RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle

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LadyRainfire -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 3:44:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit FR On some more thought, it really kind of amazes me when people act surprised that there is a lot of weird and creepy Internet entites floating around on a website that focuses on a wide wariety of dark and twisted fetishes. We're not exactly at the Betty Croeker Home Cooking Discussion forums... [&o] Darn it, this isn't Betty Crocker's Home Cooking Discussion forums? Did I get into the wrong group again? I was looking for a chicken pot pie ala submissive recipe..... winks Seriously, Geoff, if you want to leave, no one is going to make you stay, only you can make that decision. I can tell you that I have stepped back from BDSM before at times in my life when I needed to and taken breaks, sometimes up to a year or two. I've always been drawn back though, this is part of who I am, and who I always will be. There are horrible people in and out of BDSM, doing horrible things. Just read the newspaper or watch the news. I think it's more likely to hear of some things here because we're more open. There's more chance to open up online than you might in person so perhaps we share more here. But whatever the reason, we do share and vent here in the forums. And play with the drama llamas. winks How you take this is up to you and what you do is up to you. Good luck.

BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 3:51:08 AM)
WE are considering leaving the LS behind or at the very least take a very big step back,WE no longer attend National events nor local ones primarily because I have sour on the whole idea,Shes a social butter fly and I have become more of a stay at homer here lately,so we shall see how things go..

Dnomyar -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 4:29:30 AM)
I can see what the Op and Bountyhunter and a few others are talking about. It is mostly about change in attitudes. A lot of it is brought up by all the BS on here. You go into this with rose colored glasses then the rose color fades away and reality sets in. I believe that most people have good intentions when they come into the LS but they never really follow up on them. Some look at it as an alternative dating service. Whatever. To each their own.

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 4:42:19 AM)
Geoff, I think any social group attracts it's share of extremist, weirdo and wackos. Be it with BDSM, Religion, AD&D gaming conventions. Just pick any activitity in life locate the social groups or community of people involved in it, and you'll find there will be a slice of the insane people. Even with Motocross and Rock climbing, believe it or not. Sure Geoff, you can somewhat leave the lifestyle and not associate with it, however, you'll probally still have a natural tendancy to do BDSM things. Basically, just because you run from the lifestyle does not really change you as the person you are. For a number of years, I did not officially associate myself with the lifestyle. This really did not change shit about the thoughts inside my head, my fantasies, my kinky desires, and really well did not automatically make me any less Dom. If anything, I found myself fighting with a new set of challenges of how to not want to be in control or dealing with control issues, why? Because me not associating with something did not mean it was not part of who and what I am. It's a little bit of a challenge, when you have been in a non-lifestyle relationship, and the girl you are with confronts you about control. Yeah, then having to acknowledge it for what it, yes babe, I know I have a tendancy to take control of things. This is part of my personality, along with being a kinky bastard. Sure one can avoid the use of labels such as BDSM and associating themselves officially with the lifestyle, however does it really change what and who we are? Not really... Geoff, if you can manage to go vanilla and not have BDSM oozzing out from under your closest door, best of luck to you. Then there's always the dreaded conversation about past relationships to deal with, which I find difficult to deal with at times. Such as trying to avoid talking much about a M/s relationship, or whatever because of trying to no longer personally associate with the lifestyle. Oh well, screw it, I think many people in this lifestyle have had their share of vanilla relationships as well as lifestyle relationships. So it's a little easier to communicate openly with others. Besides Geoff, if you no longer associate yourself with the lifestyle, and you consider yourself somewhat sane and one of the good people. What would happen if more and more of Good people simply packed it in on the lifestyle? Who would be left? In all honestly, leaving and walking away from something does not make it any better, not unless you are a problem yourself. A few things to think about here. You honestly don't have to associate yourself with the lifestyle, but does it really change who and what you are?

OldBastardly1 -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 5:00:12 AM)
Short, fast answer. Yes...get the fuck out. Or stop whining like a little bitch.

