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RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/7/2008 2:31:05 PM   
LaTigresse


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Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MontrealPhoenix

"If I was you I would work on the english a bit more....just saying... "

Interesting that you would say that since "If i were you is correct.....just saying *wink*
 
Phoenix





Yeah well, if I WERE educated beyond the 10th grade I might know that also. But then, we are discussing what is lacking in the public education system. Not what my parents felt was unimportant.

The reality is that in today's multi-cultural, international, business world, more than one language will become a necessity if a person is to be sucessful. If not necessary then, undeniably an asset.

Granted, if you want to work for a local factory, staring at a machine all day, hoping that your job does not end up outsourced to Mexico.......you will never probably need to know anything other than your local dialect.

I believe in giving kids the best possible start to life. I also believe our current public school system is greatly lacking. Whether it be Iowa's, Arkansas' or Colorado's. It is obvious that most schools are not meeting the, ever growing, needs of our children. Kids graduate without being able to read or write correctly. I've worked with college graduates that cannot write a decent business letter, let alone spell, or have a clue as to whether or not to use "was or were".

I've read study after study about the multiple benefits of people of all ages learning several languages. I've also read multiple studies showing that it is far easier to do so at a very young age.

Given all of those points I firmly believe that making it mandatory in schools would only be a good thing.

Regardless...........I am also quite certain that given the decline of public schools, even here in Iowa, it is not likely to happen.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/7/2008 2:40:20 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Now, that was a less angry seeming post and I can agree with just about everything you have said.  I am all for giving our kids every opportunity.  I would like to see the kids allowed to choose a language to begin studying as a second in the 3rd or 4th grade.  THEN make that language a part of their studies for the remainder of their time in school.  Treat it seriously, the way that they used to treat math and science.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/7/2008 2:56:44 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		My other posts were not angry either, I was in a hurry and quite often type in a "the less words used to get the point across the better" manner.

I also have a very sarcastic sense of humour which does not translate well. Plus, I do my level best to avoid letting this type of communication have any emotional effect on me. Except when I am laughing so hard I cry at some of the stuff I read.....

Never assume anything you read on here is either meant personally, or as an attack. It is only different points of view.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/7/2008 3:04:00 PM   
MontrealPhoenix


Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: MontrealPhoenix

"If I was you I would work on the english a bit more....just saying... "

Interesting that you would say that since "If i were you is correct.....just saying *wink*
 
Phoenix





Yeah well, if I WERE educated beyond the 10th grade I might know that also. But then, we are discussing what is lacking in the public education system. Not what my parents felt was unimportant.

The reality is that in today's multi-cultural, international, business world, more than one language will become a necessity if a person is to be sucessful. If not necessary then, undeniably an asset.

Granted, if you want to work for a local factory, staring at a machine all day, hoping that your job does not end up outsourced to Mexico.......you will never probably need to know anything other than your local dialect.

I believe in giving kids the best possible start to life. I also believe our current public school system is greatly lacking. Whether it be Iowa's, Arkansas' or Colorado's. It is obvious that most schools are not meeting the, ever growing, needs of our children. Kids graduate without being able to read or write correctly. I've worked with college graduates that cannot write a decent business letter, let alone spell, or have a clue as to whether or not to use "was or were".

I've read study after study about the multiple benefits of people of all ages learning several languages. I've also read multiple studies showing that it is far easier to do so at a very young age.

Given all of those points I firmly believe that making it mandatory in schools would only be a good thing.

Regardless...........I am also quite certain that given the decline of public schools, even here in Iowa, it is not likely to happen.

Perhaps before we concern ourselves with children learning a second language care should be taken that they learn the first one properly.  We are turning out University grads who are unable to write and speak English properly.  For example, i'm responsible for all correspondence for 11 doctors - not one of whom know proper English grammar, and yes they were all born and raised here.
 
Many studies show that there is a window of opportunity when children soak up new languages, it ends at 3. After that, it becomes harder and harder to learn a new language.
 
Phoenix

_____________________________

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~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

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(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/7/2008 3:48:39 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

Japanese is the language of karate


Actually, it was developed in Okinawa, by people who spoke the Shuri-Naha version of the Okinawan language... as a result,  many Japanese can't even tell you correctly what the words 'kara te' mean, and that includes people who teach it.  


While the 1st part is true,the rest isn`t.

My Kancho Senei Kancho Eizo Onishi traveled to Okinawa every month for years to earn his rank.He trained under Kanken Toyama (1888-1966) and Juhatsu Kiyoda (1888-1967) in the cities of Shuri and Naha to earn his hachidan (8th-degree black belt).

He established my system in '52', in Japan.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Ok smart guy,who brought the art to Okinawa?No googling allowed.

A correct answer ,get`s you out of doing shoji.(cleaning the dojo after class)


2 origination myths , one a sailor fell overboard from a passing Chinese ship, and the other, an attache from a Chinese delegation... in any case, the imprint of Fukein White Crane is all over the various Okinawa 'te's... hence the name kara (old form for China) and te, hand... mangled into 'empty hand' by the Japanese.

And a Japanese would only have been allowed to learn kihon, no matter how many pretty belts they got.... the palace hand techniques weren't shared with outsiders until well after the 1950s.


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/7/2008 3:56:44 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Colored belts didn't enter Karate until westerners got involved.  A few schools still teach it that way.  White for all students up to a certain level when they attain black.  And black only meant a higher level of learning, not a mythical mastery. 
We in the west added that myth as well. 

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/7/2008 4:46:17 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Mais c'est quoi, ce bordel?



