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RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/20/2008 3:25:30 PM   
ThundersCry


Posts: 892
Status: offline 		Screw the clippers...Give me the straight...edge..
 
Wait...thats the name of a book ain`t...it..

(in reply to Madame4a)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/20/2008 4:14:10 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline

ready when you are...

_____________________________

You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

(in reply to ThundersCry)
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RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/20/2008 6:13:34 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		I think it really depends on the person. I'd get REALLY pissed if someone said they wanted me to grow my hair. My hair is a BIG deal for me. I'd also get pissed if someone wanted me to wear dresses and look frilly all the time. Same thing about the weight.

But, for someone else, they may crave these things to be changed. I changed my sub's appearance many years ago. he knew that I preferred clean shaven and so he shaved his rather full beard. That led to a discussion about appearance and how much he was willing for me to change that. I updated him from the 80s. LOL

The first thing he did when we ended the collar was to grow the beard back. *chuckle* We're still good friends.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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(in reply to Madame4a)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/20/2008 6:28:28 PM   
ThundersCry


Posts: 892
Status: offline 		I was afraid of....that <smiles a li`l>
 
However...
 
I don`t THINK...its a HARD limit <grins>

(in reply to Madame4a)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/20/2008 8:36:17 PM   
pixelslave


Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

Hopefully.. I'll answer everything....if I missed something ... tell me..

thanks for the response...

I am no opposed to long hair -- I think its that most of the time I see it in profile pictures.. it looks scruffy (GREAT word LH) ... I don't care for scruffy or unkempt long hair.. and long hair tends to look that way quicker than short...

I don't think its so easy to say.. "do this, this or this or hit the road".. at least that isn't me... and while I know most saw this in terms of someone who is submissive to me, that's not really what I meant... but I guess I'd have no room to say a thing unless they were...

thanks Ms Incontrol..for the compliment *wink*. I did not know your history with yours... who is, by the way... as cute as they come.. so you did good...

and yes, I would be more than willing to assist and support changes.. I think it would be very bad form not to, particularly if I had requested the change.. I'm willing to shop.. and willing to take someone to see my hair guy.. *grin*

and yes.. DesFIP .. I realize it could just be that picture.. but as a friend of mine says... when you put one up for millions to see.. take some time with it... I assume others do.. most of the time.. and yes, my profile says I don't like 'unkempt' ... but you know how well profiles are read around here


Actually, I don't think there's anything wrong at all with what you're speaking of.  It's probably more an issue of how it's approached.  Personally, I LOVE having a Mistress take me to get my hair cut and telling the stylist how SHE wants it cut!   I also enjoy having a woman pick out my clothes, or at least provide guidance/final approval as I enjoy wearing things that she finds pleasing to her. 
 
I also know my strengths and weaknesses.  I view a D/s relationship as something akin to a situation where the Domme manages the resources available to us, delegating tasks and responsibilities according to our different talents or abilities.  I'd hope she'd be able to help me in the areas where I know I have weaknesses and could genuinely use the help to improve myself.  I'm not perfect nor am I too proud to admit that there are things I don't do very well.  There are other areas I excel at that help make up for those.  I'd hope a Domme I'd be in service to would be wise enough to set any ego issues aside and put those to good use for our mutual benefit. 
 
Bottom line, I want to be a better man for the woman I serve as well as for myself.  So making minor changes to please that woman doesn't seem like a major issue to me.  If a making a certain change is a problem for me, I'd hope we'd be able to sit down and discuss it and get to the bottom of why it was important to her and a problem for me.  From there, presumably we'd reach an understanding or compromise of some kind.  In essence, I see being flexibile and having good communication skills as essential parts of being submissive to someone else.  None of the things in your OP are issues that if approached with some tact or as part of a discussion on limits, shouldn't be negotiable and possible for you to work out with someone that interests you.  Anyone you take on is going to have to adjust to you and vice versa.
 
 - pixel


_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to Madame4a)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/20/2008 9:35:15 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear Madame4a, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I am a firm believer that you (in a general sense) will never change a person and their spirit of intent.  Only the person can change themselves and at their own time, own way and own style.  However, I also believe in replacing a bad habit with another.
 
Humans are created out of many habits; from the way we sleep and how we sleep, e.g. covers, pillows, comfort positions, tv on or off.  How we dress--little personal ways of dressing--left or right foot first into the slacks/pants/trousers?  Grooming, eating, driving, work, writing, reading--lots of habits can be found.
 
What an individual, in a Dominant role; is really teach the other person how to treat you.  In many ways you (in a general sense) will change the other person(s) around you.  If they want to please you--they will find a way--with your advice/suggestion and or inspiration.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Madame4a)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/20/2008 9:44:02 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		If someone had a characteristic or feature that they defined themselves by, such as long shiny hair, or a rocker style etc... I would not seek to change it. However if I thought someone could look more presentable and stylish with a better haircut or clothes, yes, I would definately want him to make the change. Especially if I thought it would also change his self image and self esteem in the bargain. I wouldn't ask someone to do something I wouldn't do myself. So right now that I'm being lazy and not visiting the gym, it would be hypocritical of me. However if I were hitting the gym regularly and working on losing weight, well.... sorry, but Mr. Jelly Belly will have to do the same. 

