RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message


Hanable -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 10:45:42 AM)

i agree with Lordandmasters statement. thats whats wrong with the country mainly.. no one knows what the issues are becuz all the candadates r so busy trying to dig up bad stuff on there opponet(s) or raise money to keep there campaign alive that they dont have time to talk about the issues.

also the lobiests.. or who ever they are.. the ppl who the candadaties make happy to get money... thoes ppl.. are completly evil. they make the canadate go with them for money.. not cuz its a worthy cause or cuz there right. but because they have the money the campaigns need to stay aflote.

idk what a voter owned election really means.. could some one explain this to me please?

H >:)




NoVacancy -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 11:29:10 AM)

Hannable:  You know on your tax return where you can put the little check mark to indicate that you want $10 of your taxes to go towards publically funded elections? (and that it will neither increase nor decrease your refund).  THIS is the money that is used to fund voter owned elections. 

What are Voter Owned Elections?

The concept of Voter Owned Elections (or 'Public Campaign Financing') is simple
: the public helps fund the campaigns of candidates who can demonstrate a wide base of public support by collecting a large number of small donations. In exchange, candidates agree to limit their private fundraising. Voter Owned Elections (also known as 'public financing of campaigns') is a good government reform that helps ensure that candidates are accountable to the public, rather than private interests, and creates a situation where all serious candidates have enough resources to get their message into the hands of voters.


  • Gives voters the opportunity to make a decision based on the merits of the candidates rather than their fundraising abilities
  • Ensures candidates are accountable to the public rather than private interests
  • Ensures minority groups have a fair opportunity to participate in elective and governmental processes
  • Significantly reduces the amount of time that candidates need to spend raising money -- giving them more time to focus on serving the public
  • Saves money by reducing inappropriate giveaways to campaign contributors




NoVacancy -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 11:35:52 AM)

I guess I would need to clarify that that is a U.S. federal tax return (and some state tax returns).  (re the whole check mark comment)




Lucylastic -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 12:15:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: suhlut


Move to Canada?

We dont want him!!!!




NoVacancy -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 12:26:22 PM)

Kirren,

I understand your frustration and not knowing what to believe and what you should be really upset about, and what is just spin and hype, and what is lies versus broken promises, what is pandering and who you should believe and who will lead you down the wrong path.  Kind of that same swirling, nauseated feeling I get when I go look for a new car.

Anyway.......as much as I know, I can tell you now, it is only a fraction of what I don't know.  At some point you have to take a leap of faith and find an issue that is of great importance to you.  If you can't find the candidate that matches your values on that issue, then do what you can to get involved and bring out awareness of your issue.  Writing letters to your editor is the easiest, grassroots thing you can do to get involved.  I know a lot of people here will scoff at that and say it is wasted ink, but I believe that what it does for YOU far outweighs any negative to doing so.  Once you get involved in the process yourself, you will begin to understand better how the process works and you'll find that you are more confident weeding through the bullshit and determining what is real and what is not real.  I have learned one valuable lesson in my journey however....it is great to be passionate about your issue, but if you run across someone who is totally intolerant to to the right of someone to hold an opposing view, then you are probably dealing with a someone who is not very open-minded, and I wouldn't trust them as a source of good or reliable information. 




Kirren -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 12:31:37 PM)

I wouldnt mind doing a letter thing...but honestly, I dont have the talent for words that I once did, and I would be on a rant like I was just now.

But thankies for the idea....I would imagine Ill just sit back and watch like I have in the past and pray for one of the three most prominent idiots to say something mind bending and amazing and will then use that to base My choice on.

I just think its sad that nothing is really changing.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 12:45:34 PM)


quote:

We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.

Thomas Jefferson
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)

quote:

Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people, who have a right…and a desire to know; but besides this, they have a right, an indisputable, unalienable, indefeasible, divine right to that most dreaded and envied kind of knowledge, I mean of the characters and conduct of their rulers.

