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if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 7:40:30 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		This is a question, not a statement!

"If it isnt SSC, its not BDSM"

Comments and observations welcomed - it does have a serious point to it in that I'm putting together a consultation paper for the justice system here in UK. All comments and observations used will be strictly non-attributable to screen name or actual name (where I know it!)

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.
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RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 7:43:35 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline 		There's quite a bit in The Loving Dominant about how consent distinguishes us from "them."  If you don't have a copy available, email me an standard email address and I'll send you a Word copy.  I don't usually do this, but you have a praiseworthy goal.

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www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 7:44:25 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		As I just wrote in another post...SSC is subjective. What I view as SSC may not be what you view as SSC.

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Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 7:47:01 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		it's some vanilla head of nut job committing a felony crime?  Is that the answer to your trick question here?

(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 7:47:16 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		"If it's not consensual, it's not BDSM," seems like a fair statement.  Gloryholing, alcohol enemas, etc., demonstrate that consensual erotic practices do not have to be safe or sane.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 7:48:44 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Two SSC posting in one morning.  My my my, this is going to lead into some debates.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 7:54:11 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

"If it's not consensual, it's not BDSM," seems like a fair statement.  Gloryholing, alcohol enemas, etc., demonstrate that consensual erotic practices do not have to be safe or sane.


QFE.  The whole SSC thing is a modern contrivance meant to calm the frightened. 

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RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 7:55:24 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Thanks for the responses so far - and no, its not a trick question!

Safe and Sane - these are the variables as I see them, and rely on personal judgements

Consent - this is a fixed aspect as I see it; there cannot be partial consent - it must be full consent for it to be consent at all, and it must be informed consent (ie the safety and sanity of the activity must be consented to, requiring full knowledge of the activity beforehand)?

JW - thanks! I might just do that - anything to make life easier. The paper is to do with this "violent porn" thing here in UK, and what I want to achieve is to demonstrate that there is a difference between
a) abuse
b) BDSM
c) the sexual predators who lurk within BDSM as a means of finding victims; the same people likely to fall foul of the law on violent porn images

Thereby directing police attention away from people who are in consensual relationships/ participate in consensual activities and towards a focus on those who are a problem for us and for the law.

E



_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
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RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 7:55:37 AM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		In all technicality BDSM just means Bondage, Domination, Sadism and Masochism, right? SSC isn't in there anywhere. BDSM is just a bunch of terms fitted together. How you practice those things defines if you are just kinky, or if you are a criminal. Even if it's not consentual, it's still BDSM.
If I don't wear a seatbelt, am I still driving a car? Sure, but I'm breaking the law while doing it.

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RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 8:00:07 AM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

"If it isnt SSC, its not BDSM"


I can't agree.  As already touched on by another, each portion of "SSC" is subjective... taken all together they are Highly subjective.

And frankly, MUCH falls under BDSM that is not safe or sane by the majority's standards... or even many of those involved in BDSM.

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Relationships come and go, but plastination is forever.

I generally use fast-reply. If directing my post at someone specific I will indicate so.

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(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 8:03:27 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		What we choose to do behind closed doors is often politically incorrect. As well as illegal in the strictest sense of a lot of laws-which is why it goes under the radar.

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RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 8:05:03 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
"If it's not consensual, it's not BDSM," seems like a fair statement.

I tend to think that covers things pretty good.  In terms of what is safe or sane, those are relative words and are rather subjective concepts.



(in reply to RedMagic1)
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RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 8:05:16 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds

In all technicality BDSM just means Bondage, Domination, Sadism and Masochism, right? SSC isn't in there anywhere. BDSM is just a bunch of terms fitted together. How you practice those things defines if you are just kinky, or if you are a criminal. Even if it's not consentual, it's still BDSM.
If I don't wear a seatbelt, am I still driving a car? Sure, but I'm breaking the law while doing it.


I agree.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 8:05:24 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Prolific - this is the fine line I have to walk with this one; almost everything done consensually within BDSM is breaking the law in one way or another, regardless of how safe or sane (or not) it is.

But what we want to avoid is having the police just come round up those of us who have made our tastes public (here, for instance). Its a damage control exercise, if you will. And there will be immense damage to anyone rounded up, regardless of charges, by way of publicity and even just the neighbours seeing you and your PC taken away - what sort of people does that happen to? (begins with a P)

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to RumpusParable)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 8:05:54 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		I even have to disagree about the concent part.  Technically I don't give concent, informed or otherwise with most activities.  But then I have trust in my partner that he's not going to do anything to terribly crazy.

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Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to RumpusParable)
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RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 8:07:05 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds
Even if it's not consentual, it's still BDSM.


I'll disagree on this point.  If there is no consent, it's assault.

Cali


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AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)
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RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 8:07:31 AM   
SmokingGun82


Posts: 575
Joined: 6/19/2004
Status: offline 		I'd say consensual should be a factor... but I've always preferred RACK to SSC. Safe and sane can get so... boring. By my definition, at least.

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It frightens me, the awful truth of how sweet life can be.
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Proper capitalization is the difference between "I had to help my Uncle Jack off a horse" and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse."

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RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 8:09:38 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Prolific - this is the fine line I have to walk with this one; almost everything done consensually within BDSM is breaking the law in one way or another, regardless of how safe or sane (or not) it is.

But what we want to avoid is having the police just come round up those of us who have made our tastes public (here, for instance). Its a damage control exercise, if you will. And there will be immense damage to anyone rounded up, regardless of charges, by way of publicity and even just the neighbours seeing you and your PC taken away - what sort of people does that happen to? (begins with a P)

E


I am not sure what the laws are there LadyE but I do know that here, you can not LEGALLY consent to many of the things we do to each other. So the consent issue in the eyes of the law is often a moot point.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 8:11:14 AM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds

In all technicality BDSM just means Bondage, Domination, Sadism and Masochism, right? SSC isn't in there anywhere. BDSM is just a bunch of terms fitted together. How you practice those things defines if you are just kinky, or if you are a criminal. Even if it's not consentual, it's still BDSM.
If I don't wear a seatbelt, am I still driving a car? Sure, but I'm breaking the law while doing it.


Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!  Thank goodness there are those who can still call a spade a spade and not water it down or get it all jumbled up with a whole lot of extraneous additives that are not part of the original product.  Call me a purist but, it's refreshing to see that the basis of BD/SM hasn't been completely lost in this 'nouveau' BD/SM culture.
 
joy
Owned servant of Master David

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)
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RE: if it isnt SSC, its not BDSM - 5/15/2008 8:11:50 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RumpusParable

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

"If it isnt SSC, its not BDSM"


I can't agree.  As already touched on by another, each portion of "SSC" is subjective... taken all together they are Highly subjective.

And frankly, MUCH falls under BDSM that is not safe or sane by the majority's standards... or even many of those involved in BDSM.


But surely you agree that consent is either consent or not?

But you raise valuable points - some things are indeed dangerous by any standard, yet this new law does not forbid them (since theyre already forbidden) - its about possession of images of those things.

There is for instance, consensual breathplay; the law sees no difference between consensual and non-consensual - its attempted murder regardless. The consent given does not make it any safer nor less criminal.

But there is a difference between such activities when performed by normally sane balanced people, and when performed by sexual predators who insinuate themselves into BDSM relationships for reasons other than mutual benefit.

And that really makes this difficult to brief on, which is why I'm asking here.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to RumpusParable)
Profile   Post #: 20
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