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RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/10/2008 5:26:43 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

The history of Iran after the Shah, proves otherwise. This despot as you call him, was voted in and the current radical faction has a pretty firm control on things. Next elections are 2009, and hopefully moderates will prove to be the victor, but we will see.

Let us not forget there has been an underground movement against the Cubans, Chinese, North Koreans and others, but they have not been very successful.

Have you even read anything about the radical group that is currently in power? Have you seen the control Iran has over other radical organizations, such as Hezbelouh?




OK, you believe in your country right or wrong. Mostly wrong at the moment.

If you had really read the history of Iran, you could only come to one conclusion, the state of affairs in Iran today is a direct result of western interference.

Cuba had a revolution because its masters and their imperial backers (USA) were corrupt. As for China, my guess America is worried about them, not because they are not a democracy, (backing dictators has never been a problem for the US) but because China is in the ascendency and threatens to topple the US from its dominat position.

Hezzbollah is not an Iranian creation but created by Israeli aggression in Lebanon. Without the Israeli  occupation of southern Lebanon there would not be a Hezzbollah. That should be both a lesson to Israel and the US but both appear to duffer from myopia.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 5/10/2008 5:29:40 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/10/2008 5:33:12 PM   
Level


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Status: offline 		It's one of my fondest hopes that the progressive faction in Iran can gain control someday soon, but with the mullahs and their followers jacking with the elections.... it may have to come to violence to happen.

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/10/2008 7:03:54 PM   
orfunboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

I read once that people hate jews because they allowed "the great saviour of mankind" to be killed.

I have heard this and never really understood the logic. If you believe that Jesus was the Son of God, and you believe that God planned the whole thing, then how can you blame the jews for basically carrying out Gods orders. If you don't believe that Jesus was the Son of God, then why would you care who killed him or why. Are you really going to hate all jews because some carpenter was killed 2000 years ago?


The other explanation is their will to survive and succeeding in it. While others fail.

Yea, but you usually hear that from people who haven't been quite so successful themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/10/2008 7:15:53 PM   
stella41b


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Status: offline 		The problem is Jews, Christians and Muslims all have the same God but he appears to be telling them different things.

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/10/2008 8:02:58 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

You said random remarks made by the President of Iran, but in fact he has said it numerous times, and the faction he is a part of has also said it. Why do you dismiss his remarks so easily?


the amount of stupid remarks are plenty. But as I said...they seem more propaganda...food for hungry people....then a strategy for the whole country.
They know also they need the world...to buy oil from them.

Why I dismiss his remarks? BEcause he hardly did anything yet, but scream.  O.K. he has his nuclear stuff, but so do other countries.
There are more dangerous situations in the world. But it seems the east is our main focus......for some reason.

I myself have a hard time believing anything about the middle east since they admitted they lied about Iraq. Lies can change the whole world.
America was the guard of our planet. Now they are seen so differently. It had great impact. And stupid Europe..couldn't think..but just followed..instead of talking.
Guess every one is to blame. The question  is how to stop a ragin bull





That`s how I feel.

Ackmed A`mad-man`ajade was/is playing to the useful idiots in Iran,just like Bush has done here,scaring them shitless, into doing whatever he wants.

They`ve both used each other,for each other`s benefit.

They are like two sides of the same sick, crazy ,paranoid coin.

A little talked about fact is that Bush`s "Iran is part of the axis of evil"talk,put Ackmed A`mad-man`ajade over the top in a close election there.

Bush actually helped the guy win,with his reckless banter and swagger and by scaring the useful idiots there into backing him.Iran`s president, is their version of a lying neo-con.

Iran is a very westernized nation with a lot of moderate,thinking people.But the scared,frightened useful idiots there were able to prevail,with the help of Bush.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now,because Bush and the neo-cons have gotten us stuck there and destroyed Iraq,they actually made Iran the greater power in the region,handing them a win.

Doing that, is probably their biggest fuck up,short of the 4000 plus GIs they got killed there.

These know-it-all ,know-nothings were so eager to invade and spill blood,that they couldn`t consider that their folly would land Iran as the region`s powerhouse.

What a bunch of fuck-ups they are,and they dare to presume to lecture us on what`s best for the middle east.




(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/10/2008 8:14:31 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I watched a segment of Glenn Beck last night, so I did some reading. The similarities between 1938 and Iran are very weird, because they are very similar. Rather than go that direction, I thought a discussion about democracy in the middle east may be more relevant.

Can anyone name the countries in the Middle East that have democratically elected officials?

Seattle and South Africa.

Can anyone name the countries of the Middle East that are run by those that believe in a fanatical ideology?

Chopped Endive and Masterpiece Theater.

What type of military and economic power do these countries have?

I know this one!!!!!  It's just a jump to the left....

Can anyone name the countries that wish the Jews removed from the Middle East or dead?

