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RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/16/2005 8:46:01 PM   
ProtagonistLily


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quote:

Disgust and cynicism aside for a moment........that same line can, and should be reversed in favor of the dominant side. After all.........isn't the dominant the one who is running the show?? Or is he really only a figurehead in the bdsm society?


This is a joke, correct?

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(in reply to RavenofPK)
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RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/16/2005 8:46:19 PM   
OscarHargraves


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ES you've been a bad girl. Go to my room.

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RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/16/2005 8:51:16 PM   
OscarHargraves


Posts: 693
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I think it behooves each of us, Dom or Sub, Master or Slave to try to bring a little more courtesy and respect into our lives and to do that by showing that respect to others. Whether it's here on the boards or face to face it just seems to make things go better for everyone.

As for the idiots that start out a message with "Get on your knees Bitch!", why even bother to answer? Just hit the delete button and send them reeling off into the ether where they belong.


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RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/16/2005 9:03:42 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenofPK
Disgust and cynicism aside for a moment........that same line can, and should be reversed in favor of the dominant side. After all.........isn't the dominant the one who is running the show?? Or is he really only a figurehead in the bdsm society?


When you find a dominant, maybe you could ask him.

Stupid Courtesy!

(in reply to RavenofPK)
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RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/16/2005 9:14:35 PM   
RavenofPK


Posts: 320
Joined: 6/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn


When you find a dominant, maybe you could ask him.



Post deleted for gross inflamitory content.

A curtesy that is probably wasted on you, caitlyn.

(in reply to caitlyn)
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RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/16/2005 9:17:45 PM   
RavenofPK


Posts: 320
Joined: 6/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

This is a joke, correct?


I never joke.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
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RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/16/2005 9:39:28 PM   
Wolfie648


Posts: 600
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quote:

Post deleted for gross inflamitory content.


Your original post was inflammatory. But I think a lot of people had a good chuckle even tho' you were not kidding.

D (owner of j)

(in reply to RavenofPK)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/17/2005 6:11:39 AM   
target


Posts: 46
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When I first came to this lifestyle I was advised that "protocol" boiled down to manners and respect. It went both ways. Now we have complaints that subs are to pushy. Usually by tops lost in a fantasy that never existed. Whatever your complaint or edict be, it doesn't matter one bit beyond you and someone you are arranging play with. The rest of us can safely ignore anything that smacks of bluster.
To me the question is , where has information gone? I come online to get and share ideas of technique, not temperment. Yet I get sucked into all the same arguments and none of them get me a moments pleasure in the playroom.

(in reply to RavenofPK)
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RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/17/2005 6:19:44 AM   
Oumae


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenofPK


quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

This is a joke, correct?


I never joke.



I'd hate that..... I love to laugh.


I am generally polite to people and find that I get politeness back.

Oumae


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Is cuma le fear na mbrog ca leagann se a chos.
( The man with the boots does not mind where he places his foot)

(in reply to RavenofPK)
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RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/17/2005 7:36:23 AM   
sub4mistressnsir


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Concerning respect... I think it goes both ways!

About the Dom running the show.. well doesn't it take two to tango??

Personally though.. There have been times that I have had permission from my Dom to sandblast some Dom that has been exceptionally rude to me. And then when they go to him to complain he can only say.. well I did give her permission to do so.

(in reply to Oumae)
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RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/17/2005 7:41:59 AM   
night101owl


Posts: 83
Joined: 8/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenofPK
I never joke.



As the exchange has made clear, your understanding of appropriate conduct is different from others'. You seem to expect everyone who identifies as submissive (and perhaps women as well) to behave towards you in a particular way because you identify as dominant, whereas many here will only provide that sort of deference to a dominant with whom they have a particular relaitonship. There's probably many more variations, as the BDSM community involves a pretty diverse bunch. There are probably some dominants who would expect somewhat submissive behavior from *you*, unless and until you've personally earned your own leathers. I don't expect they'd get it, but they'd be able to quote a cultural basis for their expectation.

Considering the diversity within the BDSM community, it's awfully difficult to point to any so-called "code of conduct" which people should be faulted for violating, because there are just too many of them. The over-arching codes, which extend from the vanilla world and involve treating EVERYONE with basic respect, are sometimes disposed of in favor of whatever an individual's favorite power-exchange requires.

So I'm curious as to what specific courtesy the original poster (and those supporting the original post) refers to.