Madame4a -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 5:04:44 AM)
Everyday? Where in your city? Wow.. I'd leave the city. Nationwide? Worldwide? I mean.. really, where do you get your stats? Honestly, if you can't find the balance in your life and put things into perspective, have at it... but life is about balance and perspective... you could say people are hurt everyday just from living... cause they are... and I have to admit.. I'm with OB1 here -- you've been doing a lot of whining and not just in this thread

GabrielleSlave -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 5:04:45 AM)
Any life is what you make it. Vanilla or BDSM, there are folk everywhere who will piss you off.... shrugs and goes off to talk to a real child who talks more sense at 3 than the OP Gabrielle x

IronBear -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 5:17:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: youngsubgeoff Ive been sitting here thinking for a long time... Im seriously thinking about packing it in and just not associating with the lifestyle anymore. Why? Because every day, someone is hurt because of it. People are abused, debased, robbed of everything in they're lives. People are scammed, lied to, all the time. I knew people that have killed themselves over this. Why? There are so many wonderful things to see, but theres just as many, if not more, pitfalls. Is there some part of this lifestlye that appeals to the insane? Does the BDSM community at large sort of look the other way when these things happen? Im not saying these things dont happen in the vanilla world, but they seem to happen more often and to a more extreme degree in the lifestyle. Again, the questions flood my mind. Do I want to be involved with that? Do I want to condone that? Looks like no sleep again tonight... Instead of quitting, why not take a break and when you have settled, take a look on the thing in BDSM you do like and focus on them. Leave thoose who you are not happy with and mix with those who you have respect for. I understand your idea of quitting, I've been there before and am seriously considering quitting all BDSM areas myself and just staying true to the Victorian Lifestyle which like Gor does not depend on either BDSM or slavery (subbery too). Iron Bear Master of Bruin Cottage (A Victorian Lifestyle poly home) "I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)

RavenMuse -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 5:20:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: youngsubgeoff Because every day, someone is hurt because of it. People are abused, debased, robbed of everything in they're lives. People are scammed, lied to, all the time. I knew people that have killed themselves over this. If you think the 'why' is because of the lifestyle then you are very nieve... the same thing happens in vanilla society too, it isn't 'special' to WIITWD. Where are you going to run away to next once you have found you get lied to by some vanilla gal? People are people and some people are liars, users, thieves, scammers.... the same percentage here as out there.

sirsholly -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 5:29:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: youngsubgeoff People are abused, debased, robbed of everything in they're lives. People are scammed, lied to, all the time. I knew people that have killed themselves over this. Why? There are so many wonderful things to see, but theres just as many, if not more, pitfalls. Again, the questions flood my mind. Do I want to be involved with that? Do I want to condone that? the behavior you are complaining about is not exclusive to BDSM. It happens everywhere..yet you state by being a part of the BDSM lifestyle you are involved/condoning it. This raises a concern in my mind...when you become vanilla and find out that there are still liers, scammers, abusers, etc are you going to cease the vanilla lifestyle rather then be involved and condone it? Where will you go then? You face a rough road with your attitude. I wish you luck.

lauren0221 -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 5:46:14 AM)
I am having some challenges in my job. One of my bosses is being a dick. I am not leaving the workforce because there are assholes in it. I am not willing to give up employment because not every boss and coworker lives up to the standards of what I think they should be. People also get hurt because they went to school, or drove their car, or fell in the shower. Lifestyles don't hurt people, people hurt people. Hang around with better ones.