John Adams (1735–1826)


quote:


...The Declaration of Independence of July 1776 emphasized politics as the cause of the Revolution, especially disputes about representation, taxes, and the effects of British imperial policy in America. The Declaration referred to religion only generally--to "nature's God" and "Divine Providence"--and never mentioned Christ or cited Biblical texts to support independence...
http://www.nps.gov/revwar/about_the_revolution/revolutionary_stories.html


which basically leads this slave to conclude what her brother has been preaching for years...Vote Republican, hasten the Revolution.

[:)]




servantforuse -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 12:53:22 PM)

Most voters mistakenly think that whoever is President ( either party ) will change their lives for the better. Maybe they will make more money, or even lower the price of gas and food. In reality the President will not change anyones life for the better. That isn't his job. It is up to the individual to improve his or her life..




UncleNasty -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 12:53:33 PM)

An understanding of what is happening can be both very simple and very complicated.

In simplest terms: He who owns the gold makes the rules.

We all want our lives to be about other things than money (family, friends, school, play, dungeons) but truthfully money is the primary. If you doubt that try not having enough and see what the focus of your life becomes.

Bear in mind I use the term money quite loosely. There isn't really any money, and hasn't been for a long time. A read of a Federal Reserve publication entitled "Moder Money Mechanics" is quite illuminating. What we have, and have had, is fiat currency. In short fiat currency is worthless paper the governments force the citizens to use as the medium of exchange. Every society that has converted from an honest system of money (for thousands of years almost every society selected gold and silver as their honest money, including ours - read the Mint and Coinage Act of 1792) to a fiat based currency has fallen. There have been no exceptions.

Gaining an understanding of our system of non-money, who controls it, how they control it, who is controlled through control of it, who benefits, etc., is not an easy task. The internet is a great tool in that regard, but it still is a big process, and time consuming. If there are any interested in some resources I'll gladly provide some. Simply contact me privately.

The only candidate I know of that was willing to speak publicly about this, Ron Paul, was essentially shunned by the media. More of a libertarian than a republican. Its possible he'll run as an independent, but I don't how probable that is. I hope he does.

To close I have a suggestion/request/entreaty: Please read and understand the US Constitution. It is our seminal document and in it is contained the information and processes we need to return a "servant government." In our current circumstances we have a "servant citizen" and are much, much neare to a police state than we are a free society.

Uncle Nasty

PS I can't resist this.

In 1913, the year the Federal Reserve was granted its charter, I could take myself and 2 others for dinner, desert and drinks at the finest restaurant in town and pay for such with one 1oz. gold coin -any nationality you prefer. Gold was around $25/oz. at that time. Today I could do the same thing. Dinner, desert and drinks for 3, paid for with one 1 oz. gold coin. currently gold is around $900/oz.

So, which is worth more, or less, or the same?

Gold = same
Fiat currency = less

Gold has maintained its value, and its ability to purchase the same goods and services.
Our fiat currency has lost 96% of its purchasing power since 1913.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 1:39:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real_Trouble

Out of curiosity, do you also hate anyone named Joseph?

I'm asking in the interests of logical consistency, you see.



No and I dont hate Obama because hes black either so dont even try to play the race card. If the dems wanted a black candidate they could have gotten a better one. One who isnt a leftist radical, raised and schooled in Indonesian in muslim schools, who is outwardly hostile to America and affiliated with a wacko minister with ties to Farrakahan and the Nation of Islam. Personally, I hope that McCain picks Condelleza Rice or Colin Powell as a running mate....
I congratulate you for being able to rip yourself away from thumbing through "Soldier of Fortune" with NASCAR on in the background long enough to write this insane racist drivel which has been debunked so many times even Karl Rove and Rush Limpballs the junkie have given up repeating it. A stunning achievement!

Everybody applaud now!




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 1:47:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirren

Well its kind of hard to know whats going on when you have like 6 million opinions coming at you, when none of it makes sense, and you get lost in the wing section of lefts and rights and who will abort and who wont.