That would be "Pop Cans for $500.00" Alex.  (Did I win something???  Say I did....say I did...please!!!!!)

Are the Israeli people being blamed more today than they were 30 years ago?

(Why is the room spinning so much?)

Are there any other countries meddling in the Middle East, besides the United States?

I have a new book....it has many pages.

If so, how are they meddling?

Why does it hurt so much when I pee?

Hopefully people will do their own research and not go by what the media says, before they answer these questions.

Now the last one, how strongly do you believe in democracy and that everyone should live under that process to establish a government?

I love soft serve ice cream.  Especially when the sun is shining so brightly.



(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/11/2008 1:25:05 AM   
Justme696


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Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I watched a segment of Glenn Beck last night, so I did some reading. The similarities between 1938 and Iran are very weird, because they are very similar. Rather than go that direction, I thought a discussion about democracy in the middle east may be more relevant.

Can anyone name the countries in the Middle East that have democratically elected officials?

Seattle and South Africa.

Can anyone name the countries of the Middle East that are run by those that believe in a fanatical ideology?

Chopped Endive and Masterpiece Theater.

What type of military and economic power do these countries have?

I know this one!!!!!  It's just a jump to the left....

Can anyone name the countries that wish the Jews removed from the Middle East or dead?

That would be "Pop Cans for $500.00" Alex.  (Did I win something???  Say I did....say I did...please!!!!!)

Are the Israeli people being blamed more today than they were 30 years ago?

(Why is the room spinning so much?)

Are there any other countries meddling in the Middle East, besides the United States?

I have a new book....it has many pages.

If so, how are they meddling?

Why does it hurt so much when I pee?

Hopefully people will do their own research and not go by what the media says, before they answer these questions.

Now the last one, how strongly do you believe in democracy and that everyone should live under that process to establish a government?

I love soft serve ice cream.  Especially when the sun is shining so brightly.





lol are you closely related to Bush and the Iranian president?

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/11/2008 1:35:56 AM   
Justme696


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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Have you even read anything about the radical group that is currently in power? Have you seen the control Iran has over other radical organizations, such as Hezbelouh?


How many fractions ..world wide..are supported by the USA?

I think one of the problems with America is that they had no "real" terrorist/war threat on their own soil. (which is great ofcourse)
Every thing they disliked was fought on foreign soil. Their citizens were always pretty safe..untill 9-11.
IF you never feel the result of your actions, you think you can go on forver and the way you think will never be influenced.
One would have thought the USA (politicians, not the people) would start to think now about not putting their nose in all things not their business.
But no..they lied..and invaded Iraq..which made even their allies in the East pissed.

If Iraq and Al-quada were a real thread...especially afther the invasion....there would have been more attacks on USA soil. But they were so small..that they are notr capable off doing it.
BEsides that American economy is going downhill.  You are not longer a free person in Europe and the USA because of terrorist threats.(Information is stored from phonmes, mails etc)

One fucking lie..and the whole world changes..and the people who lied still walk around.

At least soem people in the world are honest in beeing assholes...that way we know who are enemies are. 

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/11/2008 1:47:10 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

I read once that people hate jews because they allowed "the great saviour of mankind" to be killed.
The other explanation is their will to survive and succeeding in it. While others fail.


And yet the same people who ascribe to the first viewpoint never seem to blame the Italians.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/11/2008 1:50:52 AM   
Justme696


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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

I read once that people hate jews because they allowed "the great saviour of mankind" to be killed.
The other explanation is their will to survive and succeeding in it. While others fail.


And yet the same people who ascribe to the first viewpoint never seem to blame the Italians.


Judas was not Italian :P
And Italy didn't excist :P
But I know what you mean. The Roman Empire...using the spear of longinus to kill Jesus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spear_of_Destiny

*perhaps offtopic**
The judas gospel seems to say that it was meant to be that Judas "gave" Jesus to the Romans. Else he would never be able to rise again.
(which suggests it was all planned by God..to set his son free from his body)


perhaps you didn't mean it..lol....but interesting afther all

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 5/11/2008 1:52:55 AM >

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RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/11/2008 3:29:39 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696


How many fractions ..world wide..are supported by the USA?



Is it a 1/4 ?

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/11/2008 3:30:34 AM   
Justme696


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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696


How many fractions ..world wide..are supported by the USA?



Is it a 1/4 ?


could you explain your question?

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/11/2008 4:22:12 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		You typed Fractions and not factions, i was applying a little humour.

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/11/2008 5:12:29 AM   
Justme696


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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

You typed Fractions and not factions, i was applying a little humour.


oh..I do understand english writing as good as humor written in english..lol.
Sorry... I am Dutch..I will look better at my typing :P

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/11/2008 6:46:10 AM   
orfunboi


Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I watched a segment of Glenn Beck last night, so I did some reading. The similarities between 1938 and Iran are very weird, because they are very similar. Rather than go that direction, I thought a discussion about democracy in the middle east may be more relevant.

