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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 6:01:42 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Thank you, DomAviator, I didn't know what they had and I really didn't have the time to look it up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

They have 40 Mig 21's armed with french missles, and something like 26 mig 19's Pretty much a lot of junk... Nothing that the US Navy would even have to get within visual range of to down. A Hornet could engage and splash them from over the horizon. However, its not worth it.

Remember Somalia? How grateful they were for food and medical attention? How they repaid our kindness? Screw Burma.


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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 7:14:38 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Thank you, DomAviator, I didn't know what they had and I really didn't have the time to look it up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

They have 40 Mig 21's armed with french missles, and something like 26 mig 19's Pretty much a lot of junk... Nothing that the US Navy would even have to get within visual range of to down. A Hornet could engage and splash them from over the horizon. However, its not worth it.

Remember Somalia? How grateful they were for food and medical attention? How they repaid our kindness? Screw Burma.



"Remember Somalia? How grateful they were for food and medical attention? How they repaid our kindness? Screw Burma."

Yeah,screw all brown people.They`re all the same, afer all.

That`s been a great foreign policy so far,hasn`t it?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Somalia attack, was planned and executed by al-queda .It`s no wonder the neo-cons are scared shitless and want to turn tail and run like sheep.

Remember the piles of starved ,dead bodies in Somalia?Remember the walking dead and thousands UMs that were starving,dead and dying there?

I believe you`d let that happen in Burma and sleep like a baby,no problem.

You might even grab a beer and enjoy the show.

I think you could watch that with no thought of helping them.After all,some brown people somewhere else burned us,so you`d let the Burmese suffer as payback.Right?

Of course ,that would hand a huge propaganda victory to our enemies and make us look worse than the terrorist do.

But who cares about that,when you can pay back the Somalis with the deaths of the Burmese?




< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/12/2008 7:33:01 AM >

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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 7:31:02 AM   
BrigandDoom


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From: Nottingham
Status: offline 		The United Nations was originally known as the League of Nations and was created after WW1 in order to help prevent another world war and to assist nations in times of disasters. The then American president Woodrow Wilson was one of the major exponents of this and he went to Paris in 1919 to create the League of Nations and shape the Treaty of Versailles, with special attention on creating new nations out of defunct empires. Largely for his efforts to form the League, he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1919. So saying the US shouldn't get involved when it was one of reasons the UN now exists is pure hypocracy. The US administration through meddling causes half of the political problems on this planet! You greatly receive outside help after earth quakes to help find survivors, yet your not prepared to help yourself when others need it! I just hope you whinging b'stards get no help from the outside if you ever need it!

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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 8:33:09 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I'm just wondering why the US and UK need to be the front runners in supplying aid? Damn ..China is right next door and they have the resources and transportation.

I can see us offering aid but practicality says China should be the main player. It's like a disaster in Canada... should we expect China to be the main supplier of aid... no it would be the US because or our proximity.


Butch

(in reply to MissMorrigan)
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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 8:40:46 AM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		It`a "being a world leader" thing.

If you claim to a world leader,you better act like one.

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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 8:42:56 AM   
BrigandDoom


Posts: 155
Joined: 12/29/2007
From: Nottingham
Status: offline 		Looking at the press releases and the information on the net, it seems that the neither the UK or the US are the lead in this operation, but it is a combined UN led operation. It also seems that even the Chinese may be having difficulties dealing with the Burmese junta, as the Chinese are on a "be friendly and helpful" effort due to trying to fend off flak over human rights and the staging of the Olympics.

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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 9:10:47 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Brigand Doom - I feel youre being a little harsh on our American friends with all this, in that WE and the French set up many of the conflicts and problems in the world in which the US has in the past become embroiled and now involves itself, by specifically ignoring the recommendations of the likes of President Wilson in reaching adequate and appropriate and above all fair settlements following WWI, which would have avoided such problems and conflicts.

E

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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 9:33:09 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrigandDoom

The United Nations was originally known as the League of Nations and was created after WW1 in order to help prevent another world war and to assist nations in times of disasters. The then American president Woodrow Wilson was one of the major exponents of this and he went to Paris in 1919 to create the League of Nations and shape the Treaty of Versailles, with special attention on creating new nations out of defunct empires. Largely for his efforts to form the League, he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1919. So saying the US shouldn't get involved when it was one of reasons the UN now exists is pure hypocracy. The US administration through meddling causes half of the political problems on this planet! You greatly receive outside help after earth quakes to help find survivors, yet your not prepared to help yourself when others need it! I just hope you whinging b'stards get no help from the outside if you ever need it!


