RE: Not into the local scene.

RE: Not into the local scene. (Full Version)

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kittinSol -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 7:37:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: camille65 Those that don't do edge play have no reason to build up a reputation in 'the local scene'. That's a really good point.

Leatherist -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 7:43:29 AM)
The reeasons I stay away from "the scene" are pretty easy to understand. I've had bad experiences with control freaks, inane high school politics, and it just stopped being fun. Why would you go to places and participate with people that piss you off and disgust you? Especially if you have to pay to do it? At least when I am with friends in private, I have some control over who I interact with-a choice I don't have at a "club".

MadRabbit -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 7:44:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Actually MadRabbit the references you hypotheticly mentioned would likely be very good sources of information and would hold quite a bit of weight. They might even get me to a 70 lbs of the 96 lbs of data I need. Past threads I have mentioned that references didn't have to be lifestyle, if handled discretely vanilla references might even prove more usefull depending on the goal. I agree with what your saying about the 96 vs 200 lbs of information. For me, however, references in the community won't go beyond the 96lbs. The rest of the information is stuff I have to collect on my own with time I spend with them before making a serious commitment. I have two references within the public scene, but I rarely ever use them. I'll bring a partner into my vanilla life and use those "references" before the ones in the scene. Why? Because both references I got relatively easily without any hassle and they are from two people who don't really know me past their initial judgemental calls and intuition that I am a good person. One person has a large amount of weight in my region. I beleive you know who he is, because I mentioned him once in private emails. Simply mentioning his name and the fact that he offered himself as a reference has earned me a lot of rapport with people simply by mentioning it. Unfortanely, this is the reason why I am uncomfortable using it, because the reference was acquired so easily that it shows the obvious flaw with the whole institution. He doesn't know me like the people in my everyday life do and doesn't know me enough to know for certain that I am not someone with malicous motives, but the simple utterance of his name brings "Oh, well, if Sir M. says your cool, then you must be cool..." To be fair, even my vanilla "references" present a false impression, because with the exception of my roommates and some friends, most of those references know nothing about my private affairs with BDSM which is a testament to how little they know about me.

mistoferin -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 7:52:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: camille65 Those that don't do edge play have no reason to build up a reputation in 'the local scene'. That's a really good point. I disagree. Unless of course you are confining "reputation" to someone's play abilities. I know many people who are well respected in my local scene who aren't edge players. Heck, a few of them are in solid monagamous relationships that are strictly D/s. Reputation encompasses more than play statistics to me. It includes things like honesty, honor, trustworthiness.....integrity. Myself, while there may be a few people who know and respect me for how I play....I would hope that most people know and respect who I am. A good reputation is one that should be built over time by actions that suggest you are a person that conducts themselves with integrity.

Emperor1956 -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 7:53:23 AM)
FR: I'm coming late to this thread, and I agree with whomever mentioned that DominantJenny's original post sure created a lot of vitrol. Why, I don't quite know. The one thing that this thread reminded me of is something that I keep in mind whenever I (or someone I know) gets to full of themselves as an edge player/scene leader/dungeon monitor extraordinare/etc. (and yes, it happens to the best of us): there are hundreds of thousands of happy kinky people doing things to eachother in the privacy of their own relationships who never, ever once have attended a munch, gone to a kinky public event, or even given a thought to "the Scene", or collarme, or even to you. Repeat the above mantra three times whenever you get too full of your own kink. E.

Leatherist -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 7:57:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Emperor1956 FR: I'm coming late to this thread, and I agree with whomever mentioned that DominantJenny's original post sure created a lot of vitrol. Why, I don't quite know. The one thing that this thread reminded me of is something that I keep in mind whenever I (or someone I know) gets to full of themselves as an edge player/scene leader/dungeon monitor extraordinare/etc. (and yes, it happens to the best of us): there are hundreds of thousands of happy kinky people doing things to eachother in the privacy of their own relationships who never, ever once have attended a munch, gone to a kinky public event, or even given a thought to "the Scene", or collarme, or even to you. Repeat the above mantra three times whenever you get too full of your own kink. E. And all without a single proper refference from "MASTERWHO KNOWSEVERYTHING" Imagine that! [:D]

Archer -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 7:58:05 AM)
Oh certainly Madrabbit the references are likely to never be able to fill more than 70lbs of my required 96 lbs, LOL There is a component of the 96 lbs that can only be gotten by face to face personal interatction. Yes there are flaws in the reference idea, several of them have been mentionedI mearly advocate the idea that you don't have to toss out the entire idea because of a few flaws, you simplyhave to fill in the gaps with other sources of information.

kittinSol -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 8:01:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin Unless of course you are confining "reputation" to someone's play abilities. Isn't there quite a lot of that in scening though? It's not a world I have hands on experience of, obviously... but it's fascinating to read about it here :-) .