The fact is, none of them seem to have a clear stance on anything that will be of any meaningful impact to turn the economic digression of this country around. They have massive excuses as to why the oil we use costs as much as it does, but no solutions. They can tell you that they support same sex marriages tho. Not that Im against that, but what good does it do? Not any...you know why? cos that gay couple living down the street will get married and some drunk fucktard will come along and burn down their house, because of his own ignorant fear of his own latent homosexual tendancies.

They want to tell you that theyll give you 650$ for one month of heating when its asshole deep snow, but they wont tell you that with that bill comes granny over cross town having to live off of bacon bits and cat food, because they cant seem  to balance a check book.

Thats what Im seeing...lies, and more lies...and when I come here to ask some one to help Me find the truth I get told that its MY fault that the country is screwed up because I cant believe word one in the media...and dont understand half of what the morons are talking about.

I came here to get it straight from some of the people I have come to know and trust and respect over time.

The public education system in rural communities like the one in which I got My education is about 10 years and 15 million dollars behind the rest of the freaking country. But thats okay in any presidents eyes, because some one has to serve Bill Clinton those Big Macs..and some one has to grow the food he eats at home dont they? And after all...a farmer really doesnt need to read...just drive and work a hoe....So doesnt it stand to reason that the general public in every day America would NOT understand the issues....or non issues?

So if some one like Me has to come onto a public board to get the answers that they need, then maybe instead of saying oh hey...its that persons fault because they dont know where to look for the truth...then MAYBE...it would be a good idea to POINT them in the RIGHT direction? Offer something useful instead of something just as damning as 6$ a gallon gas and 3$ a loaf bread.

The ONLY place that people like Me, plain jane every day average people, have is the media...so looking at that...what would you believe? what would you think? Propganda? Or facts? and really...what are the facts? The issues are the same...little guy is taking it in the ass so big guy can have a nicer car...little guy starves begging for big guys scraps...We all sit around and talk and discuss and bitch...they tell us to vote...then -gasp- we find out weve been lied to!  and we want to act enraged when nothing changes...but yet we sit back on our spoiled fat asses and we do NOTHING about it....Im sick of not doing anything. Im sick of wondering how Im going to feed My kids. Im sick of wondering how Im going to pay My bills because I live in an area that is left behind. Im sick of watching My 86 year old granmother decide if she wants to eat or if she wants to die of a heart attack due to high blood pressure so she takes her pills in half so she can make the 150$ a month prescription last longer. Im sick of falling behind because I cant acidemically compete with some one two states away.

This country needs a boot in the ass...and it needs it fast....damn it. Were so worried about what the guy across the street is doing we dont see that the people in our own house are dying of starvation. Iran and Iraq have been fighting since biblical times...do you think they plan to stop now? Because we said so? Dillusional to think so, wouldnt you say?  Who gives a shit about the rest of the world...we can sustain on our own. We have the land, and the resources to do it...we have the oil...we have the refineries...we have the land for crops...we have the ability to do it and do it just as well as the assholes over seas...but instead...we want to send jobs over there so some poor person in back scratch congo can feed his tribe...well...what about OUR tibe? The American tribe? The kids that starve? The people that have illness that they cant get treated because they cant get insurance? What about those guys? Where are they in all the NON issue issues?

Show Me ONE of the candidates in the list that gives a flying rats ass about ANY of that...and Ill show you some one who is either a) going to do nothing or b) full of shit as a christmas turkey.

[sm=soapbox.gif]

Okay...now I can step down...because I realize I am in fact beating a dead horse...none of this is going to change...and venting in such a manner is not going to make things any better.