Brig, exactly, I don't agree with U.S. "meddling" in foreign countries.
And the American People today have had no say in whether we even want to be in the "U.N."
And I believe the league of nations and the "U.N." are two seperate but similar things.
The problem is that anytime the U.S. "joins" anything we are expected to contribute more money and do more than the other "member" countries.
That's why I'm against the U.S. "joining" anything.

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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 9:41:52 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Brigand Doom - I feel youre being a little harsh on our American friends with all this, in that WE and the French set up many of the conflicts and problems in the world in which the US has in the past become embroiled and now involves itself, by specifically ignoring the recommendations of the likes of President Wilson in reaching adequate and appropriate and above all fair settlements following WWI, which would have avoided such problems and conflicts.

E


Would you care to specify ?  The world is a big place so which conflicts do you actually mean. WW2 was down to Hitler and his cronies, even if the terms after WW1 were a bit harsh.

I have to agree that it is quite wrong to blame all the worlds ills on America. Thats not to say they are not responsible for any of it.

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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 10:09:56 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Lets go for the more obvious ones PS -

Europe perhaps - the French primarily wanted Germany destroyed and humiliated. The terms they imposed and to which we subscribed, laid the foundations for WWII, in which the US was vital to the Allies winning in the end. There was no need for the extremity and depth of the terms imposed, which threw a great cultural nation into the state of desperation where Hitler or any of the other extremists of the day would inevitably arise.

The Middle East - between us and the French, we reneged on all the promises made to the Arabs that they would enjoy independence if they helped us to defeat the Ottoman Empire. Instead we carved the region up into our preferred fiefdoms, setting the stage for later conflicts between ethnic groups who simply never liked one another and who when they achieved independence set about warring with one another. It was also us (though post WWII) who allowed Israel to come into existence, adding more fuel to the fire.

E


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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 10:17:51 AM   
MissMorrigan


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Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		The UN was set up to facilitate international security, social progress/economical development, and also to aid in times of disasters. So, to answer you, all countries that are part of the UN should provide aid, however, as with most large 'groups', and I see countries and their governements being no different here, people tend to sit with their thumbs up their arses expecting others to take the initiative... you know China isn't known for its benevolence, although given its proximity I do agree with you there, Butch. As of today, China is dealing with its own disaster, sadly. 

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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 10:33:47 AM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline 		Vietnam was also cleaning up a French mess.. Remember it was French Indochina. The French, with their foreign legion, also left messes all over africa for the South African military and mercenary firms to clean up. (The south african mercs are the only thing that keep any semblemsce of stability in Africa. As soon as something threatens the diamond or gold trade, the South African mercs go put it down and restore order - something the UN cant seem to do.) The whole Kashmir clusterfuck between India and Pakistan is Brit. As LE alluded to, the UK anti semitism (as well as ours) is what gave rise to Isreal creating that whole Palestinian drama... (I have to accept some US blame on that, in that the consensus between churchill, FDR, and ultimately Trruman was that the displaced european jews had to go "SOMEWHERE, just not HERE" and hence isreal was born. If we rolled out the welcome mat to them, as we do for far less productive and persecuted peoples, the world would have been much bettter off but hindsight is 20/20... Seriosuly though, screw Burma. We dont need them, they dont like us anyway.... My friends are always welcome to dine at my table - the asshole who hates me can forage in the dumpster for something. US foreign policy should be like that...

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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 10:36:23 AM   
popeye1250


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Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I'm just wondering why the US and UK need to be the front runners in supplying aid? Damn ..China is right next door and they have the resources and transportation.

I can see us offering aid but practicality says China should be the main player. It's like a disaster in Canada... should we expect China to be the main supplier of aid... no it would be the US because or our proximity.


Butch


I don't have any problem with the U.S. helping out in situations like this or the Tsunami a few years ago.
It's the "Institutional Foreign Aid" that goes on for years and *decades* that I'm against.
Every country in the Carribean is getting some type of "foreign aid" from the U.S. and has been for years and years!
If "foreign aid" really worked the numbers should be going down every year, not up! And there are somewhat in excess of 130 countries that are getting "foreign aid" from the U.S. When does it end?
As a U.S. Taxpayer I simply don't want to be paying for this anymore.
And sadly, our State Dept. instead of simply "representing" us to foreign countries has now become an "advocate" for foreign countries!
For giving them our money!
That's really not part of their job description.
There was a book out a year or two ago about what the State Dept has become and from what I heard about it, it's not pretty!
And of course there are *lobbyists* involved in this whole sordid business.
These are just a few of the reasons that the federal govt. needs *job descriptions* just like in the private sector.
They're out of control!

