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ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Deliena. Sorry to say but a tuppence is worthless here. Just like our dollar is there. Whatever you were saying in the second paragraph I agree with.  

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ORIGINAL: Real_
For my part, I've been able to use the word fuck as virtually every possible part of speech within a one-minute span at one point in my life, so I'm not about to come down on someone for a little harsh language.

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ORIGINAL: Smythe


Over the past couple of days I've read several posts from men who have used what I consider harsh language when referring to women in general or women they know. i.e. "he can do whatever he wants to his own bitches" and something with the c word which I don't really like to see outside of Henry Fielding and 18th century novels.

Should women be referred to in this way? Is it OK for submissive women and not Dommes? Why don't women use similar language when referring to men (or maybe they do) ? Are standards different on a BDSM board than they would be in other places?

I felt kind of offended but I am old fashioned about language. What do others think?

Smythe

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ORIGINAL: LotusSong

The women who are stupid enough to allow it, deserve it.

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ORIGINAL: camille65

When someone peppers their talk with words like that it makes me wonder, is their vocabulary really that limited?

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Have they no respect for others?

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Are they immune or ignorant to how it appears?

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Are they seriously lacking in education or the imagination required to find other words?

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I see it too, as laziness which is another trait I dislike.  'Vulgarity is a crutch for a crippled vocabulary'

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ORIGINAL: camille65

Smythe, I detest crude language especially when it is used casually. When someone peppers their talk with words like that it makes me wonder, is their vocabulary really that limited?

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ORIGINAL: Lumus

When I read the following, it poked something in me regarding language, free speech, and its use, so I wanted to offer some contrasting comments.  I like camille; she did bring up some things that felt as though they could use addressing, though, as they speak close to home regarding the spirit of this thread.

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ORIGINAL: camille65

When someone peppers their talk with words like that it makes me wonder, is their vocabulary really that limited?

This is a misnomer.  Ware the assumptive tendency.  I'm not a dull bulb, yet I curse at work like a motherfucker - over the payroll audit I do; over having to decompile, edit, and recompile data-driven executable programs; other fun things.  The main drive behind the cursing is that I'm surrounded by turkeys...and truth be told, I'm not all that worried about offending them. *which is why it's my opinion and stated as such, it actually stops me in my tracks and makes me wonder.

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Have they no respect for others?

True story:  a woman overheard me say 'fuck' at work and proceeded to tell me, "What is your problem, young man; why do you curse like a heathen?  It's ungodly!"  To which I replied, "Ma'am, I find talk of religion at work offensive, because I happen to be a non-believer.  Let's call it even, shall we?"  Sadly, she didn't get it, in fact she tried to argue religion with me.  A supervisor walked up and asked her why she was yelling at me when she was supposed to be at her seat working.  She yelled at him...  Is it any wonder I place emphasis at the translation end, rather than in the hands of the speaker? *it has nothing to do with religion and I have no idea how you translated my questioning respect as something religious. I think that swearing in the workplace IS a sign of disrespect but not because of any religion.

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Are they immune or ignorant to how it appears?

Appearance should not dictate judgment, yet we do it all the time.  Is it less offensive to pick at a person's choice of words or grammar, than to make a comment intended to provoke in a negative fashion?  Intent goes both ways. *I'm not picking at a person. I don't like casual vulgarity. It bores me, it irritates me but I don't usually react on the outside to it. A bit like an accent that grates upon your ears, do you ride it out or speak up and pick at them?

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Are they seriously lacking in education or the imagination required to find other words?

I can think of several people I know off the top of my head who never completed high school, yet still show more manners and respect than university grads.  That has a lot to do with upbringing - so I could split the difference and agree if you meant social education.  Even so, the ghost of intent lingers...  Imagination isn't really a qualifier, either; people who are known creative geniuses may act with an eccentricity that makes them nonconformist and anti-social *ahem*.  Nietzsche and Shakespeare have both used the term 'whore' in a derogatory fashion, even as they use the word to drive home a salient point. *I think this is the bit that actually riled you up because indeed I mean social education which tags right along with respectfully dealing with people and still maintaining your identity.Imagine to me is a qualifier. I am a lover of words and get great satisfaction from using them as well as satisfaction having them used towards me.It is my preference to be around well read and well spoken people.

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I see it too, as laziness which is another trait I dislike.  'Vulgarity is a crutch for a crippled vocabulary'

*I hope you noticed the quote marks around that?Yes I see it as being lazy. Taking the easy way out and not using self control. It takes a bit of effort to work the brain and call up other words.

I have to ask, here - have you never been lazy; and when you are, do you curse like a motherfucker?   Communication is a fluid thing, to be used and taken in more ways than even the communicator intended.  That's a double edge; we are given more ways to consider and understand, even as we potentially lose our ability to appreciate what exactly happened.  To me, the literal definition of 'lazy language' is truncations, abbreviations, and incomplete sentences that might otherwise *We have differing definitions of laziness in the use of language. Abbreviations are not heard when speaking but 'fuck it rained all day' is heard. I am sorry that I sparked something unpleasant with my post, this is only how I see it. This is only how I feel about the topic of language and respect. Some people are unable to speak more than two sentences without swearing and I don't like to hear it. I think most of those words are trite and overused, thats all.  It isn't about free speech, it's about my view of language and respect.

*grins*

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ORIGINAL: OmegaG

I dated a PhD in Medievil English once. He detested the value that we put on the words today, mainly because he knew the evolution of many of the obscenitites that we use in English culture.

Most of the obscenities as we know them now have their roots in the Anglo language, when the Norman's conqured and were the ruling class, the Anglos desired to appear more noble and part of the way they could do that was with language. Words that were not used by the Normans became vulgarities which simply meant common during the initial transition, as we progressed further away from the roots vulgar started to mean obscene and "common or lower class" language was considered profane (which initially had a different meaning too, but I digress).

the words that are objected to are done so solely on social conditioning.

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ORIGINAL: Smythe


Anyway, I still have this outstanding question which is why you don't see women calling men derogatory names nearly as much. Except for the Old Bastard guy who brought it on himself

Smythe