< Message edited by night101owl -- 10/17/2005 7:42:54 AM >

(in reply to RavenofPK)
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RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/17/2005 7:42:03 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4mistressnsir

Concerning respect... I think it goes both ways!

About the Dom running the show.. well doesn't it take two to tango??

Personally though.. There have been times that I have had permission from my Dom to sandblast some Dom that has been exceptionally rude to me. And then when they go to him to complain he can only say.. well I did give her permission to do so.


I have Master's open ended permission to treat assholes like they're assholes.

As for the Dom running the show, I don't believe that is the case until there is an agreement between the Dom and sub. It's that adage: I'm A sub, not your sub.


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The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to sub4mistressnsir)
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RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/17/2005 8:14:42 AM   
krikket


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From: Washington, DC Metro Area
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I don't spend much time in on-line chat rooms anymore so I can't speak for now, but "way back when" (and yeah, i was there too..lol) probably wasn't quite wonderful as you remember it. I can't count the times i was private messaged (even though the "room" had a rule against it) that started out with "on your knees bitch" -- and the number of times i giggled at em, and was then told i was obviously no slave..lol. As John said, there were idots then and idiots now, as well as people who either didn't know any different or just didn't care. Imho, it's not just subs that seem to have developed an attitude of assumed privledge, but a whole lot of people -- male and female, nilla or kink related. Perhaps some of it is the way people were raised; however, as I told my oldest son one day -- at some point in our lives we have to stop blaming our parents/guardians and take responsibility for our own actions.

I don't have a solution to the problem, but at the same time, I don't have to put up with rude people either. I use the delete/ignore button infrequently, but I do use them.

regards
jimini

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/17/2005 8:26:00 AM   
sub4mistressnsir


Posts: 89
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
I have Master's open ended permission to treat assholes like they're assholes.

As for the Dom running the show, I don't believe that is the case until there is an agreement between the Dom and sub. It's that adage: I'm A sub, not your sub.


Exactly my point!! My Sir gives me respect and treats me well, and vice-versa, and if I don't well let's just say my a$$ is grass.. hehe :)
But with another D that Sir has not approved, then respect (to a point) yes, obey no.. If words are said by this D that I find unfair or offensive.. then ya.. I think I have a right to go off, and as I stated have been given permission to do so.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
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RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/17/2005 8:31:05 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4mistressnsir


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
I have Master's open ended permission to treat assholes like they're assholes.

As for the Dom running the show, I don't believe that is the case until there is an agreement between the Dom and sub. It's that adage: I'm A sub, not your sub.


Exactly my point!! My Sir gives me respect and treats me well, and vice-versa, and if I don't well let's just say my a$$ is grass.. hehe :)
But with another D that Sir has not approved, then respect (to a point) yes, obey no.. If words are said by this D that I find unfair or offensive.. then ya.. I think I have a right to go off, and as I stated have been given permission to do so.

For me, giving respect and courtesy has far more to do with my OWN sense of self than someone else's.

So it really depends. It would take a fairly serious and direct bit of asshole behavior that effects me or my kin in order to have me drop my sense of courtesy and manners. And I wouldn't do it "just because they were being an asshole" but because it was the only way to settle the matter, which IMO very few incidences are HELPED by the other person behaving like an asshole like the initial person did.

The vast majority of asshole incidences can be dealt with extremely fine within the confines of manners and courtesy.

(in reply to sub4mistressnsir)
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RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/17/2005 8:33:55 AM   
plantlady64


Posts: 755
Joined: 5/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Where has Courtesy Gone?

When I came to this lifestyle about 20 years ago, there was a spoken and unspoken code of courtesy to A/all. When we were able to go on line the courtesy factor was still there for several years,. Most D/s folks were proud of that.

No as I read journals from primarely subs, I find a growing indication of insult and assumed privledge that did not exist 5 years ago.

any thoughts?

CP

Hello Sir,
The way of the wind is where it's going in my opinion.
Unfortunately the respect of olden days even in the vanilla world has been diminishing over the years. We seem to be such a self focused/ self motivated society I fear the old ways will only be pushed further into the dirt as time goes by.
Just like men held doors for ladies and Boy Scouts helped old ladies cross the streets Sadly those practices are for the most part gone now too. The old subs on average may have indeed had more of a courteous nature. This does not mean we are not out there, it just means it's harder to find your needle in the haystack as there are fewer needles in them to start with now.

Sincerely,
sub suzanne

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/17/2005 9:03:12 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenofPK
A curtesy that is probably wasted on you, caitlyn.