themischievous1 -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 6:00:25 AM)
I think there can be a lot of "broken" people attracted to BDSM and wiitwd. Many have been abused and thus find it natural to have that abuse continued. Abuse has become the norm in their life for these people and now this abuse is sexualized and they need to be abused or abuse to be able to get turned on. I find this to be simply sad but it is just part of this. All that can be done to help people like this is to better educate everyone about their choices in life and what they deserve as a well functioning human being in this world. Something I really don't care for, though, are those who are in it for the convenience, essentially. In other words, there are those who basically just want an unpaid maid to do their laundry, pick up their house and give them a piece of ass whenever they say the word. They want to be able to freely boss someone around and have a person at their beck and call. They are control freaks that tend to call themselves "Doms/Dommes," but they have no intention of really educating themselves on what the labels are about or putting any of the definitions into practice. These are ego driven, selfish, self centered people who really just want someone to do their bidding out of pure laziness and there is little dominant about them, in my opinion. This is the "dominant" who is flat broke and down on his luck, who has some poor submissive used to being abused out working and paying all of the bills while he sits around on the computer all day, probably hunting new submissives to do and add to the mix, under the guise of his "dominance." Then there are the "kinksters." These people will also refer to themselves as dominant or submissive but they aren't into power exchange or D/s. They are pretty much only into the sexual "playing." They are into getting off. It's all about sexual gratification with these people and purely about using another person as a friend with benefits. And that's all well and fine if that's their choice, but these are not what I consider to be Doms/Dommes, submissives, or switches. These are people that are just in it for the sexual good times. They don't desire a relationship. It's just for the sexual gratification. Again, these people need to make that clear and not refer to themselves as something they are not because they mislead that they want a serious long term investment-relationship when they don't. People on both sides of the slash get hurt when that happens. Now when you remove all of the above that are posing as serious or simply pass them by, I think what is left are intriguing and admirable and that what is left are those who make up the actual "lifestyle." The rest is just window dressing that no one really takes very seriously..the only problem with the window dressing is that sometimes it is so damaged and broken that it gives the real thing a bad name; hence the Doms/Dommes, submissives, and switches that are disillusioned, cynical, and bitter, who've been around the block a million times just trying to sort out the true from the false. And they feel frustrated -- and with good reason. One has to look at all of this realistically and find where he or she fits. It also helps if you really don't give a damn what anyone else thinks about you and are true to yourself, first and foremost. This is key to making sense of all of this, at least in my experience.

dawntreader -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 6:12:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I'm wondering if you're also planning on leaving the human race? Try taking off the ultra-focused glasses and allow the disillusionment to feed your understanding, not break you. i agree - excellent advice [:)]

mistoferin -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 6:15:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: youngsubgeoff Do I want to be involved with that? Do I want to condone that? You're right, there are a lot of really messed up people involved in this....there are a lot of really messed up people in life outside of this too. Do you involve yourself with them outside of this? Do you condone what they do outisde of this? Why would you think you have to here? I'm very active in my local communities. I don't involve myself with people who are whacked out or condone what they do....or tolerate it....or accept it. That's the cool thing. YOU don't have to associate with anyone YOU don't want to.....here.....or outside of here.

Real_Trouble -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 6:25:27 AM)
A couple of thoughts: There is a difference between not associating with the "lifestyle" and not having an interest in BDSM. For instance, you're more likely to find me hopping out of a plane without a parachute than you are to find me at a munch, but I'm still a BDSM 'practicioner', if you will. The few places where people clump together in poorly organized groups do not represent the broader block who have an interest in this kind of thing. You will also always find a disproportionate number of idiots anywhere on the internet; there is a level of anonymity and lack of reprecussions that allows people to behave in a spectacularly stupid manner. That is simple fact, so don't be surprised by it. Third, quote: Im not trying to be offensive, but it seems to me that there is a higher percentage of fucked up people in this lifestyle. You know, much as it is an unpopular view, I tend to agree with you on this. Subcultures in general always seem to have the potential to collect a good bit of detritus, but BDSM in particular seems to have a talent for it. I would agree there are more fucked up people than average (or that, at least, they are more obvious about it) in the BDSM 'communities', so my advice would be look beyond the official communities. There's a reason I use CM pretty much only to bullshit on forums.

Phoenix2raven -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 6:32:04 AM)
When you hang out on the fringe you are bound to see more bad things happen more often. Just because there is more of it doesn't mean you should leave it. Try this instead, stay and become a support to those who have been hurt. Every lifestyle has its asses we just need more people who will stay instead of walking away. That will eventually help create a more stable community and in turn make it harder for those looking to do xy or z. If you decide to look at all the negative in any lifestyle that is what you will attract to you.

mistoferin -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 6:51:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phoenix2raven Try this instead, stay and become a support to those who have been hurt. I'm not sure what you meant by this so if I misunderstood it I apologize. I don't think that we should be flying a welcome banner to the "victims" of the world as though we are a safe haven where they will find people who will coddle them and magically heal their wounds. I'm all for being supportive but I think more importantly the message that we should be sending is that one should be standing pretty squarely on their own two feet on solid ground. Too many look at this lifestyle as a "fix all" and a place where they will find someone to lay the responsibility of themselves, their past and their futures onto. Again, if I misunderstood I apologize.