Leatherist -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 8:07:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin Unless of course you are confining "reputation" to someone's play abilities. Isn't there quite a lot of that in scening though? It's not a world I have hands on experience of, obviously... but it's fascinating to read about it here :-) . Of course,you can have a lot of gullible people totally buffaloed-be great at sceneing, and a total jerk everywhere else-especially when not in the public eye that you are attempting to manipulate.. Another reason that I don't give much credence to refferences. I've been tripped up in the past by letting people get close to me using those sorts of shortcuts. And shortcuts are all that they really are. It's not a substitute for time and association-things you are not going to get in the scene anyhow-people are far too busy playing and showboating at events for that.

Archer -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 8:08:21 AM)
I mentioned earlier I think a few other things that a person in the scene can build a reputation both good and bad for. Good reputation can be built for the way one conducts themselves both in and out of play type things. The same bad and good reputations that can be gathered through this format can also be gained or lost in RT.

kittinSol -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 8:12:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist Of course,you can have a lot of gullible people totally buffaloed-be great at sceneing, and a total jerk everywhere else-especially when not in the public eye that you are attempting to manipulate.. Exactly.

Archer -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 8:19:35 AM)
And you can be private and be the same exact way Leatherist. Being in or out ofthe scene isn't changing how people CAN be. The person can be inthe scene and a mask wearing jackass or the person CAN be private and a mask wearing jackass. The main difference is the ease with which the person can fool the people. Relatively easy to fool one person when compared to fooling 40 people. But it can be done. Again I'm of the mind that says get references if possible as a PART of the entire getting to know someone phase, not instead of all the face to face but in addition to it. Again the basic premise is more information is not going to hurt and it just might help.

mistoferin -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 8:27:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin Unless of course you are confining "reputation" to someone's play abilities. Isn't there quite a lot of that in scening though? It's not a world I have hands on experience of, obviously... but it's fascinating to read about it here :-) . Maybe the confusion comes in when we call it the "scene". I have seen many people who have never been active in a community assume that there will be "scening" at all lifestyle functions...and that simply isn't true. Munches for example, are generally nothing more than a dinner shared. While I have been to a few munches that had a play party that followed at the same location, that is far more rare. At an event where "scening" takes place, sure...the "play ability" aspect of someone's reputation may indeed be considered, I think that at least for me though, the person's reputation regarding their history of how they been known to conduct themselves still takes precedence.

Leatherist -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 8:30:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Oh certainly Madrabbit the references are likely to never be able to fill more than 70lbs of my required 96 lbs, LOL There is a component of the 96 lbs that can only be gotten by face to face personal interatction. Yes there are flaws in the reference idea, several of them have been mentionedI mearly advocate the idea that you don't have to toss out the entire idea because of a few flaws, you simplyhave to fill in the gaps with other sources of information. And I notice that you are totally avoiding my refference to the spokane rape cases. I'm simply exlpoding the myth that being in a public scene somehow instantly makes you "safe", or incapable of being a "predator". These people hid what they were in plain sight-thier lofty words did not match thier deeds-but everyone was fooled until charges were pressed-and sentences handed down.

RavenMuse -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 8:34:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: camille65 Those that don't do edge play have no reason to build up a reputation in 'the local scene'. That's a really good point. Really? I guess you do seem to have a vested interest in thinking that way but who out of those with extensive experience of the scene has given the impression it is about 'edge play'.... sure if you are looking for someone safe to do edgeplay with then the scene IS a good place to be able to see who is respected for their skill in various play areas. When I am meeting someone new, I couldn't care less wether they are into 'edge play' or not, play of any kind isn't the core of a relationship, just an oft enjoyed addition to it. I am more concerned as to the type of person they are, are they a walking drama waiting to happen. Subs/slaves I know want to know is the person is likely to be being honest with them, are they a one night wonder or someone who genuinly looks for and tries to build a relationship, making sure they don't just rip the other person off, treats the girl with care, doesn't use emotional blackmail and confidence destroying bullshit. All things that as Archer mentions are harder to hide when things aren't entirely private, when people and their partners ARE reasonably well known. People can get negative reputations as well as positive ones and if the 'local scene' is above a certain size then you can pretty much rule out the clique factor. I am far more involved in the social side of the London scene, I don't do that much public play... it certainly isn't about 'edge play' here in London!

