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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/9/2008 6:28:32 PM   
DomAviator


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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

Let me start with a few important thinking points.

The President is the Chief Executive of the United States, and the Commander In Chief of her military. 


And for this reason, the President of the United States should have been IN the military. I actually suggest we should have a Constitutional Ammendment requiring this. Of the three only John McCain was... He was both the son and grandson of Admirals and is himself a graduate of the United States Naval Academy, a decorated war hero - not just for being shot down but for the firefighting efforts aboard the Forrestal films of which as shown in boot and OCS to this very day, and later a squadron commander.

quote:


One other point-

John McCain is, by far, the most politically experienced of the candidates- he was elected to the Senate before Obama even went to law school. However, none of them have significant executive  experience- all are moving up from the legislature (Congress).


In addition to his legislative experience McCain has signifigant executive experience as a squadron CO. (in fact he took over a completely FUBAR squadron and turned it around to win a meritorious unit commendation.) For those unaware, between the aircraft, pilots, shops, fuel budget, enlisted men, etc running a Navy Squadron is roughly the equivelant of being the CEO of a 500 Milllion dollar a year corporation.

< Message edited by DomAviator -- 5/9/2008 6:29:51 PM >

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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/9/2008 6:34:47 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Really? And when was the last time the Navy turned a profit?

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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/9/2008 6:40:50 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline 		Oh, one thing i missed in my summary of the Democratic primary- both Clinton and Obama have burned so much political capital, good will, and funding in the battle against each other that they will be facing a serious uphill battle against the Republican candidate. Unless McCain gets caught on tape getting buttsecks from a male prostitute and then cleaning up with the American flag, he will be our next President. Honestly, as long as the prostitute isn't an illegal immigrant i still wouldn't write him off, particularly if Clinton gets the nomination on the D side. 

And for what it's worth, i do have a degree in political science, so i'm not completely pulling this all out of my butt

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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/9/2008 7:04:48 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

Oh, one thing i missed in my summary of the Democratic primary- both Clinton and Obama have burned so much political capital, good will, and funding in the battle against each other that they will be facing a serious uphill battle against the Republican candidate. Unless McCain gets caught on tape getting buttsecks from a male prostitute and then cleaning up with the American flag, he will be our next President. Honestly, as long as the prostitute isn't an illegal immigrant i still wouldn't write him off, particularly if Clinton gets the nomination on the D side. 

And for what it's worth, i do have a degree in political science, so i'm not completely pulling this all out of my butt




"both Clinton and Obama have burned so much political capital, good will, and funding in the battle against each other that they will be facing a serious uphill battle against the Republican candidate."

Not really true.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_clinton-224.html

and


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html


That they`re hurting each other is a myth.

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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/9/2008 7:06:40 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

Let me start with a few important thinking points.

The President is the Chief Executive of the United States, and the Commander In Chief of her military. 


And for this reason, the President of the United States should have been IN the military. I actually suggest we should have a Constitutional Ammendment requiring this. Of the three only John McCain was... He was both the son and grandson of Admirals and is himself a graduate of the United States Naval Academy, a decorated war hero - not just for being shot down but for the firefighting efforts aboard the Forrestal films of which as shown in boot and OCS to this very day, and later a squadron commander.

quote:


One other point-

John McCain is, by far, the most politically experienced of the candidates- he was elected to the Senate before Obama even went to law school. However, none of them have significant executive  experience- all are moving up from the legislature (Congress).


In addition to his legislative experience McCain has signifigant executive experience as a squadron CO. (in fact he took over a completely FUBAR squadron and turned it around to win a meritorious unit commendation.) For those unaware, between the aircraft, pilots, shops, fuel budget, enlisted men, etc running a Navy Squadron is roughly the equivelant of being the CEO of a 500 Milllion dollar a year corporation.


"And for this reason, the President of the United States should have been IN the military. "

Does that include guys that were AWAL or got bounced out of the military,like Bush?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/9/2008 7:09:48 PM >

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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/9/2008 9:07:47 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		I believe that the Dem candidate would have a better chance if they'd quit fighting already.  Hillary supporters are getting pissed at Obama for beating her and Obama supporters are getting pissed because she won't go ahead and get out of the way.  I realize that not all dems are feeling this way but I am fearing these thing more and more.  It almost seems like they WANT McCain to win.
Add to that the fact that the reps already have their candidate and are starting to unify their positions .... it doesn't look good for somebody.