If Ive offended anyone...I am sorry....But Im pretty damned mad at the lack of action and the over use of hot air...could all the shit talking politicians do be the reason that we have global warming? Ooo...I know...lets motion the house to spend 20 trillion on a research foundation to find out!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

A good example of what's wrong with politics in America.  No one seems to know what the issues are.  Nor do they seem to know what they have to do to find out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirren

I've said before,  I am not very sure when it comes to political platforms. Ive been reading, and none of it makes any kind of sense, so I turn to you guys...those of you who know what the hell all this stuff means, incumbant, what evers for where ever....Because I am so completely lost in the shit storm of OMG its a woman or a black man, and what will we do, and whos gonna get it, and what do they stand for, while Obama turns is back on the American flag, and Hillary is for abortion and gas tax holidays...

I cant make heads or tails of it...so can some one, with OUT the sarcasm thank you, PLEASE break it down for Me in simplest terms, as to what each one stands for....and how likely they are to ACTUALLY do it, based on past histories in politics....


Well, why don't you tune out the 6 million opinions, and go to each candidate's web site, and read what THEY say? Instead of l;istening to goofy-assed drivel like "Obama is a Muslim" which is a bald-faced lie, and which makes anyone who repeats it a...what? You know the answer.




caro44 -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 1:57:15 PM)

Spokern Like a True Republican.  And for the record Mrs.Clinton has never been disbared from the pratice of Law. If you think this to be true show us the doucmentation of that fact.  I alson think you are being a little hard on Mr Obama. But that is only my opinion, and we all know what opions are like.  Live well and be safe




NoVacancy -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 4:52:30 PM)

UncleNasty,
That was very interesting  and informative about fiat currency and it's value compared to gold.  This was something I had never heard before. 

Another thing that I think gets a bum rap is progressive taxation.  Most conservatives are very anti-tax....period.  But taxes are very important and Kirren this is something very important that you can learn also.  YES there is rampant waste in the government and we should take steps to define and stop the waste, but cutting taxes, especially for those at the very top of the wealth pool, is fundamentally unfair to the rest of us down the line, who then have to pick up the burden of their tax cuts.  Most republicans will disagree vehemently with me about this.

Progressive taxation - taxing the wealthy at higher rates than the poor - is a moral issue.  Like many moral issues, it sparks heated debate.  The debate is borne of conflicting worldviews, values and understandings of values.  But when we undertand the values and ideas that underlie our position on issues, these arguments appeal to the great majority of Americans whose worldviews borrow in various ways from both progressive and conservative values.

America's government has at least two fundamental functions, protection and empowerment.  Protection includes the police, firefighters, emergency services, public health, the military, and so on.  Empowerment includes the infrastructure needed for business and everyday life.  Roads, communications systems, water supplies, public education, the banking system for loans and economic stability, the SEC for the stock market, the courts for enforcing contracts, air traffic control, support for basic science, our national parks and public buildings, and more.  We are usually aware of protection.  But the empowerment infrastructure, provided by taxes, is usually taken for granted, hidden, or ignored.  Yet it is absolutely crucial, a fundmental truth about America and why America provides opportunity.
 
Taxes are part of our common wealth, what we all share.  Protection and empowerment serve the common good.  Because of our common wealth, we are all protected and America's empowering infrastructure is available to all. THAT is a fundamental American value.  The common wealth should serve the common good.  It benefits everyone.

Citizens are financially responsible to maintain this common wealth.  If we shirked this responsibility, we could not maintain our roads, fund our schools, protects ourselves from military threats, enforce our laws, and so on.  Equally important, we could not create prosperity for ourselves, because we would have no protection of our intellectual property, no oversight of our markets, no means to enforce our contracts, no way to educate most of our children.

Several main progressive values support the idea of progressive taxation.  One is the belief the the common wealthy should be used for the common good.  Another is respnsibility, the responsibility that citizens have to pay for the benefits we receive from our common wealth.  And still another is fairness.  These values intertwine on the question of progressive taxation.