LordOfTheMad -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 8:35:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael The vitriol in this thread is a bit surprising! I have yet to hear anyone say "if you are not in the scene you wicked/bad/evil/a predator" and yet that is exactly how people seem to be taking it. People hear me saying someone is suspect for not being involved in the scene and imagine me saying they are guilty of something and nothing could be farther from the truth. I simply want to know WHY they have avoided being involved in it. There are valid reasons for it and invalid reasons and I want to know which it is. Same in fact goes for people for whom the scene is the entirety of their existence, they are just as "suspect" to me and again I want to know why they are so involved. When I said someone is "suspect" for not being in the scene I want to know WHY they have chosen not to participate. In my last relationship I spent almost four years OUT of the scene and only played in private. Currently I attend a munch every other month or so and a party about as often. The only thing I attempt to attend regularly is a MaST meeting. I certainly don't base whether or not someone is "real" on whether or not they have been in the scene but in a place like Sacramento that has upwards of three or four groups hosting events and with San Francisco a short drive away with events nearly every day YES I do wonder why someone involved in BDSM has stayed far away from the scene. People in smaller towns with smaller groups are a bit more fucked. If your local group is run by dipshits and the scene isn't big enough to support an alternative, avoiding the scene IS a good sign. Small groups can be very dysfunctional, back in the days when I first started, our local group was exactly like that. The scene has its share of nutjobs to be sure. I once bottomed (I fell for the "real doms need to bottom to learn what it was like bs) to an officer in The Society of Janus, one of the oldest BDSM groups around, and her reaction was frigging bizarre afterwards and I had to give HER aftercare and I lost a lot of respect for SOJ after that. However, what happened to me was minor in the real scheme of things and if she was actually dangerous I could have run her out of the scene. MadRabbit makes a good point that he has a framework of vanilla friends who "vet" him to potential partners. Nothing wrong with that at all and that is what you normally do in vanilla life. You meet people through friends and a wide social network and while imperfect, it does provide a good bit of feedback on a partner. And just like the scene, plenty of people meet and fall in love outside it but it does seem to work for a lot of people. What's surprising is that you don't get why people object to you what you said. People are not suspect because of where they choose to socialise for whatever reasons. All this "we're not saying you're guilty, you're just a suspect" thing... you can stick that where the sun don't shine. Is this supposed to endear me to your point? I'm very glad you accept that people have "valid" reasons for not going somewhere but here's another you didn't cover "I don't want to and I don't have to". Plus, you don't exactly give a great advert with "I could have run her out of town" rhetoric. Aren't you the big man....