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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 10:39:53 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

... Seriosuly though, screw Burma. We dont need them, they dont like us anyway....


But therein lies the problem DA - to judge the Burmese people as hateful because of the hateful attitudes of their unelected leaders.

Its a similar association which drives hatred against ordinary citizens of the US (and UK) on the grounds of the hateful attitudes of our leaders - except that we get to elect our leaders I understand

E

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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 10:52:52 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

... Seriosuly though, screw Burma. We dont need them, they dont like us anyway....


But therein lies the problem DA - to judge the Burmese people as hateful because of the hateful attitudes of their unelected leaders.

Its a similar association which drives hatred against ordinary citizens of the US (and UK) on the grounds of the hateful attitudes of our leaders - except that we get to elect our leaders I understand

E


LE, for years now the lefties have been telling anyone who would listen that, "The world hates the U.S."
Why would I want to help anyone who hates me?
There are countries in this world that we'd be better off with out.
Look at N.Korea and Haiti for instance.

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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 11:07:38 AM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline 		LE,

I understand that but you also have to realize that I sat on a ship watching the corpse of an American helicopter pilot being dragged, by the intestines, through the streets of a country by the very people we were helping to feed. 

They mutilated and desecrated the corpses of Army Rangers who went there to feed their sorry asses, during a famine in which over 200,000 of them died. As they slaughtered our men, Hillary's husband got head and wouldnt let us go fly air support to get the poor starving people we were providing humanitarian aid to off our surviving men before they killed them all.   Somalia is a very good analouge to Burma.

After seeing that, my view on starving masses is we will extend our hand to you and if you dont take it with a warm handshake and a big thank you, then starve, die and rot in your hut. We extended our hand, they didnt take it, we dont need to go perform fellatio their leaders to get them to accept our help. If they get hungry enough they will overthrow their govt and replace it with one more friendly to us...

(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 11:24:48 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		The point is that to judge an entire group of people on the basis of what a representative of that group says or does is not very helpful and can indeed be very dangerous for that group and for ourselves.

And I'm sure that had I experienced what you did DA, I would find it difficult to see things that way too - but in the end if we want peace we have to be able to offer the sort of conciliation I advise, and the sort of view you are representing where the time for conciliation is past. Quite simply, you should have been allowed to strafe the hell out of those Somali warlords and their followers, and given the circumstances I'd have not objected at all.

E



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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 12:02:17 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		The Americans armed and trained the Vietminh, to fight against the Japanese. So i dont see how that is a French problem. France had left long before America sent troops, sorry advisors, to help the south.

Kashmir was an Independant State, with its own king, all the time Britain were in India things were fine. Pakistan attacked Kashmir in 1947 to try and get it to join the new Pakistan.

Germany was ripe for take over by a nationalist government. That doesnt mean that the reason we had WW2 was a direct result of WW1. If one was to be picky, you could trace every conflict to days gone by. Todays problems in the middle east are several. Firstly, Israeli v Arab. Secondly Sunni v Shia. Then factor in the interference from Iran and Syria, It is too simplistic to say this is all down to the boundaries after WW1.


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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 1:08:10 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Jesus fucking christ  ... You talk on behalf of an entire nation and say that 'Burma hates us anyway': when were you elected as spokesperson for the Burmese people? Who is this 'us' you refer to?

People like you who talk in nothing else than generalities as if they owned the universal truth astound me...

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RE: Myanmar Junta Turns International Aid Into Form of ... - 5/12/2008 1:34:28 PM   
BrigandDoom


Posts: 155
Joined: 12/29/2007
From: Nottingham
Status: offline 		Times have changed LadyEllen, and where our nation and them across the channel cocked up, not counting WW1 or WW2 as they were a Germanic concoction, the US has interefered where even we feared to tread. The WW1 Western allies must take the blame for the curtrent Kurdish problem, as Kurdistan was a country and nation in its own right and we interfering lot split it three ways!
However, what our US friends are forgetting is that during WW2 both the chindits and Merrills Maurauderers received a great deal of help from the Burmese people whilst fighting the Japanesse invaders, these people often gave their lives to hide allied troops and to then say why bother helping them and let them rot stinks!
It is not the populations fault that the country is run by a brutal junta, which will eventually collapse as they always do, but it's the good old gung-ho attitude that stinks! It's at times like these changes can be slowly introduced. They don't need the marines to storm in either, both the juntas in Argentinia & Chile were overthrown by people power as I suspect Burma's will eventually.

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