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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/9/2008 10:14:02 PM   
Hanable


Posts: 3284
Joined: 3/19/2007
From: BFE ohio
Status: offline 		i agree irish.. i was for obama.. but now im leaning towards Mccain.. cuz the dems jsut wont shut up about each other and get to the issues.. hell thats what most of this thread is about.. trying to figure out what issues r up and whos for what. now idk who would be best for the job.. btu does it really matter? theres so much red tape and BS.. the president really isnt the main person any mroe.. its the red tape buracrates and lobbiests that wont go away who have the power any more.. it saddens me.

H >:)

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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/9/2008 10:37:27 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

Let me start with a few important thinking points.

The President is the Chief Executive of the United States, and the Commander In Chief of her military. 


And for this reason, the President of the United States should have been IN the military. I actually suggest we should have a Constitutional Ammendment requiring this.



Good luck with that.

While i'm certainly no fan of draft-dodgers (WJ Clinton OR George II... i still consider the Swift Boat Campaign to be one of the greatest examples of chutzpah in our time), military service is no guarantee of a good President. Eisenhower and Grant were both highly respected generals, and neither made an especially good President (Grant, in fact, was a pretty lousy one).

< Message edited by petdave -- 5/9/2008 10:38:36 PM >

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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/9/2008 11:03:14 PM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

Good luck with that.

While i'm certainly no fan of draft-dodgers (WJ Clinton OR George II... i still consider the Swift Boat Campaign to be one of the greatest examples of chutzpah in our time), military service is no guarantee of a good President. Eisenhower and Grant were both highly respected generals, and neither made an especially good President (Grant, in fact, was a pretty lousy one).


George W. Bush was a commissioned officer serving as an F-102 pilot in the 147th Fighter Wing, based out of Ellington Field. The "Guardians of the Gulf" as they are known have a long and distinguished history with overseas deployments ranging from WW1 to as recently as Iraq in 2005 when they flew 462 strikes with a 100% launch readiness and 100% hit rate on their targets. Becoming a commissioned officer and fighter pilot in a distingished Air National Guard unit that has fought in every major combat action we have been involved in since WW1 is not exactly "draft dodging"... As a point of fact, during the Vietnam War a pilot / aircrewman had a MUCH higher change of being killed or captured than an infantryman. So bush hardly "draft dodged"

However, the point I was making is if a person is going to be commander in chief of the military, then he should damn well understand it. For example if Slick Willy had been a military officer he would have realized the idiocy that would lead to the horrors of the Battle of Mogasidhu. No armor, no air cover but some Littlebirds and Blackhawks, daylight raid, etc... Im not saying they need to be Generals like Ike, but they should have at least been in.... If you're going to be the conductor of the orchestra you should know how to play an instrument.... 

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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/9/2008 11:34:49 PM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

You`ll excuse Bush/Cheney for anything.

To be fair,do you have any criticisms for the current administration?

And no stupid answers like,Bush hasn`t tortured enough brown people yet or hasn`t invaded Iran,yet.

Did you even look at the "Frontline" piece?I don`t think you did.For Bushies,it`s like a trip to the denist.


Actually, yes I have several criticisms of the administration and its policies. The transponder return based secondary radar service used in air traffic control not being able to detect bogeys originating within the US is not one of them. The planes did not cross an ADIZ (air defense identification zone) so they werent on primary radar... I cant criticize bush for a system that works fine to do what it is supposed to do - provide separation between aircraft on IFR flight plans and flight following / advisory service to VFR aircraft on a time available basis.

As for real criticisms -

1) I dont think we have taken a hard enough line on Iran. Not an invasion per se, but when their patrol boats were harassing our ships they should have been blown out of the water.

2) Homeland security is a fucking joke. I am not going to elaborate on it here for obvious reasons, but living where I do and knowing what I know - two guys with a fishing boat, a set of scuba gear, and a bic lighter could kill thousands and disrupt the national economy in a way that would make 9-11 seem like a girl scout jamboree. We need to stop the focus on "high tech" and stop looking for the "suitcase nuke" - 9-11 was an attack with box cutters on a soft target.  Our enemies are low tech ignorant cretens who use boxcutters, truck bombs, improvised devices, and suicide belts - not genetically engineered bioweapons or suitcase nukes... We arent looking out for those threats - the ones most liekly to occur.