Mercnbeth -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 8:35:34 AM)
Our local scene... We talk, we eat, we share stories about various clubs. We also talk about pets, neighborhoods, the price of gas, and vacations. We've bowled, played pool, ridden a mechanical bull, and next Sunday have a golf outing planned. Oh yeah, we also car pool to events and get together to and go to BDSM clubs. There have been a number of people who've come just to see if anything they've read about in books or on the internet is real. People have come because they've been told they are a freak by their partners, friends, and family and wanted to know if they are unique and alone. Come to a munch and you may find someone you can trust to hold your hand while satisfying your curiosity about experiencing a night at a local dungeon. You may not like either experience, fantasy is often better than reality; but sometimes its not. Our reference is jaded, based upon NYC and LA experiences. The variety of groups is amazing, ranging from the most 'anal' rule and secrecy oriented, to the clique-ish, to the foolish, to the fraud, to the controlling. However the majority are just social that, by appearance, can be a local PTA or Rotary group. People come with questions; about themselves, about what's out there. Sometimes you get to hear them and it opens discussion; many are answered by the simple process of attending. People come with agendas, others come to get visual references for some fantasy that they'll play out at home. Does it matter? No. These 7 pages of posts justifying why you go or don't go to a Munch seems to be attracting those in need of validation. Maybe this is the same, but reality is, those that don't go - aren't missed. Those that do - aren't special. Not going may represent fear. However going can represent fear too - the fear of being 'ordinary'. There is also a different dynamic attending as we do, a couple, versus showing up as an unattached single. There is the consideration of appearing 'desperate'. There is the thought, that everyone will be talking about the 'new kid'. It happens in the CM community. This is an ongoing cyber munch where everyone gets their own food, avoiding the need for separate checks. Except at a live munch, you don't get to consult google, and the profile 'picture' you bring to a munch is always current. That can be scary for some who's portrayal on CM has no resemblance to the person or personality they'd be bringing to real life interaction. On-line is safer, easier to hide, easier to pretend; but regardless of your cyber interaction and how you blaze the keyboard; it's warmth can not compare to a human handshake or a friendly hug. If you like being social - you'll tend to gravitate to a group under an umbrella of commonality. Whether that commonality is WIITWD or quilting - the same distribution of group dynamic and individual quirks will appear. If that scares you, or isn't something you want/need to invest time - you have an CM outlet. If, on the other hand, you are a social dynamo who loves the company of others and needs real time interaction to validate legitimacy - you may get it from a munch, but again its no guarantee. There are an equal percentage of frauds at a real time munch as there are on the CM message boards. I cast my doubt on those that feel a need to denigrate either method. To me it points to a insecurity whose only method of feeling good about themselves is to mock or try to make the opposing view less 'real'. Interestingly, there was a recent discussion about this type person - the 'sensitive fraud'. A passive aggressive type who is so insecure that they must attack any thought or position that they don't like, or disagree. It's a person who complains to the FTC about TV programing, instead of changing the channel, or turning off the 'offending' devise. A person who has a version of 'freedom' best described as making anything they don't like or don't do illegal. Similar to a Pope condemning the use of birth control - the hypocrisy of a sanctimonious opinion that doesn't have any application, use, or reference in their own life. Oh well - what does it matter? Meanwhile - there's a South Bay munch tomorrow night in Torrance. We'll be there - because we like it, love the people, and have a great time. If we didn't go - we wouldn't be missed and nothing about us is different; the same applies to all of you. Feel free to chat about it on CM, or not.

Archer -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 8:38:02 AM)
Leatherist, wake up, nobody here has in any way said or even infered it did, that's your weak strawman argument. I've even mentioned repeatedly that the community can be fooled as well. (Repeat that last line as often as you need to to get it through the skull) I mentioned the flaws even in the post you quoted, stipulated to the idea that it's not a be all end all multiple times but you have chosen the low road of ignoring those. I've been as fair and open minded about people being able to choose whatever way they want to get the information as anyone could be. Find the place I said being in the scene somehow instantly makes you "safe", or incapable of being a "predator". , you can't because it isn't there.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 8:38:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael I certainly don't base whether or not someone is "real" on whether or not they have been in the scene but in a place like Sacramento that has upwards of three or four groups hosting events and with San Francisco a short drive away with events nearly every day YES I do wonder why someone involved in BDSM has stayed far away from the scene. Since I think I'm the only one in Sacramento who has responded in this thread, I'll repeat the answer I already gave - I am unimpressed with the personalities I have encountered (yours included) and therefore turned off from participating in the scene. Staying "far away" is an exaggeration, however, as I've been rather close to its door, contemplating. Your behavior in this thread helped me make my ultimate decision, however. There are friends in other Bay Area towns whose scenes I might involve myself in, if I have time. As I said before, my life is quite full as it is. And if you think to say someone is "suspect" is benign, you may want to look the word up, as it means under suspicion, regarded as untrustworthy, and believed to be guilty.

LordOfTheMad -> RE: Not into the local scene. (5/12/2008 8:50:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Leatherist, wake up, nobody here has in any way said or even infered it did, that's your weak strawman argument. I've even mentioned repeatedly that the community can be fooled as well. (Repeat that last line as often as you need to to get it through the skull) I mentioned the flaws even in the post you quoted, stipulated to the idea that it's not a be all end all multiple times but you have chosen the low road of ignoring those. I've been as fair and open minded about people being able to choose whatever way they want to get the information as anyone could be. Find the place I said being in the scene somehow instantly makes you "safe", or incapable of being a "predator". , you can't because it isn't there. quote: Faced with a choice between "person A" a memeber of the community known by some folks and "person B" private person with no references telling me they are in fact a decent person. [Person A starts off with a significant head start because the information I need to be comfortable with them is easily and quickly available. This isn't to say that I would ignore person B at all but rather that because they chose to remain private it's going to take longer. Up to each of us how we want to restrict information about ourselves. But to do so without thought that the natural consequences may be that someone passes us by (cutting both ways)or that someone else reaches that level of intimacy first and thus we are left behind is short sighted The point that I believe Leatherist is trying to make is that the information you speak of is completely meaningless and he is citing those rapes as an example to why.

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