sub... physical, mental, spritiual, and EMOTIONAL.    Your Master forgot the one that most men in the world loose women for. 


Nicely stated!

_____________________________

m i s t r e s s d o l l y . c o m

m y s p a c e


(in reply to Inshiningarmor)
Profile   Post #: 46
Where is the Ego? - 5/1/2008 11:17:21 AM   
Floggings4You


Posts: 240
Joined: 12/18/2006
Status: offline 		My submissive and I discussed this subject in depth early in O/our relationship.  (We've been seeing each O/other since January.) 
 
I've never understood why a man would need to call 'His' woman 'worthless', 'whore', 'slut', etc., during sex.  It doesn't turn Me on (let alone stroke My ego) to think that the only reason My lady is with Me is because she's a 'slut' (who would be happy to fuck any random stranger she might meet on the street.)  As for 'whore', well, I hope that My submissive is with Me for more reasons than the fact that I take her to out to dinner frequently, help her around the house, mow her yard, etc. 
 
Lastly, as far as 'worthless' goes, again My own ego prevents Me from viewing her as 'worthless'.  I think of Myself as being more than capable of seducing far better than 'worthless' women (if there even are such creatures--which I doubt). 

(in reply to MistressDolly)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Female As Whore - 5/1/2008 11:25:09 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Midori talks about humiliation in her new book The Wild Side of Sex and it is the best bit about how to do it that I know of.

She speaks of pillars that support our image of ourselves, some you can take down and the structure stands, others if you undermine them you undermine some one's self image.  Knowing which is which is key and she goes on in some detail, it is as good as Dossie's discussion of Jealousy in The Ethical Slut.

Telling a fat woman that she is a fucking cow and you are going to roll her in flower to find the wetspot so you can fuck her is a good example of humiliation.  IF you hear that as "he knows I am fat, wants to find my cunt and is looking forward to fucking me" then it can be hot.  If  you hear it as "I am ugly and worthless" then it is going to take you to a bad place and leave you there.

BSB is a gorgeous creature and is used to getting her way with a wink and a smile.  I love turning that on its head and throwing it back at her.  For me, it evokes feelings of telling every hot women who tries that "fuck you bitch" as well as "I am man enough that I have one of these already" and other fun stuff.  She gets reinforcement that I am not going to be a pushover, that I am in control AND reinforcing her self image as a woman and all sorts of other yummy stuff.

That is why "slut" and "whore" often work.  By calling a woman sex related pejoratives you are reinforcing her status as a sex object, an object of desire to you, you allow her to go to a place society has sent her for those feelings but with acceptance because you are still there with her AND you want her there and so you are also rejecting society's guilt that they have oppressed her with, etc.

As I was writing this I was wondering what sort of "humiliation" I would find erotic.  I know that one of the things I enjoy is that "talking dirty" and humiliation creates an image of my partner as this glorious sex object who is so turned on by little ole me (and yes, even I have my insecurities) and who is a crazed sex fiend because and for me is something that just pushes me over the edge.  I guess it doesn't work in my direction, I was thinking of  things like "please dear god don't force it in without lube  you sadistic fuck" aren't humiliating but it is working in a similar way. 

Interesting, going to have to mull this over...

(in reply to MistressDolly)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Female As Whore - 5/1/2008 11:29:30 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		This is one reason I really get off on locking women's cunts up in diapers and chastity belts.

It pretty much turns the whole "Pussy power" trip on it's head.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Female As Whore - 5/1/2008 2:04:51 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FlamingRedhead

A man who obtains the services of a whore doesn't worry about whether or not she enjoys sex.  He uses her, and he despises her at the same time.  It's not sexy.  It's not glamorous.  She's a disposable item to be used and thrown away, more dirty than when he found her. 


Depends on the man. I highly doubt you've spoken in depth to the majority of men or women who employ sex workers or those who have worked as sex workers.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to FlamingRedhead)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Female As Whore - 5/1/2008 2:42:41 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: FlamingRedhead

A man who obtains the services of a whore doesn't worry about whether or not she enjoys sex. He uses her, and he despises her at the same time. It's not sexy. It's not glamorous. She's a disposable item to be used and thrown away, more dirty than when he found her.


Depends on the man. I highly doubt you've spoken in depth to the majority of men or women who employ sex workers or those who have worked as sex workers.