I noticed on the Gorean board you suggested to non-Goreans that they follow the practice "when in Rome, do as the Roman's do", and that if they couldn't follow that simple logic, they should stop posting on the Gorean board.

I happen to agree with you on that, and think you should take your own advice. This is not a Gorean board, and if your words have any meaning, you should stop making sweeping judgments about other people on this board, based on your Gorean philosophy ... or just stop posting here.

I notice several Goreans have no problem doing this ... Leonidas, Iron Bear, etc ... but a few Goreans seem to want their way when it suits them, but don't want to stand behind their own words, when it inconveniences them.

I don't tend to make someone earn basic courtesy from me ... I tend to give it until such time as someone shows they don't deserve it.[/color]

[Edit by ModTen - Please read TOS ]

< Message edited by ModeratorTen -- 10/17/2005 10:21:40 AM >

(in reply to RavenofPK)
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RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/17/2005 10:17:59 AM   
Phoenixandnika


Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Where has Courtesy Gone?

When I came to this lifestyle about 20 years ago, there was a spoken and unspoken code of courtesy to A/all. When we were able to go on line the courtesy factor was still there for several years,. Most D/s folks were proud of that.

No as I read journals from primarely subs, I find a growing indication of insult and assumed privledge that did not exist 5 years ago.

any thoughts?

CP


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

If you treat me with respect, I will treat you with respect. Simple as that.



It's this line right here that always gets me. I read that as "if you kiss my submissive ass and cowtow to my every need, I will eventually allow you to play with me."

Disgust and cynicism aside for a moment........that same line can, and should be reversed in favor of the dominant side. After all.........isn't the dominant the one who is running the show?? Or is he really only a figurehead in the bdsm society?


I have been around awhile, almost 10 years. I like some do not see a difference. There was and always will be those that know and follow social protocals, those who are naturally rude and those who where raised with manners or simply learned them along way. There are no more or no less than 10 years ago in my opinion.

However, what I do see more of are people putting on a title of Master, Mistress, Dominate, or Domme and assuming that title alone earns you the power to control me or anyone else who "claims" to be submissive or slave. I kiss one mans feet without question or hesitation, there are others I respect enough to approach them with the title.They have earned that through their actions and at times their non-actions. They have prooven themselves to be who and what they claim. However, just because you call yourself these things does not mean you are. After all I can call myself anything from a pit bull to a pile of dung doesn't mean that that is what I am.

Even those that I know that are involved within the Gorean lifestyle real time, do not presume that simply because they add to their name that a woman will simply conscent to non conscent or follow blindly. In my opinion that is simply an online fantasy.

As far as the distain or rudeness in journals. That is life, we do not all see it through rose colored classes. Our journals are away of venting good and bad experiences within the lifestyle and more so that occur in this forum. If you don't like what is written why continue to read them? Should we sensor our thoughts and journals to buffer your feelings?

Remember, we are all here by choice. Regardless of the titles we take and taking that title doesn't give you the right to place demands on myself or anyone else for that matter that is not in your collar. I would also remind you that social protocals go both ways and just because you call yourself a Master doesn't mean we will bow before you and kiss your feet.

Blessed Be,
Nika{Phoenix}




< Message edited by Phoenixandnika -- 10/17/2005 10:22:34 AM >


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(in reply to CelticPrince)
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RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/17/2005 10:33:51 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

Our journals are away of venting good and bad experiences within the lifestyle and more so that occur in this forum.?


I enjoy reading profiles, and journals. I don't care how rude people are in their journals. It's nothing more than a reflection of how they approach life, it is entertaining and telling.

(in reply to Phoenixandnika)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Where has Courtesy Gone - 10/17/2005 10:53:49 AM   
Kasia


Posts: 442
Joined: 6/25/2005
From: The Coast of Adria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Where has Courtesy Gone?


2000 years ago in Latin text from Ancient Rome, the same question was asked only concerning young people versus old.

There were always and there will always be people lacking manners in any group or "lifestyle", on the street and on the internet.
I would say its quite rude to identify lack of courtesy as only submissives characteristic when I find so many "dominants" actually thinking that being rude and insolent is equal to being dominant.

Personally I dont give a damn about courtesy and I dont expect anyone to bow in front of me just because he/she is submissive. I only might expect that from my submissive/s one day.
People like EmeraldSlave2 and caitlyn are the salt of the earth and if someone finds sense of humor and intelligence insulting, thats his problem.

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I DO have profile - just lost an S somewhere along the way

Kassia

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 40
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