BlackPhx -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 6:51:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: youngsubgeoff Ive been sitting here thinking for a long time... Im seriously thinking about packing it in and just not associating with the lifestyle anymore. Is there some part of this lifestlye that appeals to the insane? Does the BDSM community at large sort of look the other way when these things happen? Im not saying these things dont happen in the vanilla world, but they seem to happen more often and to a more extreme degree in the lifestyle. Again, the questions flood my mind. Do I want to be involved with that? Do I want to condone that? The choice to associate with those who are "Lifestyle" is one that only you can make..but only you know how much a part of your life, this Life Choice is. I have never seen this as a Lifestyle..a lifestyle is something to which I aspire..a Mansion on 60 acres fenced and private, sufficient income to support that mansion, Master and 2 other slaves and the leisure to fly anywhere in the world on a whim.. THAT is a Lifestyle. This is a choice, something that is an integral part of my life, that is required for my mental and physical happiness (Life), but which I Choose to share through interaction with others outside of myself and my Owner. This means hitting the clubs, the munches, the boards from time to time. From time to time I choose NOT to enagage outsiders in conversation and socialization, and that is also a choice, obviously that you have available to you. So the questuon becomes (If your needs are a part of your life and what you eed for fulfillment and happiness) are you making the choice to walk away from the interaction with others? Does some of what we do appeal to the insane? Yep, but some of what your parents and friends do, also appeals to them. things like fine dining, going to movies, religion, politics, wearing clothing, having a home and not a jail cell to call their own. I have met some very generous, empathetic and wonderful people involved with BDSM and some people I wouldn't cross the street to help in regular everyday life. Their everywhere. Get used to it and look around, this microcosim holds no more or less than any other. We just discuss it more openly, but you also have to remember that one persons Cinderella is anothers Cruella DeVille, one persons McSteamy is anothers McNightmare. If you don't want to condone aspects of this life choice then don't. Not everything is for everyone. You don't have to engage in things that are not your cuppa tea. You also have things that you can do, things such as mentoring, organizing munches so people can meet safely, organizing demos, being proactive instead of reactive. Educate don't vegetate. If you need to walk away from the public aspect for a while, know that all of us do from time to time as time and interests change or refocus elsewhere. Just stop and think are you walking away from the public aspect, or trying to walk away from what is integral to your happiness..submission. I suspect you would find even if you wwent completely vanilla, you would find yourself seeking partners who were dominant over you in some way. We are what we are, to thine own self be true are really good words to live by. poenkitten

apiercedkitty -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 7:01:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: youngsubgeoff Im not trying to be offensive, but it seems to me that there is a higher percentage of fucked up people in this lifestyle. Not in my experience... there just seems to be a lot of fucked up people everywhere you look... maybe it's just that it seems higher here because it's a relatively small sampling... just a thought.

Mercnbeth -> RE: seriously considering leaving the lifestyle (4/30/2008 7:09:19 AM)
~ Fast Reply ~ Very good attention grab. Hope you've generated the desired extra looks at your profile. You represent yourself as a furniture store hanging a huge 'Going out of Business - SALE'' sign. Four years later they hang another sign - FINAL SALE~! What other purpose could you have? Validation? From the 'lifestyle' that you hold in such disdain? Your self importance ranks so high that participation in the 'community' is seen as "condoning". Does your belief in that perspective mean that since you are in the 'community' and there is a murder described as "sadistic" your participation in the sadistic community condones it? You don't even disclose what you consider "insane"; just saying that "these things" also happen in the "vanilla" community and people have "killed themselves" over them. Well - enjoy the attention and increased traffic. If all else fails - try a bowling league. I wouldn't recommend golf because if witnessed first hand similar occurrence where golfers are "abused, debased, robbed of everything in they're lives". When I played I often considered murdering myself when I missed a 3 foot putt. It's a brutal world.

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