I would have to second that. While I'm certain a percentage of men may see escorts or prostitutes in the light mentioned above, assuming this is the way it is with all men is antiquated, naive, pessimistic, and just plain wrong. Broad brushes are never accurate brushes.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Female As Whore - 5/1/2008 4:35:05 PM   
MadameXTC


Posts: 96
Joined: 9/30/2004
Status: offline 		for me.. I enjoy being called names in the throws of passion.. and when it is done lovingly so. The timing is key in everything, and lemme not forget the emphasis that you say it with when you are saying it. dirty names can take on so many different meanings with just the way they are said. :) Name calling would have to be in relation to something deeper for it to hurt me. Also there is a key to respect. You can show someone you respect them and care for them while they are your whore at the same time

_____________________________

"Dominance is best viewed through a submissive's actions"

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Female As Whore - 5/1/2008 5:17:48 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		This looks like a hot thread, so I responding to the post and backing out, respectfully.

Part of my play with My Pet is based on her being a slut, and given around, and other forms of (usually) sexual degradation.  Sure, she's humiliated when she has to bounce on a scooterball, but that's not what's on trial here.

Peachum makes a good point.  Whoring out a girly does not make her submissive.  But here she ignores that a good dominant can use the degradation as a tool of dominance.

It's not about them, it's about us.  If I give My Pet to other people, be it 1,2, or 15, the statement I hope to convey is not "She's a slut." it's "Her sexuality belong to me." 

Personally, the harder the play, the more thorough the cuddle time is.  That's what we call subdown and aftercare and all that jazz.  I recognize that for some couples, aftercare is not used/needed/wanted.  With us, it is. 

If I had to guess, it's the fact that I use My Pet for more than sex.  I consult with her, I joke with her, I watch movies and play videogames with her.  Those are the times that build the love needed for her to stay in what could be an abusive relationship*.

*abusive relationship if you only looked at the times I degrade her, use her, give her away, etc.


_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to FlamingRedhead)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Female As Whore - 5/1/2008 6:00:12 PM   
MasterSteel007


Posts: 54
Joined: 2/13/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FlamingRedhead

quote:

"Any man who can get off for more than a minute on the erotic image of female as whore is not a dominant. That image is a pure vanilla fantasy that reduces the female to an object of masterbation. The whole idea of it is to dehumanize the object, so that the male has nothing to be concerned about.  He doesn't have to think, to understand, to be skillful, to feel, to experience any degree of intimacy apart from the meeting of genitals, to sustain a relationship."  Qualities of a Successful Dominant by Polly Peachum

 
To all the successful dominants, how do you walk the line between humiliation and degradation when using words like "whore" and "slut" to address your submissive?  My last dominant wasn't particularly successful since I'm no longer with him.  I went from feeling like his treasure to feeling like his skanky booty call.  What lengths do you go to in a relationship or a session to ensure that your submissive partner doesn't begin to believe that's all she/he is to you, especially when many people are struggling with self-esteem issues?  I know my self-worth although it can be a struggle at times, which is part of the reason I got out of the relationship, but I also love humiliation.  I'm interested to find out how others are able to balance showing respect and making your submissive a wanton harlot.


Actually, I don't use those words when I am dominating a sub...
I tend to use sweet words and endearing words as I have her
on the bed on her knees and I am slowly tearing her stockings wide open....

_____________________________

"Thank You Sir, May I have another?"

(in reply to FlamingRedhead)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Female As Whore - 5/1/2008 7:44:19 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FlamingRedhead

A man who obtains the services of a whore doesn't worry about whether or not she enjoys sex.  He uses her, and he despises her at the same time.  It's not sexy.  It's not glamorous.  She's a disposable item to be used and thrown away, more dirty than when he found her.  The men scouring this site with the attitude that submissives are disposable whores are not dominants.  They don't have a need to control anyone, including themselves, or to be responsible for the feelings of others.  In his mind, if she's stupid enough to fall for his lies, she deserves whatever's coming to her.


This is a very narrow and hostile point of view.

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to FlamingRedhead)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Female As Whore - 5/1/2008 7:45:52 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Speaking as a whore myself who specialized in the "girlfriend experience" I'd have to say I know firsthand that many men who engage in whoring DO worry about the other person enjoying the sex, do not despise her and can often enjoy an ongoing relationship with them.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Female As Whore - 5/2/2008 6:57:36 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Speaking as a whore myself who specialized in the "girlfriend experience" I'd have to say I know firsthand that many men who engage in whoring DO worry about the other person enjoying the sex, do not despise her and can often enjoy an ongoing relationship with them.


As someone who used to pay for sex on occasion, Johns come in all forms and I think LA's comment is far closer to the truth.  Gee, don't you ever watch CatHouse on Cable?   