Can anyone name the countries in the Middle East that have democratically elected officials?

Seattle and South Africa.

Can anyone name the countries of the Middle East that are run by those that believe in a fanatical ideology?

Chopped Endive and Masterpiece Theater.

What type of military and economic power do these countries have?

I know this one!!!!!  It's just a jump to the left....

Can anyone name the countries that wish the Jews removed from the Middle East or dead?

That would be "Pop Cans for $500.00" Alex.  (Did I win something???  Say I did....say I did...please!!!!!)

Are the Israeli people being blamed more today than they were 30 years ago?

(Why is the room spinning so much?)

Are there any other countries meddling in the Middle East, besides the United States?

I have a new book....it has many pages.

If so, how are they meddling?

Why does it hurt so much when I pee?

Hopefully people will do their own research and not go by what the media says, before they answer these questions.

Now the last one, how strongly do you believe in democracy and that everyone should live under that process to establish a government?

I love soft serve ice cream.  Especially when the sun is shining so brightly.





lol are you closely related to Bush and the Iranian president?


Do they like soft serve too?


(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/11/2008 7:50:31 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Judas was not Italian :P



You sure?.....He was rarely seen wearing anything other than Gucci.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/11/2008 7:52:22 AM   
NorthernGent


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Status: offline 		Orion,

On the first page, you were requesting an honest debate.

In subesequent sheets, it appears you've swerved a challenge to your point of view.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/11/2008 9:04:51 AM   
OrionTheWolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Have you even read anything about the radical group that is currently in power? Have you seen the control Iran has over other radical organizations, such as Hezbelouh?


How many fractions ..world wide..are supported by the USA?


Radical factions? Hmmm, not sure exactly. Do you know? So the problem in Iran should be ignored because others are doing it? Okay.

quote:


I think one of the problems with America is that they had no "real" terrorist/war threat on their own soil. (which is great ofcourse)
Every thing they disliked was fought on foreign soil. Their citizens were always pretty safe..untill 9-11.
IF you never feel the result of your actions, you think you can go on forver and the way you think will never be influenced.
One would have thought the USA (politicians, not the people) would start to think now about not putting their nose in all things not their business.
But no..they lied..and invaded Iraq..which made even their allies in the East pissed.


Actually there have been others. That was the second time the WTC had been attacked, and a countries embassies and military vessels are consider their sovereign property. Yeah Bush lied, but what does that have to do with the possible problem in Iran?

quote:


If Iraq and Al-quada were a real thread...especially afther the invasion....there would have been more attacks on USA soil. But they were so small..that they are notr capable off doing it.
BEsides that American economy is going downhill.  You are not longer a free person in Europe and the USA because of terrorist threats.(Information is stored from phonmes, mails etc)


Yeah that is a theory, but then again it took years to plan the last WTC attack. Maybe they are holding off for something even bigger. Then again I am not talking about just attacks on American soil, I am talking about a country led by a radical religious group that is seeking to gain nuclear weapons. That same country has the resources and strategic positions economically to achieve certain things, that once combined with a nuclear weapon, will give them a hiuge domination factor. Not that I want the US to have it, but I would much prefer a secular regime to have that kind of power.
quote:


One fucking lie..and the whole world changes..and the people who lied still walk around.


Unfortunately true and that lie seems to distract people from taking a closer look at things, just as you are doing.
quote:


At least soem people in the world are honest in beeing assholes...that way we know who are enemies are. 


So if they are honest and use a nuclear weapon to bring about the apocolypse, then it is okay with you, as long as they are honest? What about a stranglehold on the Mid East oil, such that it would drive the economies of any enemy nation, into poverty? So where is the moral line?

I know where mine is, and that is let the rest of the fucking world get what they ask for, with the exception of securing resources for my nation, that will insure the prosperity of generations. I am not talking about all out war, I am talking about more pressure from the international community to force Iran to stop going after nukes, and to force those countries supplying them with the technology to stop as well.

Don't let the bullshit by the American administration, keep you from looking closely yourself, at everything going on.

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RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/11/2008 9:06:53 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings NG,

Slightly yes. You know that I feel that robust discussion, and challenging statements, often bring out the best in ideas. I am still being honest, and it is a debate. I have not been insulting, and not sure what you see as a problem. Let me know.

Live well,
Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Orion,

On the first page, you were requesting an honest debate.

In subesequent sheets, it appears you've swerved a challenge to your point of view.


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Pre-World War 3 - 5/11/2008 10:24:07 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I have not been insulting, and not sure what you see as a problem.

Live well,
Orion



'No problem here, Orion.......I offered the view that the US led invasion of Iraq, and other would-be military escapades in that region, is tyranny; and underpinned by the same reasoning as communist and fascist enterprises. I think the response was "<chuckle>", accompanied by a distinct lack of a counter-argument.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 100
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