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RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/6/2008 8:37:13 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

That's small potatoes. Why not go after the people that give the illegals jobs?

Oh, right!

It's easier to sow the seeds of xenophobia.

That's EXACTLY what we are doing..plus going into known areas where the drop houses are and rousting them and deporting them.   

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 5/6/2008 8:38:59 PM >

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RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/6/2008 10:03:37 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just wondering DomKen..where you get your information about the majority and their origin?

Butch

Every immigrant who settled new land was illegal unless someone can show some sort of agrement between the first nations and those invaders. I've done the research and know there aren't any such treaties. That settles the situation for most every immigrant prior to about 1790 and for plenty after that time.

Next you take all the ones who came here without legal approval to enter before leaving their nation of origin. This wasn't done much in the 19th and early 20th century even though it was required.

Then you take all the ones who circumvented the nation of origin quotas. And then the ones that lied during their entrance interview.

All told unless all branches of your family are recent immigrants then it is extraordinarily unlikely that all those immigrant ancestors entered legally. And based on the various antimmigrants bigots out there clamoring for a change to the way children of illegal immigrants become citizens they wouldn't be citizens. I am positive I wouldn't be.


DomKen, I don't know of anyone who's "anti-immigrant."
But almost all people are "anti-illegal alien."
And as for the children of illegal aliens, Ireland about 3 years ago did away with automatic citizenship by birth, the Irish People voted on it and by a margin of 80% to 20% against. Both parents must be in Ireland *legally* to gain citizenship for any offspring.
And Ireland is a very liberal country!
We need to plug that loophole too.
The 14th Amendment was written in 1868 to give "full citizenship" to "Freed Slaves", not to facilitate illegal aliens who seak into the country.
I don't understand how people think that the purpose of that amendment was to give U.S. Citizenship to people who aren't supposed to be here.
A congresswoman from Michigan I believe has a Bill that would correct the language in it so that it is clear that that is not the intent of it.
It can be done without a constitutional amendment.
And if it were to require an amendment then, "let's get her done!"
People need to realise that sneaking into the U.S., or any other country for that matter, is no longer an option.
The state that I live in (South Carolina) is comming out with a whole bunch of new laws against illegals, tough laws with real teeth in them with state prison sentances for people who hire illegals, hotlines to report people hiring illegals, no type of any public benefits for illegals and a whole list of other things.
People are tired of being drained financially by illegals and tradesmen are looking at plunging wages especially carpenters and construction workers.
And I think they said something about no longer issuing birth certificates to illegals.
Being of Irish descent I don't want a million Irish trying to sneak into our country either.
Our laws are only good if we enforce them!

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RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/6/2008 10:12:51 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I go by green cards and birth certificates-or official naturalization documents. I won't give money to people I find suspect-who cannot provide them. If everyone else did the same-these illegals would be running back over the border so fast it would not even be funny.

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RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/6/2008 10:17:48 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

The state that I live in (South Carolina) is comming out with a whole bunch of new laws against illegals, tough laws with real teeth in them with state prison sentances for people who hire illegals, hotlines to report people hiring illegals, no type of any public benefits for illegals and a whole list of other things.
People are tired of being drained financially by illegals and tradesmen are looking at plunging wages especially carpenters and construction workers.


A lot of what happens with construction work is that one guy who subcontracts a job from a builder is legal,and then hires an illegal crew to work for him. If laws were made that documents had to be checked by the one paying for the work-of every crew member, that would stop too.

I welcome immigrants-I don't welcome criminals.

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RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/6/2008 10:31:29 PM   
azropedntied


Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline 		Look at the Arizona republic news paper web site or any local AZ news channel .A good example is the ATF bust of a gun store owner who was involved in shipping as salt weapons across the border into mexico .This story broke today .The gun store  was less than 5 miles  away from me . No need to quote the details take a read for yourselves  .

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/6/2008 10:35:27 PM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I have INS and The Immigrant Police Division on SPEED DIAL.


Do you have a time machine too? INS was disbanded with the reorganization to Homeland Security. It has been ICE (Immigration & Customs Enforcement) for years.

Personally, I love Mexicans. My life would be so much less emjoyable without them. Mercedes cleans my house Monday, Wends, and Friday. Raoul cleans up after my dog on Fridays, Diego mows my lawn twice a week. If I want to go fishing on the weekend Pepe  goes shopping, stocks my boat with food, fuel, beer, booze and bait, and makes sure everything is ready so all I need to do is cast off the lines... Let me tell ya painting the house is a joy when all you need to do is sit in a chair drinking beer and handing over a Benjamin at the end of the day... For christs sake even the local Taquiera - where can ya get a delicious hot lunch for $3.50???? Mexicans are great hard working people eager to take on any job they can get... the Katrina refugees can learn from them. 

< Message edited by DomAviator -- 5/6/2008 10:40:55 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/6/2008 10:58:50 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Name may have changed Number is the same.