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Female As Whore - 5/2/2008 7:12:24 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		Merc, SimplyMichael and others mentioned the preface "my" before such terms as whore being the difference between a positive experience and a negative one. and for many i'm aware that this may be true. however my Master believes strongly in only calling me things that he feels i actually am. so if he calls me whore, he does not say "my whore", he simply says whore, because that is what i literally am, what he has made of me and can make of me at any moment. He has loaned me out to others for profit, that certainly makes me a whore. when he calls me slut, it is because i have always been very easy and promiscuous, any man who makes the effort can use my body because i do not resist. a slut, absolutely. so while of course i am his, i am also what i am....a girl, a slave, a slut, a whore.

as for walking the line between humiliation and degradation, sometimes degradation of the sub/slave can be good and beneficial to a D/s relationship. being degraded can not only serve as a reminder of one's place, but may also be a stark reminder of one's helplessness and powerlessness in the relationship or in life in general. that is why my Master degrades me, it is one of many things that strengthens our M/s bond. and yes, of course it will be difficult to bear in the moment and there have certainly been times when my Master has mentally and emotionally brutalized me to the point where i've sunk into deep depressions, feeling hopeless and worthless, totally broken. but it is at that point when a good Master gradually builds the sub/slave back up and shows them that their value and beauty is not despite one's lowly place in the world, but because of it.


(in reply to batshalom)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Female As Whore - 5/3/2008 8:32:46 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

What perplexed me was your comment about being easier to degrade. As someone who is both degraded and humiliated, and quite often, I'm not sure where you're coming from. Degradation can be tricky business, as I believe it has the potential to be more damaging. Or are you speaking of careless degradation?


Humiliation is making someone feel incredibly ashamed and foolish, to the point they truly loose their dignity and self-respect. To be humiliated isn't a nice feeling, and it seems odd to juxtapose humiliation and degradation in such as way as to say one is "healthy" or "favorable" and the other isn't.

Those who find so-called "humiliation" enjoyable tend to be rather resiliant people who are in reality pretty bold and comfortable in their own skin, thus making the "humiliation" really an exotic psychodynamic romp in which they are getting attention (albeit unorthadox). Take them out of their comfort zones, however, and see what happens. This is not to say some people don't like actual humiliation and have developed a complex psychological appreciation for it, but I find it rare, not to mention neither here nor there toward the goal of authentic submission.

I believe slaves who are regularly humiliated are simply obeying their Keepers. The pleasure they derrive from it is the end result of amusement in the one they serve, as if to say, "Though this is painful and tremendously difficult, I enjoy whatever sacrifice I must make in body or mind to amuse you, to make you happy." In my opinion, this is not the same as "liking humiliation", however.

As a Keeper, I have found humiliation to be balanced upon psychological context. It depends upon the disposition of the subjects and their reaction to certain situations. Each individual is different, and will react to or perceive things differently. Degradation, however, is perhaps more externally defined. I suppose it's easiest to say that while I degrade a subject, that subject may or may not be humiliated per say—he or she might even enjoy it. Regardless, anyone can clearly see the subject is being degraded, which is to say, treated with disrespect, lowered in station, or generally dehumanized.

This idea is slippery because it's hard to really define where humiliation ends and degradation begins. The two are often inextricably linked, but not always, particularly among those who eroticize domination and submission.


(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Female As Whore - 5/4/2008 1:46:58 AM   
variation30


Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline
quote:


 
By the way, you could take your own advice about making assumptions.  Erotic humiliation has no effect on my self-esteem whatsoever.  I don't need "MY" in front of anything to make it okay.  I was asking how other people treat their submissives so that misunderstandings don't occur in a relationship or how they bring her back around, so to speak, if they're just playing.  I'm sorry if you didn't understand the questions.


I wasn't necessarily directing the whole 'my' thing at you but at the general comments on the difference the genitive makes to certain terms of endearment.

quote:

A man who obtains the services of a whore doesn't worry about whether or not she enjoys sex.  He uses her, and he despises her at the same time.  It's not sexy.  It's not glamorous.  She's a disposable item to be used and thrown away, more dirty than when he found her.


...what? are you really going to bring these kinds of generalizations to a discussion?

quote:

The men scouring this site with the attitude that submissives are disposable whores are not dominants.


you are going to have a difficult time separating men and their view of women as sexual objects. sorry. we see an aesthetically pleasing female and think of her as an aesthetic object. we do the same to anything else that looks nice. it does not mean that we view someone as inferior or disposable or that we despise them, it's just simply how we go about things. don't assume objectification is a negative way to look at another individual.


_____________________________

all the good ones are collared or lesbians.

or old.

(in reply to FlamingRedhead)
Profile   Post #: 60
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