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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/14/2008 11:57:57 AM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

If it meant we saved 20-30% in fuel costs?

If it meant not funding world-wide terrorism w/ our petro-dollars?

If it meant an almost total reduction/elimination of foreign oil imports?

If it meant we didn`t have to go to war for oil?

If it meant that the price would fall, due to lessened demand.

If it meant a reduction is the number deaths and/or the severity of crash injuries?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Would you sacrifice the few extra minutes of drive time ,if it meant that all or most of those items could be achieved?

Would you make simple sacrifices like this, for America`s benefit?


In a word, No.

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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/14/2008 2:07:44 PM   
MercTech


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A>  The design criteria for the interstate highway system (Eisenhower started it) was for safe sustained non-urban speeds of 95 mph
B>  The origin of the 55mph speed limit never had anything to do with economy or safety but was a Jimmy Carter idea to show the administration was actually doing something about the gas crisis of 1973
C>  The states only adopted the 55mph speed limit when blackmailed by Joan Claybrook (NHTSA head under Carter) with the withholding of all federal highway money if they didn't comply with her policies.  Note: Joan Claybrook also tried to force seat belts onto motorcycles and withheld federal money from states that did not enact motorcycle helmet laws.

In other words, 55mph is smoke and mirrors.  It only still exists to generate fine moneys for local municipalities.

Stefan

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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/14/2008 4:50:24 PM   
SirRober


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I wasn't making a thing for saving money. but a Idea for more miles to the gallon.
I average 450-500 on 20 gallons in a truck .....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirRober

The best way to save gas while driving is  find the most safe speed at the lowest rpm while traveling.....
So if you can travel at a lower rpm and still maintain speed then you are saving gas.



In the same manner that buying a fur coat on sale is 'saving money'...

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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/14/2008 6:57:12 PM   
Termyn8or


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SR, that is not necessarily true. I admit that it is a logical conclusion but this is another case of when one size does not fit all.

The first point I will make against what I am going to say is yes, lower RPMs are usually better because there is always the factor of friction. It is also true that the crank is reversing the direction of the piston all the time, which uses energy.

But, sometimes in the modern cars, when in a lower gear will reduce the injector duration to the point where the consumption would be the same if not for the friction. If you take a nicely broken in engine and take off the heads, remove the cam drive and everything else you can spin the crank quite easily. At low RPMs, especially as low as they are when you are hand turning it, the mass of the pistons means almost nothing. But at higher RPMs the force required increases exponentially.

That is why engines have a "red line", because the forces become too great if nothing else. Actually the valve train is usually what screws things up, unless it is a desmodramic system (sp).

Now more modern engines have roller lifters than most people are aware. They use exceedingly strong valve springs to eliminate valve float, which happens when the valve and the pushrod are not forced back to the resting (closed) position quickly enough. This is very bad for an engine because the valve might hit the piston which will necessitate a full head job, which is not cheap.

A desmodramic system which does not use springs is best for high RPMs, but is costly. It could only be used in the priceyest of cars, and I actually am not aware of anyone doing it right now, but then I do not know every little thing. Some company could be.

Now here is the problem, in the absence of variable valve timing they can only use so much duration (open valve time) and in the meantime they want the maximum performance, and these days, efficiency is a big part of performance.

So they go to roller lifters, and when they optimize the exact shape of the lobes on the cam, they know they can count on a bit more. And with modern injectors at each intake port they can make it idle smooth, something that was near impossible in the days of the carbeurator. They have ignitions now that will fire a plug even if the electrode is burned clean off, if you ever have a problem with lean misfire (high HC but NOT CO) you can be fairly sure you have an intake manifold leak. And it will set a code.

So the thing is the cam is optimized for a wider torque range, which is what makes a V6 seem to run like a V8 now. The high lift required because of the lack of being able to use more duration because they would be throwing emissions to the wind, requires that those valves close very quickly.

That is why they spent the money to put a roller cam in my car, and that is a 1989.

That is why on the shifter there is a position that disables the overdrive, because in the city you would really not rather have the tranny shift constantly. It saves very little money. Now when you get on the highway it is a different story.

If you look at the specs on an engine, you see torque and horsepower. Horsepower takes RPMs into account while torque does not. A pretty good picture of the torque curve can be derived mathematically from those numbers.

For example there was a year of Corvettes that had two options for the engine. One was a 350 HP V8 and the other was a 350 HP V8. But one was better. When you see those numbers you are looking at peak torque, and if it is an equal number there, a lower RPM is the better. When you see peak HP, the higher RPM is better.