Few people dispute this responsibility at some level.  Disagreement generally arises ove the amount and the relative apportionment of the responsibility.  Differing concepts of fairness drive this debate.  While many progressives say it is only fair that those who earn more, pay a highter percentage of their earnings as taxes compared to those who have difficulty making ends meet.  Conservatives respond by asserting that it is unfair to "punish" the financially successful by making them pay more. 

An important point of lost in this debate is an appreciation that the common wealth, which our taxes create and sustain, empowers the wealthy in myriad ways to create their wealth.  We call this compound empowerment - the compounded use of the common wealth by corporations, their investors, and other wealthy indviduals.  Consider Bill Gates.  He started Microsoft as a college dropout and has become the world's richest person.  Though he has undoubtedly benefited from his unusual intelligence and busineness acumen, he could not have created or sustained his personal wealth without the common wealth.  The legal system protected Microsoft's intellectual property and contracts.  The tax-supported financial infrastructure enabled him to access capital markets and trade his stock in a market in which invetors have confidence.  He built his company with many employees educated in public schools and universities.  Tax-funded research helped develop computer science and the internet.  Trade laws negotiated and enforced by the government protect his ability to sell his products abroad.  These are but a few of the ways in which Mr. Gate's accumulationg of wealth was empowered by the common wealth and by taxation.  As Warren Buffet pointed out, he likely couldn't have achieved his financial success had he been born in Bangladesh instead of the United Stats, because Bangladesh had no banking system and no stock market.

Ordinary people just drive on the highway; corporations send fleets of trucks.  Ordinary people may get a bank load for their mortgages; corporations borrow money to buy whole companies.  Ordinary people rarely use the courts; most of the courts are used for corporate law and contract disputes.  Corporations and their investors- those who have accumulated enough money beyond basic needs so they can invest - make much more use, compound use, of the empowering infrastructure provided by everybody's tax money.    The wealthy had made greater use of the common good - they have been empowered by it in creating their wealth - and thus have a greater moral obligation to sustain it.  They are merely paying their debt to society in arrears and investing in future empowerment. 

This is the fundamental truth that motivates progressive taxation.  It is a truth that undercuts conservative arguments about taxation.  Taxes provide and maintain the protecting and empowering infrastructure that makes our income possible.  Our tax forms hide this truth.  They do not indicate the extend to which taxes have created and sustained the common wealth so that you could what you have.  They make it look like the empowering infrastructure was just put there by magic and that the government is taking money out of your pocket.  The most likely truth is that, through the common wealth, America put more money in your pocket than it took out - by far. 

But this situation is threatened by conservative tax policy.  Through unfair cuts in taxes paid by the wealthy, through payment for the invasion and occupation of Iraq, and through borrowing abroad to pay for the tax cuts and Iraq, the common wealth is being drained and the infrastructure allowed to fall apart.  We need to return to a fair tax policy that recognizes financial responsibility incurred by the compound use of America's empowering infrastructure. 

sorry..I got carried away. 




dcnovice -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 5:06:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

Ok want a break down - here it is:

Barrack HUSSEIN Obama is a pathological liar who flip flops in the interest of expedience. He was born of a radical mother from Kansas who mated with a black man from Kenya. He was then raised as a muslim in Indonesia until he was 14. (You know, Indonesia - where they have the Bali bombing and Al Queda is rampant.) He denies being a muslim however and has a racist preacher who thinks Louis Farrakhan - leader of the nation of Islam will free the blacks from the white devils in this God Damn KKK or A. You know he is most famous for saying God Bless America! No God DAMN America! He has a wife who announced that "for the first time she was proud to be an american". Obama was never in the military unless you count al queda camps in Indonesia.

Hillary Clinton is a crooked disbarred lawyer whos political qualifications consists of being married to one of the worst presidents we ever had. She too is a pathological liar and will tell you whatever you need to hear. Case in point , she is one of the most antigun people in america yet she was doing boiler makers and talking deer hunting in Pennsylvania. She was never in the miltary unless you count dodging imaginary sniper fire in an incident that never happened. Hillary wants big govt.

