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RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/2/2008 9:26:28 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		You invite whoever meets the criteria you want to set up, just like when the G7 started. You simply rework the rules to make thema  less subjective criteria.  Then the problem of  countries like Russia falling away from the standard remaining in the group is taken care of without personal bias. If the group does good work and fosters success then countries will want to join.


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RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/2/2008 9:29:46 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

When he said " Take the fight to the terrorist " That should be clear enough for anyone to understand. What do you think it means, if something different ?
Why do you believe "take the fight to the terrorists" means "invade Pakistan"?


It's politician-ese for: If you dont do as we say, we will unilaterally send in our troops to get the job done whether you approve or not. It's the same "either with us or against us" Bush policy the left-wing hates so much. Just a different way of saying it.

That sounds like an invasion to me. And what Obama fails to realize is that Pakistan is an ally country with a unstable government and a radical population. If we invade, or send troops in there, or whatever you want to call it, then that population may rise up and overthrow Mushareff. And that would lead to an even worse situation than we are involved in with Iraq. Pakistan has nuclear weapons, I remind you.


Thanks Dude, saved me answering this myself. Everyone know what politicians mean by using such phrases. Its hardly rocket science to work it out.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/2/2008 9:47:11 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Im wondering if Mcains idea has been clearly thought through. The G8 is more to do with the economy than anything else. The initial idea was to have similar economic policies. Given the fact that Russia holds vast natural resources, and is fast building ties with the EU, would it be in Americas interest if Russia left the G8. After all, it was America who invited them to join in the first place.

If we isolate Russia, they will respond as such. All the talk about them aiming missiles at Europe was just Putin and political grandstanding. No one here took much notice of it. The simple fact is, if we want world trade, it has to be on equal terms for every nation taking part, and not just a select few.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/2/2008 9:51:21 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		See now I'm all for being in a group with Russia that focuses on economic solutions etc, but at the same time I want a group that really does stick to the idea of policies that help democracies and Russia has slipped back away from that ideal.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/2/2008 10:06:19 AM   
cyberdude611


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Status: offline 		But isolation is not the answer either. Ronald Reagan didnt isolate the Soviet Union, he engaged them actively.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/2/2008 10:12:43 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		See now I'm all for being in a group with Russia that focuses on economic solutions etc, but at the same time I want a group that really does stick to the idea of policies that help democracies and Russia has slipped back away from that ideal.

Are you misunderstanding that I want to do both? engadge them in economic group 1 and leave them out of economic group 2 until they meet a more objective criteria for democracy?

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/2/2008 11:18:18 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		 What is China,Russia and Europe form a G-whatever of their own,and kick us out?

That`s just as likely a scenario as Russia getting kicked from G-8

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/2/2008 11:28:25 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

You invite whoever meets the criteria you want to set up, just like when the G7 started. You simply rework the rules to make thema  less subjective criteria.  Then the problem of  countries like Russia falling away from the standard remaining in the group is taken care of without personal bias. If the group does good work and fosters success then countries will want to join.




In that case, I think McCain will end up with a G1.

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(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/2/2008 5:22:09 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

When he said " Take the fight to the terrorist " That should be clear enough for anyone to understand. What do you think it means, if something different ?
Why do you believe "take the fight to the terrorists" means "invade Pakistan"?


It's politician-ese for: If you dont do as we say, we will unilaterally send in our troops to get the job done whether you approve or not. It's the same "either with us or against us" Bush policy the left-wing hates so much. Just a different way of saying it.

That sounds like an invasion to me. And what Obama fails to realize is that Pakistan is an ally country with a unstable government and a radical population. If we invade, or send troops in there, or whatever you want to call it, then that population may rise up and overthrow Mushareff. And that would lead to an even worse situation than we are involved in with Iraq. Pakistan has nuclear weapons, I remind you.


Thanks Dude, saved me answering this myself. Everyone know what politicians mean by using such phrases. Its hardly rocket science to work it out.


"Everybody know (sic)", eh? Everybody knew the Earth was flat, and the center of the universe, and waves moved through the ether, and disease was caused by spirits.

Good job with your tremendous leaps of illogic. Way to fucking go putting the words you want to hear into Obama's mouth. Talk about dishonest partisan bullshit. Keep telling the lie that Obama wants to invade Pakistan.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/2/2008 5:31:58 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		Funny some people think the cold war ended, if your garden wall fell over and your neighbour suddenly said "I like your car" would you consider it a failure of your politics. The cold war didn't end it changed.☭


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(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/2/2008 5:36:36 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

See now I'm all for being in a group with Russia that focuses on economic solutions etc, but at the same time I want a group that really does stick to the idea of policies that help democracies and Russia has slipped back away from that ideal.