For fucks sake people.... Did you know what I meant? Or does my point get Null-n-voided cause I use the wrong Acronym?

Illegal Immigrants are not paying taxes and even when they do have taxes taken out the taxes themselves are illegal gotten gain even for our goverment and so the money must be Frozen and so them paying taxes actually costs you MORE than if they paid nothing.

I am NOT AGAINST MEXICANS, I am not against Immigrants. I am against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and if you researched what it is going to do to american if it isn't fixed you would be too. But the Bleeding Hearts of America think everyone should get to have the american Dream.

Take a few weeks and take an Economics course and by week three you will see why this is a BAD thing if we don't fix this.

Again this is only my opinion. No one has to agree with me, however the FACTS are out there LOOK THEM UP.

America is a Great place for a REASON..... we never let anyone JUST TAKE IT. They had to EARN it.

Steel

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/6/2008 11:19:43 PM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

But the Bleeding Hearts of America think everyone should get to have the american Dream.

Take a few weeks and take an Economics course and by week three you will see why this is a BAD thing if we don't fix this.



OK first of all Im not a bleeding heart, I am politically slightly to the right of Ghenghis Khan. My welfare reform plan is work or starve to death. HOWEVER, these illegal aliens DO WORK. They work damn hard at a fair price.

I am too intelligent to pay some freaking union yahoo $45 an hour to fling paint. I can go to the overpass where the day workers are every morning and get a hard working mexican for $100 a day and by god he painted my entire house (5,200 sq feet) for $100! Likewise, I had the ceramic tile laid in my foyer, sunroom, and master bath for $100. A nice crisp benjamin buys a lot of Mexican craftsmanship and Im happy to give it to them.  

As for an economics class... I had a few when I got my MBA and my MEng. :D The dreaded illegal mexicans are not a drain on our economy - quite the contrary they help it. By paying $100 to have my house painted instead of $5,000 that leaves me with $4,900 in additional disposable income I can drop in bars, resteraunts, strippers panties, the scuba shop, the local airport and various other places. The drain on the system is the career parasites - such as the scumbags from hurricane Katrina who constitute 76% of the harris county jail population and who are STILL having their rent paid by fema 2-1/2 years later! They dont want the jobs the mexicans get cause they arent interested in serving me a torta for $3.50 or painting my house for $100 or mowing my lawn for $25 or cleaning up my dog shit for $5 they just want a hand out! But they are "Americans" God Bless them...

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/7/2008 4:13:20 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
For fucks sake people....


Yeah, OK...whatever...

This is one of those issues of distraction and I hope y'all realize that very well. I know you want to get upset about this issue and that closely related one about single moms on welfare as well as other such issues.

It's a drop in the bucket compared to stuff like the economy, the war, universal healthcare, campaign finance reform, finance scandals, energy policies, corporate welfare, and etc. The political parties love it when they can flim-flam you with shit like this instead of meaningful issues. They're like pickpockets that shout "Look over there - an illegal immigrant!" and then reach into your pockets and help themselves.

And you are fooled time and again - don't you see that?



And yes, I know the bogeyman/terrorists are going to get you because the borders are unsecured. You'd better look under your beds and check the closets every night - you know they're in there. They're going to get you. God knows they won't be using the Canadian border which is tight as a drum.

OMFG!!!!!!!!1111111



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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/7/2008 7:56:48 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		In actuallity, the illegals drain 26 billion from our economy in social programs every year according to recent studies.  They cannoy be denied medical benefits and other programs even thoughthey came here in violation of the law.  Since recent numbers say that they put about 10 billion into the overall economy and drain 26 from government funds it is actually an even worse number.  That is where my tax money and your tax money goes.  I know that I can't affor it.  If you can, please take that debt off my back.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/7/2008 8:24:05 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Why doesn't it bother you more that Wal-mart pays its employees so little that they are forced to use the same social services that you are complaining the illegal immigrants use?

This is the price of cheap labor republicanism, the race to the bottom.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/7/2008 8:28:55 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		I never said that it didn't.  You ASSUMED that it doesn't.  I despise Walmart for a number of reasons but that is not what this topic has been about.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/7/2008 8:33:09 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		You do realize that Wal-mart has been caught employing illegals, yes? It's not off-topic...nor is the fact that it makes no difference who gets the shitty pay - legal, illegal - they will be using those social services and costing you money unless our economic policy changes.

You are focused on one symptom of a much larger issue.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/7/2008 9:00:55 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline 		This issue never ceases to baffle me. It is really quite simple folks. We are a sovereign nation. We have a right to give people a quick look over before we let them in. I have no problem with worker visas so we can have our cabbage picked but we have every right to keep the criminals out (as I’ve said before, we have enough domestically produced assholes of our own, we don’t need to import them). This problem is simple (which is not the same as easy) to solve. First – seal up the border. Put in the fence, put in the motion detectors, and put in the professional guard force. Will this stop all illegal immigration? Of course not. But we could reduce it to a trickle compared to what it is now.