John McCain is a graduate of the US Naval Academy. His father and grandfather were both admirals. He served with honor as a Naval Aviator. His integrity is such that he remained for years in a Vietnameese prison being tortured daily because he refused to use his fathers influence to get his freedom thus abandoning his men. (They offerer to send him home because his father was CINC Naval Air Forces Pacific.) He is a bit outspoken, to the point where he is known as "senator hothead" but thats because he leads like Navy Captain - which is what he was. (The equivelant of a Col.) He has a long and distinguished history in politics and is above all a man of honor who subscribes to the Navy code - Honor, Courage, Committment.

To put it simply - we have a mouthy bitch crooked lawyer married to a womanizing crooked lawyer, a mouthy half black radical muslim crooked lawyer married to a mouthy bitch anti-american lawyer. Or we have a war hero Naval Aviator, married to a gorgeous blonde who owns a beer company. :) Tough choice huh?

MC CAIN!!!!!!!!!! 


I can't think of a worse disservice one could do to Senator McCain than to link him to this sort of drivel.




Irishknight -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 5:17:26 PM)

Novacancy, I think you have overlooked a few things.  If we switch to a nationwide sales tax, we can eliminate the waste of money we call the IRS.  The people in those jobs can go to being far more productive citizens.  We will also enjoy getting tax money from the illegals who don't pay taxes (And YES I realize that some do).  We could easily cover all of our obligations with a consumption tax as opposed to an income tax.  Large corporations and wealthy people would still shoulder a large portion because they buy bigger toys and more stuff with which to make their products.
The current system is broken.  We can't fix it.  Time to get a new one.




NoVacancy -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 5:42:58 PM)

.
IrishKnight, I would not be opposed to a serious discussion about a national sales tax.  And as long as we didn't exempt corporations or the wealthy, or the things they commonly purchase, I think it could actually still be considered a progressive tax. 




Irishknight -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 5:45:30 PM)

I somehow thought you would see it that way.  The corps would have to be taxed otherwise it would be as flawed as this system.




Lordandmaster -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 6:41:28 PM)

Actually, they have relatively clear stances--as compared to some of the wishy-washy candidates we've had in recent elections.  The one who's the vaguest is probably Obama, but he has some very specific proposals too.  Have you started by, say, looking at their websites?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirren

The fact is, none of them seem to have a clear stance on anything that will be of any meaningful impact to turn the economic digression of this country around.




Hanable -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/7/2008 9:28:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NoVacancy

Hannable:  You know on your tax return where you can put the little check mark to indicate that you want $10 of your taxes to go towards publically funded elections? (and that it will neither increase nor decrease your refund).  THIS is the money that is used to fund voter owned elections. 

What are Voter Owned Elections?

The concept of Voter Owned Elections (or 'Public Campaign Financing') is simple
: the public helps fund the campaigns of candidates who can demonstrate a wide base of public support by collecting a large number of small donations. In exchange, candidates agree to limit their private fundraising. Voter Owned Elections (also known as 'public financing of campaigns') is a good government reform that helps ensure that candidates are accountable to the public, rather than private interests, and creates a situation where all serious candidates have enough resources to get their message into the hands of voters.
  • Gives voters the opportunity to make a decision based on the merits of the candidates rather than their fundraising abilities
  • Ensures candidates are accountable to the public rather than private interests
  • Ensures minority groups have a fair opportunity to participate in elective and governmental processes
  • Significantly reduces the amount of time that candidates need to spend raising money -- giving them more time to focus on serving the public
  • Saves money by reducing inappropriate giveaways to campaign contributors




i think that would be so much better the the bull sh*t that we have now.. the public is being forgotten becuz the big business contributers shovle figure after figure into campaigns so they will be taken care of.

H >:)




calamitysandra -> RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? (5/8/2008 12:11:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirren
Sex ed in KINDERGARTEN? This guy is the anti christ...


Please tell me you were being ironic.





Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
4.296875E-02