3) I do not agree with the continual slashing of the prime rate. It is undoubtedly responsible for the current housing fiasco. Some people should own homes others shouldnt... Those who shouldnt should not have been able to get mortgages which are now in foreclosure at record levels. Bad move. If your previous financial institution was the corner pawn shop you shouldnt have a house mortgage.

#4) No child left behind focuses on testing the students not the teachers. A shockingly large number of teachers are complete fucking idiots who shouldnt be entrusted with potted plants much less kids. My ex-wife was a teacher who thought that the "War of 1912" (yes thats not a typo she insists it was 1912) was between us and Spain and FRANKLIN Roosevelt fought in it. I recently dated a student teacher who thinks Iraq is on the other side of Galveston cause thats "the Gulf and theres all kinds of oil out there"... The public school system is a mess and the solution is cleaning idiots out of the teaching ranks not testing the kids.

So yes I have my issues with the Bush administration - but the war in Iraq is not one of them and NOBODY could have stopped those 9-11 planes with no transponders on, no primary radar coverage, and no legal authority for a military pilot to fire on them.

However, no I didnt bother with the Frontline piece... Its typical bush bashing propaganda. Fault the man for what is indeed his fault but those guys were in pilot training on student visas issued during the CLINTON years. Bush didnt let them in, he just got stuck with the aftermath.


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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/10/2008 12:11:10 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		I see that ignorance is bliss,for some.

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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/10/2008 4:11:07 AM   
unDEAD


Posts: 41
Joined: 5/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado


Oh yeah... school just got out didn't it? That would explain the influx of sophomoric trolls.


No, I've been out of school for some time.  It's people like yourself, those who dismiss (at the VERY LEAST) anyone who dares point out all the bullshit perpetrated by this country's shit hole government, that are the real problem.  There will never be any sort of real change while people willingly swallow everything they feed you.  Enjoy your imagined importance and failed system.

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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/10/2008 4:25:52 AM   
VenerableHouse


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Joined: 2/5/2008
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quote:

147th Fighter Wing


True... the 147th Fighter Wing has a long history of service to this nation, having celebrated their 90th anniversary last year but simply being a member of 147th does not mean a thing, in and of itself. Bush joined the National Guard 12 days before his student deferment would have expired, and in spite of his low score on the pilot's aptitude test (25, the lowest score allowed), and in spite of the waiting list that some kids spent years on, Bush was sworn in as an airman the day he applied.  Indeed, so giddy was Bush's commander, Col. Walter B. "Buck" Staudt, that he later staged a special ceremony so he could have his picture taken giving Bush the oath, instead of the captain who actually had sworn Bush in.  Bush spent two years learning to fly airplanes in his home state of Texas.

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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/10/2008 5:43:09 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VenerableHouse

quote:

147th Fighter Wing


True... the 147th Fighter Wing has a long history of service to this nation, having celebrated their 90th anniversary last year but simply being a member of 147th does not mean a thing, in and of itself. Bush joined the National Guard 12 days before his student deferment would have expired, and in spite of his low score on the pilot's aptitude test (25, the lowest score allowed), and in spite of the waiting list that some kids spent years on, Bush was sworn in as an airman the day he applied.  Indeed, so giddy was Bush's commander, Col. Walter B. "Buck" Staudt, that he later staged a special ceremony so he could have his picture taken giving Bush the oath, instead of the captain who actually had sworn Bush in.  Bush spent two years learning to fly airplanes in his home state of Texas.


Is it not true that one needs to be fully proficient and have a pilot`s license before joining the ANG?

Bush had neither of those and still was able to jump ahead of the line.

Bush, goes to show that military experience is no guarantee that one is competent or has good judgment.

Bush is an example that the opposite is true.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Careful,that guy sees facts and real events as liberal propaganda.

As one can see,he follows the Rove talking points,where nothing is real,real is fake and cowards are heroes.

He actually thinks the last 8 years were good and would vote for Bush again,given the chance.

He also claims to have been in the military,...I doubt it.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/10/2008 6:21:55 AM >

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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/10/2008 6:38:46 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: unDEAD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado


Oh yeah... school just got out didn't it? That would explain the influx of sophomoric trolls.


No, I've been out of school for some time.  It's people like yourself, those who dismiss (at the VERY LEAST) anyone who dares point out all the bullshit perpetrated by this country's shit hole government, that are the real problem.  There will never be any sort of real change while people willingly swallow everything they feed you.  Enjoy your imagined importance and failed system.