The next problem is – what do we do about all the illegal aliens that are already here? Simple again. Amnesty. I can here the howls already but the fact is, they are already here and we have neither the time nor the resources to round them all up and deport them (not to mention what horrible PR that would be). Those with criminal records still get the boot but those who have not committed any serious crimes (other than being here illegally) get put on the track to legal status and eventually citizenship if they wish.

One last thing – the multitude of huge asses in sweat pants and spandex is reason enough to hate Walmart.

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 5/7/2008 9:03:44 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/7/2008 9:09:06 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

You do realize that Wal-mart has been caught employing illegals, yes? It's not off-topic...nor is the fact that it makes no difference who gets the shitty pay - legal, illegal - they will be using those social services and costing you money unless our economic policy changes.

You are focused on one symptom of a much larger issue.

Again, I am discussing the topic of the thread.  Walmart was not brought up until you accused me of being ignorant of their evils.  I know well the things that Walmart is guilty of doing.  Add to your list that they encourage American companies to take jobs out of this country so that they can get their items cheaper and sell them to the same people whose jobs were just taken from them.  Add to your list that they have destroyed local economies by undercutting local businesses to the point that they had to close their doors and then they have raised their proces to the same levels that the other businesses had to begin with.  I am not focusing on any one part of the problem.  You are trying to show that I am uninformed because I stayed with the topic of the thread.  You want a Walmart debate, start a Walmart thread.

I am DISCUSSING one symptom of the disease not focusing on it.

< Message edited by Irishknight -- 5/7/2008 9:10:22 AM >

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RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/7/2008 10:08:14 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		Maybe part of the problem is who can get legal alien status...  I know in Canada they hand pick who they want permenantly in the country and it is not just based on if they have criminal records...they pick immigrants based on certain skills and levels of education and health status and refuse  those that don't meet the criteria,  so the really poor and uneducated are not the ones going to be given  legal status exceptions  is on   a temporary basis to work in the fields, they pick those with educations who are doctors,programmers,  have skills trades, a good education etc ...  the less educated/skilled  will be allowed in only if they have family members or a church to sponsor them or  are immediate family  of the one who has the skills/education to be accepted  for legal status  such as spouse or children .   Most of the ones who are crossing in illegally such as the mexicans crossing the US border will not meet the criteria  to recieve legal entry. because they are too poor to get an education or skills.  So for many of them the only way to get in is to cross illegally and hope to be naturalized later on.  

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RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/7/2008 10:22:57 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		You know, bank robbers are only poor people who are trying to make their lives better, too.  An absurd statement?  You bet.  Justifying breaking the law doesn't make it right.  Instead of enabling them when they break the law, why not help them come over legally?  Because that would be too much involvement for those who prefer to turn their heads and call the rest of us bigots. 
If you think our immigration laws are harsh, look at Mexico's laws.  It is harder to legally immigrate to Mexico than to the United States.  If you think the laws in our country are unjust, try to get them changed by real action.  We are fortunate in this country to still be able to do that.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/7/2008 10:35:49 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Why, whenever there is a discussion of people entering the US illegally, does SOMEONE have to go back 200 years and say "well you came here illegally too?"  Does that make sense to ANYONE?  We did lots of things 200 years ago that we aren't going to do today.  FFS.

Cali


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RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/7/2008 10:44:05 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Why, whenever there is a discussion of people entering the US illegally, does SOMEONE have to go back 200 years and say "well you came here illegally too?"  Does that make sense to ANYONE?  We did lots of things 200 years ago that we aren't going to do today.  FFS.

Cali


It's called pointing out the hypocrisy of those bigots whining about illegals today. If someone isn't a citizen by their own standards then they need to pack up and clear the fuck out rather than b'ing and m'ing about the brown people doing precisely the same thing their ancestors did.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Arizona Rest Area - 5/7/2008 11:24:13 AM   
Poetryinpain


Posts: 341
Joined: 3/20/2008
Status: offline 		Calling one a hypocrite because their ancestors did something at a different time under different social and economic conditions is not helpful to creating understanding.

Instead of trying to control immigration, shouldn't we be requiring those nations where the immigrants come from to do something about EMIGRATION? All these people coming to the US are coming here because we offer something their countries don't have. If their countries had it, the people wouldn't be coming here. But I think their native countries are happy to be rid of them - fewer people to worry about supporting.

The company I worked for lost a very good employee because he confessed to the HR person that he had entered the country illegally. I know that those day workers are hard workers. I know many immigrants (legal and illegal) are willing to take jobs that many who were born here feel are beneath them, and that they will take jobs that pay very little. I also know they live two or three families in a two-bedroom apartment in order to live on the little money they make. That is no reason to condone their side-stepping of the law in coming to this country.

BTW - those called 'native Americans' are also descendents of immigrants.

pip, my ancestors had all their paperwork - I even have my grandparents' tickets - steerage class

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