The cheap engine had a very limited torque curve compared to the deluxe version. IIRC it was an LT1 and it was actually a Mercury Marine engine. But the point is, the ft. lbs. and hp. numbers were very close, but the better engine achieved peak torque at a lower RPM and peak HP at a higher RPM.

So there is a reason why auto manufacturers have not made the drive trains so tall that the engine does 1,000 RPM @ 60 MPH. There is what's called cam overlap and that is why. There is a time when both intake and exhaust valves are both open on each cylinder. The efficiency of doing it this way is dependent on velocity and the volumetric efficiency of the engine. If the gases move fast enough through the system, what seems to be inefficient is not.

The internal combustion engine, even with all of the refinements, is still quite inefficient.

We need something better that will perfom adequately. Somebody invent that and you might just be able to buy and sell these oil men who have a stranglehold on the world.

Any takers ?

T

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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/14/2008 8:06:49 PM   
winterlight


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drive out here 55 in good old Cali-fornia and oh man! I feel like an old lady in a Cadillac (which i don't have). I try and go 65 the speed limit. I am for lowering it to save gas and SAVE LIVES.

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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/14/2008 11:39:07 PM   
MasterKalif


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the answer is "hell no" because I hate driving like an old lady and hate it when people drive 55 in the fast lane...the fast lane is for those of us on the fast lane....lol...

I think the onnly time I would drive 55 and in the fast lane was if I was being given head when driving........


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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/14/2008 11:41:35 PM   
Leatherist


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What?????And take longer?
 
That would mean a sacrifice-it's impossible!!!!!!

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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/14/2008 11:57:30 PM   
Bethnai


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Let me read through these and think about it a bit and I'll get back to you.

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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/15/2008 12:33:00 AM   
azropedntied


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If i drove 55 i would get run over by the other drivers . Flow of traffic on freeways dictate speed .If you drive 55 in a 75 or 65 limit zone you would see terrorists  ,the road rage ones try'n to get by you .

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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/15/2008 6:46:06 AM   
SirRober


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Termyn8or What you read and what you have comprehended in my post were 2 different things.

1. if you  are in the highest tranny gear.
2. lowest rpm level
3. speed limit

means you save gas.          

So all of the engine CRAP you posted is just that CRAP .......to the average car owner.    


For everyone else. YES you to (Termyn8or)....
if you are at 55 and rpm's at 5000
or 55 and rpm's at 1500     the lower the rpm at 55 the more gas you save.

< Message edited by SirRober -- 5/15/2008 6:58:51 AM >

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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/15/2008 8:25:08 AM   
Phoenix2raven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirRober

Termyn8or What you read and what you have comprehended in my post were 2 different things.

1. if you  are in the highest tranny gear.
2. lowest rpm level
3. speed limit

means you save gas.          

So all of the engine CRAP you posted is just that CRAP .......to the average car owner.    


For everyone else. YES you to (Termyn8or)....
if you are at 55 and rpm's at 5000
or 55 and rpm's at 1500     the lower the rpm at 55 the more gas you save.
I can add to this by saying it's absolutely true. After driving a 18 wheeler for years I can average 6.8 and sometimes 7 mpg if I keep my rpm's down. The sad truth is most drivers don't know unless you are going long distance going 65mph or over doesn't save that much time. It is a Illusion that you are saving allot of time. Most drivers commute 20 miles or less. So the simple truth is how important is 10 min or less so you can get home to watch your favorite sitcom make dinner or spank your submissive. Is it worth your life or someone else's? Steps down from soap box grumbling gd 4 wheelers.


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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/15/2008 9:28:25 AM   
Termyn8or


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Maybe it's crap to most people but it is true. YOu might notice that I know a few things about cars. Thing is I probably wenyt into too much detail.

I can't argue against the RPM issues, if allother things are equal, but some cars are optimized differently. Go drive a Buick Roadmaster at 1500 RPM, but whe you got a little Honda with a sub 2 liter engine, things change. Those little boxes are pushed.

I have to agree that lower RPMs is good if all other things are equal. Moving those pistons back and forth takes ernergy, of that there is no doubt. But some engines are optimized for low end torque, and other are not, to say the least.

I have been in and driven cars and small pickup trucks at like 70 MPH and was looking for another gear. I would even say "Damn, this thing needs another gear".