Are you misunderstanding that I want to do both? engadge them in economic group 1 and leave them out of economic group 2 until they meet a more objective criteria for democracy?


Oh like the United States is 'helping' democracy in Iraq through military occupation? Or have I misunderstood something here?

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(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/2/2008 6:28:04 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


"Everybody know (sic)", eh? Everybody knew the Earth was flat, and the center of the universe, and waves moved through the ether, and disease was caused by spirits.

Good job with your tremendous leaps of illogic. Way to fucking go putting the words you want to hear into Obama's mouth. Talk about dishonest partisan bullshit. Keep telling the lie that Obama wants to invade Pakistan.


Okay so i missed the s of of knows, no big deal. We cant all be like you and never make a typing error can we.

Now once again, what do you think Obama`s statement means. All you have done is avoid the question by attacking my viewpoint. I dont really care if Obama gets in or not. My comment was about what he said, you seem to want to change it to what anything but.

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 5/2/2008 6:29:36 PM >

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/2/2008 7:22:07 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		stella,  Wow, I state a personal view of what I would like to see and you want to twist it into a partisan attack?????
"I'm all for" should be a clue that I'm making a personal statement of what I would like to see.

What exactly is so bad about wanting this? or have you been so blinded by Bush hatered that you can't see anything beyond it?


Hippiekinkster,  The very telling phrase is "we will unilaterally send in our troops" if you can see any way that unilaterally (without the permission of the pakistan government) sending in US troops could be interpreted as anything other than an invassion please elaborate.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/2/2008 7:23:42 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		Never mind. Found the answer to my question via Google.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 5/2/2008 7:25:21 PM >

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it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/2/2008 7:50:46 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


"Everybody know (sic)", eh? Everybody knew the Earth was flat, and the center of the universe, and waves moved through the ether, and disease was caused by spirits.

Good job with your tremendous leaps of illogic. Way to fucking go putting the words you want to hear into Obama's mouth. Talk about dishonest partisan bullshit. Keep telling the lie that Obama wants to invade Pakistan.


Okay so i missed the s of of knows, no big deal. We cant all be like you and never make a typing error can we.

Now once again, what do you think Obama`s statement means. All you have done is avoid the question by attacking my viewpoint. I dont really care if Obama gets in or not. My comment was about what he said, you seem to want to change it to what anything but.
Here's yet another example of your apparent lack of reading comprehension. I quoted your phrase exactly as written, because that is how one quotes things, and somehow you seem to think I was commenting on your spelling.

I'll ask everybody on this whole thread, and in the whole forum: Do any of you see any comment whatsoever about 53's spelling? If so, will you please quote it for me?

If you can twist something so simple as that around, no wonder you see the words "invade Pakistan" where they don't exist.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/2/2008 7:53:34 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

stella,  Wow, I state a personal view of what I would like to see and you want to twist it into a partisan attack?????
"I'm all for" should be a clue that I'm making a personal statement of what I would like to see.

What exactly is so bad about wanting this? or have you been so blinded by Bush hatered that you can't see anything beyond it?


Hippiekinkster,  The very telling phrase is "we will unilaterally send in our troops" if you can see any way that unilaterally (without the permission of the pakistan government) sending in US troops could be interpreted as anything other than an invassion please elaborate.
Archer, I re-read the WaPost article more than once, and I could not find where Obama said "invade Pakistan" or "we will unilaterally send in our troops." Maybe my vision's failing. Care to help me out?

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/3/2008 12:17:03 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		The direct Obama quote was "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets (sic in the Pakistan mountians) and President Musharraf won't act, we will."

That was reworded by the press and many in the media as unilateral action.
Not a stretch at all considering that Musharraf has said many times that he would not approve of any such action. (kinda makes it unilateral if the leader of the government has denied the US permission and you say "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will.")

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/3/2008 1:26:38 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

The direct Obama quote was "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets (sic in the Pakistan mountians) and President Musharraf won't act, we will."

That was reworded by the press and many in the media as unilateral action.
Not a stretch at all considering that Musharraf has said many times that he would not approve of any such action. (kinda makes it unilateral if the leader of the government has denied the US permission and you say "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will.")
That statement is a long way from "invade Pakistan", don't you think?  

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/3/2008 1:53:14 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		HK show me where i have put words in Obamas mouth ?  i have been posting my view of what his statement, as a whole, meant. All you keep doing is avoiding my simple question. What do you think his words mean ?  or phrased another way, what action do you think he will take ?

To simplify my view for you, i think he is talking about sending in troops, that constitutes an invasion.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: McCain wants to kick Russia out of G-8 - 5/3/2008 1:55:34 AM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yay let's invade Russia too.


They're already testing us, buzzing our carriers with their bombers and such.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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