Le chien mange le chat.

_____________________________

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/7/2008 5:32:48 PM   
atursvcMaam


Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Mais c'est quoi, ce bordel?



Le chien mange le chat.


Mais voulez-vous dix aspirins?  Dis donc, Ou est la bibliotheque? and.... did the cat enjoy it as much as the dog did?

< Message edited by atursvcMaam -- 5/7/2008 5:34:20 PM >

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Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/7/2008 7:08:21 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Colored belts didn't enter Karate until westerners got involved.  A few schools still teach it that way.  White for all students up to a certain level when they attain black.  And black only meant a higher level of learning, not a mythical mastery. 
We in the west added that myth as well. 



Well, I said pretty, not colored, but the green and brown belts for some kyu rankings were not western additions, they were added by the Japanese in Judo, then Karate. Since westerners had been 'involved' in the Japanese arts from the time of Teddy Roosevelt, I would guess that there may have been some salesmanship involved in the practice.. or it may have been to keep those Japanese college guys happy....  

quote:


Funakoshi, the founder of Shotokan Karate, was never given a rank by his instructors Master Azato or Master Itosu. He was taught in his instructor's back yard in his everyday clothing. He learned karate kata systematically one after the other without receiving colour belts for his efforts.
It wasn't until Master Funakoshi meet Kano Jigoro, the founder of modern Judo. He adopted the Judo style uniform and coloured belt system for use in karate.
The belt colours instituted by Funakoshi were the white, green, brown, and black. Additional colors have been inserted into this structure to provide inexperienced students with visible results for dedicated training.


http://www.kidskarate.com/Contents%20Page/history_of_belts.htm


More to the point of the OP though, the mutation of style names in Asian arts has always interested me, and that seems to tie into the topic. 
If people from those cultures, let alone outsiders, don't know that Kara Te was 'Chinese hand' (or how, specifically, that relates to the nuts and bolts of the system), or that Taijiquan is not 'Grand Ultimate Fist', or that Baguazhang does not refer to 'The 8 palms'... to the point that the effectiveness of the techniques is watered down to suit the misunderstood names....then communication in any language is a dicey prospect at best.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 5/7/2008 7:16:07 PM >

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/7/2008 7:15:05 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		As it was explained to me by several of my teachers, when westerners became involved, we needed to see progress.  The additional colors were added for us.The oriental culture was such that they did not need the rapid gratification and were far more able to show patience. 

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/7/2008 7:23:10 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Please don't take this personally, but I heard the same thing from many teachers in the 60s and 70s.... until I met some who had been around a while, and they verified that colored belts were regulation in Japan going back for decades. Why they added them is certainly open for speculation.

The competetive spirit of the Japanese college clubs was right up there with anything America had, and is cited as the reason Shotokan reversed the 'No interschool kumite' thing.



Now, here's one just for fun.... given the common wisdom that the kobudo weapons were all converted tools, what was the original purpose of the sai?

And any answer that fails to take into account the shortage of workable metal in that part of the world, gets the


< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 5/7/2008 7:37:20 PM >

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/7/2008 7:31:42 PM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

I learned Afrikaans for family reasons which proved handy when visiting South Africa even though they all speak english.



Hmmmmm...


Hmmm what? What is so unusual about Afrikaans? There are a great many people in the US of Afrikaaner ancestry Dave Matthews, Charlize Theron, Lara Logan, and many others....

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/7/2008 7:40:56 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Please don't take this personally, but I heard the same thing from many teachers in the 60s and 70s.... until I met some who had been around a while, and they verified that colored belts were regulation in Japan going back for decades. Why they added them is certainly open for speculation.


Seeing as neither one of us was actually there, I will have to agree that the facts are in dispute among even the so called experts.  But, you said decades.  When did Americans first become involved in these arts?  I think you mentioned Teddy Roosevelt in an earlier post. 
What I have learned is that what one teacher of martial arts calls fact is often refuted as myth by the next.  I'll let them argue it out.
I did once have a Korean teaching a 2000 year old sword art that was supposed to be native to Korea who was found to be teaching a Japanese style that was easily dicumented as entering their country in 1949.  That taught me to not be upset when someone pointed out a revision to martial arts history as I had been taught.  I will add your history to my own and maybe be a little closer to reality.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/7/2008 7:47:25 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		LOL... like the retired sailor who wandered around until someone asked what that thing was he was carrying, I moved on from style to style until I quit hearing 'You ask too many questions'. 

I noticed that as the explanations for the techniques and tactics became less fanciful, so did the origination myths... 

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/8/2008 3:04:46 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Mais c'est quoi, ce bordel?



Le chien mange le chat.


Mais voulez-vous dix aspirins?  Dis donc, Ou est la bibliotheque? and.... did the cat enjoy it as much as the dog did?


Le grande poisson travaille dans le jardin avec le gros roi.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to atursvcMaam)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/8/2008 3:07:19 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Such a cute accent  !

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/8/2008 3:21:59 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Vous etes Madame tres aimable.

Je suis un canard et je vis dans un igloo.

'Just reminiscing my French Resistance days, Kittin.......it's been a long old time....






_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/8/2008 3:26:09 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I am from ze Gestapo NG. Ve haf bin expectink you. Ve know everysink, even your real name.

So Mister Schuft, you vil come mit uns, ja?

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/8/2008 3:28:47 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I am from ze Gestapo NG.



Margaret? Is that you?

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Monolingual English is a disadvantage - 5/8/2008 3:46:34 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		How do you say 'collaboration' in French?

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Profile   Post #: 80
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