What I'm dismissing is your tired old Stormfront rhetoric about race and Jews...proven lies repeated as though they were facts are neither 'change' nor a solution to any problems.

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/10/2008 10:57:38 AM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Is it not true that one needs to be fully proficient and have a pilot`s license before joining the ANG?

Bush had neither of those and still was able to jump ahead of the line.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Careful,that guy sees facts and real events as liberal propaganda.

As one can see,he follows the Rove talking points,where nothing is real,real is fake and cowards are heroes.

He actually thinks the last 8 years were good and would vote for Bush again,given the chance.

He also claims to have been in the military,...I doubt it.


First of all - no you ABSOLUTELY DO NOT have to have a "pilot's license". As a matter of fact, I didnt even obtain an airman's certificate until I had six years of active duty in the US Navy with a 1315 designator (Unrestricted Line Officer, Naval Aviator, Reserve Commission). My first "pilot's license" was an ATP-ASMEL (Airline Transport Pilot - Airline Single and Multi Engine Land) on the basis of my having 1500+ flight hours and I got it because I wanted to rent a Cessna to do some sight seeing and couldnt get one at the aeroclub so I needed an FAA airman's certificate to rent off base. (There is no "pilot's license" it is an "airman's certificate") Military pilots fly on the basis of their rating as a military aviator they dont have "licenses" or any FAA paperwork.

While it has changed somewhat, when I went through, having any civilian flight experience - such as a private pilot certificate would disqualify you. Civilian flying and military flying are two very different animals, and many - myself included based on my experiences as an IP (instructor pilot) teaching both primary and intermediate at various points - feel that civilian experience is a severe detriment to a students progress in military pilot training. Case in point, civilians are taught to fly visually (with reference to the horizon) and after being licensed SOME then go on to obtain an instrument rating. Military flight instruction begins with instrument flight from Hop 1. The ridgid structure of the program does not lend itself to unlearning bad habits. Bust two hops and you are going home... The aircraft used are also vastly different. The T-34C Turbomentor used in Primary is a hot little turboprop and most commercial pilots wont fly anything close to it in performance until they have 500+ hours - Student Naval Aviators solo it within 15 hours or they are gone... Now the Air Force, as of the past two years or so IS getting its pilot candidates a private license prior to primary flight training BUT it is not taught under Part 61 to civilian stanmdards at the local FBO it is a specific curriculum taught under contract for them by Embry Riddle University as contractor.   The Navy - which also trains the Marines and Coast Guard continues to keep it "in house"...

So NO, Bush met the qualifications which are to have a baccalaurate degree, pass the aptitude test, pass an officer selection board, pass OCS, be commissioned, complete API (Aviation Preflight Indoctrination) , complete Primary and intermediate flight training and then you are winged and move on to your operational (Advanced) training.  

As for your comments about "He claims to have been in the military, I doubt it" well I really don't care what you believe or don't. As you said previously, "your a tradesman" so I suggest you devote less time to trying to decide what you do or dont believe about someone 2000 miles away on the Internet and more time to how you can reduce your prices and remain competitive with the illegal immigrant dayworkers...  My life should have no bearing on yours at all - so stop obsessing sonny, its unhealthy....

< Message edited by DomAviator -- 5/10/2008 11:07:47 AM >

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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/10/2008 11:08:32 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

Is it not true that one needs to be fully proficient and have a pilot`s license before joining the ANG?

... He also claims to have been in the military,...I doubt it.



'Doubt it' based on what?  Your complete and utter ignorance as to how the military operates as proven by the first absurd line above?


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RE: Can some one PLEASE break this down for Me? - 5/10/2008 2:49:20 PM   
unDEAD


Posts: 41
Joined: 5/4/2008
Status: offline 		Haha, now you're just being presumptuous.  I didn't mention word one about race or Jews.  But if you'd like to get technical, the Rothschild's are NOT Hebrew (their lineage doen't trace back to one of the original 12 tribes, but to the Kazars).  As for race, I'm not sure what issue you've taken about my non-existent comment on that topic.  What I'm merely saying is a sham.  Your vote doesn't matter and neither does your (or mine, for that matter) opinion.  We've allowed a small group of people (you can call these people whatever the hell makes you comfortablte; Zionists, Skull and Bones,  Illuminati, Corporations, The Lizard People that live in the hollow earth, the Marshmellow Men... doesn't matter) to highjack it because of people are comfortable with their so called "comforts" to care about anyone else.  

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