So I actually did not disagree, I just pointed out that in some vehicles, the usual common sense does not apply. In other words, we would love to be able to go 100MPH at idle, but that is not going to happen.

Conversely I could make a lawnmower engine pull a 100 ton load up a 45 degree grade with the right gears. In fact if you compare the ratios in the manual transmissions in older American cars to the ratios in alot of the small engine foreign jobs, you see that they can do alot with gears.

When they do that the cam timing and duration is optimized for higher RPMs, and my point is that this can negate any positive effect of the lower RPMs.

The fact is that most cars run pretty dirty, especially at idle or thereabouts. The catalytic converter cleans it up. Take it off your car and see how the exhaust smells at idle. You won't be pleased.

I remember the dayus before the catalytic converter and exhaust from a good running car smells a certain way. If my 73 Duece smelled like my 92 truck without a cat, I would be looking to find out why. (the cat got stolen off the truck and since it passed and is good for two years, the cat will be replaced when it has to be tested again).

Tell you something folks, if you ever meet a mechanic to fix a car that runs, but for example won't pass emissions or has no power, something like that, if he goes to the tailpipe and checks out the exhaust, keep him around, he knows what he is doing.

LOL, it's almost like a doctor wanting a stool sample.

Anyway, gotta run. I admit that in most cases lower RPM is better, but if you drive one of these little shitcans (that's what we call them, sorry) that does not always apply.

I have to go to work, and I have something else to post, so, so much for this at the moment.

T

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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/15/2008 9:33:23 AM   
Leatherist


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The biggest issue is that most internal combustion only burns part of the fuel-the rest is wasted-becoming pollution. A more efficient motive force is needed. Prefferably one with a nuetral exhaust.

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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/15/2008 1:34:45 PM   
azropedntied


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HEY i kept it under 55  ... then i had to shift into third gear ..i tried .

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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/15/2008 2:20:40 PM   
SirRober


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Phoenix2raven   Hey I am going to school in a month or so to drive for england. what do you think about them??

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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/15/2008 2:25:10 PM   
Evility


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Yes, I would drive 55mph if all of the things on your list would come to pass or even 5 out of the 6.

Realistically only one of them would occur if we all drove 55 mph and I would not drive 55mph just for that one benefit because it's not a terribly big deal as it is with all of us driving 70mph.





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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/15/2008 2:35:30 PM   
kinkbound


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quote:

Would you drive 55 MPH if ?


Probably not. I'm too damned impatient to arrive at my destinations. But I have lowered my cruise-control settings from 14MPH over the posted limit to 9MPH over the limit.

My chevy goes 74MPH on level ground at about 2250RPMs, and gets 29MPG in moderate weather with the A/C off and the windows rolled up.

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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/15/2008 6:19:29 PM   
Bethnai


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I did go to the first link and looked at the 1996 EPA memo. This is about emissions and in that memo it is unclear the impact of older vehicles, vehicles other than passenger cars and uncertain of the possibility to even collect data correctly. However, none of this pertains to the original post.
I went to the EPA website to look for up to date data. If it is there, I did not find it.
The second link was to an article and the link in the article led me right back to the first link.
The third one, goes over how driving at 55mph saves gas. I’ll buy it. I never said it would not.
The fourth one is another EPA link on how to get better gas mileage. There it does state that I would save 10-15% in fuel costs.
Now somewhere, I did come across that it would reduce a billion spent on oil imports. I didn’t think to get the link and cannot remember where I came across it. However, I suspect that it would largely depend on the model and year the car was built and all the 99 other factors that play with the EPA memo.
My next thing was to go in search of reduction of fatalities related to this, the absolutely newest information is here
http://www.dot.gov/affairs/dot6908.htm Its already decreased. All other attempts to look at statistical online information that I found were up to 1995. I found them here http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov Accidents primarily fall in a certain age group and alcohol.
I’m idealistic. However, I have looked high and low and I cannot find anything to support what your saying. I cannot find any information that says driving 55 eliminated anything besides emissions starting in the 1970’s or on anything but how to save money on gas. I want to. I really do want to. The only thing I am seeing is a correlation between ice cream and homicides.

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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/15/2008 6:21:45 PM   
snappykappy


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isnt that a song cant drive 55

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RE: Would you drive 55 MPH if ? - 5/15/2008 6:43:11 PM   
SummerWind


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I would.............I  would just budget extra time to get to the marina to take out my boat....

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