(in reply to SephandElena)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/21/2008 2:35:33 AM   
chezzy71


Posts: 412
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		I am a little disappointed with some of the answers here and i will leave it at that.I refuse to fingerpoint.

(in reply to TNstepsout)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/21/2008 4:25:39 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Im having trouble with lets take this person and ruin their lives and change them into who we want them to be. Then they tell others on here to be who they are and not change for others.

(in reply to SephandElena)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/21/2008 11:15:05 AM   
pixelslave


Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Im having trouble with lets take this person and ruin their lives and change them into who we want them to be. Then they tell others on here to be who they are and not change for others.


Although I can't speak for her, I don't think that's the intent of the OP as it.  As for myself, I desire to become a better man and a better person.  I like to think in terms of life being a process of growth and self-improvement.  There are things I know I could do better at or would genuinely like to improve about myself.  Those are things I'd appreciate the help and support of from the next Woman I serve. 
 
If she saw other things in me that she felt I could use help with, I'd be completely open to hearing about them.  Being the type of person who does his best to be honest with himself, if I saw some validity to what she had to say, I'd see no reason not to accept her guidance in those areas too.  As a submissive, I always have the choice to say "NO" and set a limit or boundary for myself on those things with her.  Alternatively, I can also choose to negotiate a compromise that hopefully is satisfactory for both of us.
 
If I agree to follow someone else's desires to make changes in my life that aren't good for me, then I'm the one "ruining" my life by allowing that person to take charge and guide me to do things that aren't good for me.  I'm the only one who can be responsible for myself, not a Domme that I choose to serve.  I can't blame her for any decisions I make to do what she desires of me.  Remember, it's all presumably consensual.
 
 - pixel


_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/21/2008 11:33:31 AM   
MsIncontrol


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline 		The fact is most men I have come across and most men I see my friends with/married to, whether in the lifestyle or vanilla...resist change.  Sometimes they are cheap, sometimes they are clueless and sometimes it is pure laziness.  (I am mostly talking about cosmetic changes as the OP stated.)  I also think a lot of men (at least those I've dated) who identify as submissive..prefer to have someone tell them what to do.  They usually love it when I tell them to get their haircut if they want to have dinner with me that night...or take them shopping to wear something that will please me.

My one girlfriend had to literally take every pair of underwear her hubby had to the dumpster down the road before he would go and buy new underwear.  His was "fine", even though it was 20 years old, stained and ripped and two sizes too small... but he would rather spend money on something else...like video games!

My husband refused to buy jeans in the proper size...he wanted to continue to wear the 33's he was wearing in high school.  Now, he is a great looking guy...but when you are 45..your body weight shifts and those tight jeans you love and have been wearing for 25 years...aren't just the right look for you and are out of style unless you are in a rock band.  Just as women in their 40's shouldn't be shopping in the juniors dept.  Just because you CAN wear something...doesn't mean you SHOULD.

This is much different than trying to change who a person is.  Trying to change someone's religion or moral values is impossible.  Trying to change a party boy into a family man etc...all very different than the things discussed here.  I don't think anyone was talking about changing a person's core being...just sprucing them up a bit.

Funny that I see MANY Male Dom's put their fem subs on diets, grow their hair, wear make up or specific type of clothes and shoes and I rarely if ever hear them complaining. 

Great topic Madame.

_____________________________

Happiness is only real when shared. - Christopher McCandless

(in reply to pixelslave)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/21/2008 3:10:08 PM   
Steponme73


Posts: 552
Joined: 11/9/2007
Status: offline 		I think there is a difference in "changing him" and "directing him" in the direction you want him to go.  I think most men would take the direction thing without a problem and if the Woman in charge was cagy with her direction he would never notice.

(in reply to SephandElena)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/21/2008 4:27:55 PM   
ThundersCry


Posts: 892
Status: offline 		Hold on =L=
 
THATs asking alot to tell a man he can`t be in 501`s after 40!
 
I enjoyed your input...
 
But....I am keeping the 501`s...
 
Wait! Maybe I shoudl send him MY 33`s...

(in reply to MsIncontrol)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/21/2008 5:48:07 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		I think you did pretty well interpreting...

I really do not believe you can set out to fundamentally change someone... help them to be a better person.. yes, but honestly, if someone I was with resisted that change, I'd back off...

no matter the change, you have to want it.. for it to take... and you have to see the value in it too...

I know you can't change someone and its not wise to set out to do that.. suggest a better haircut, a change in clothing style.. maybe.. maybe not... but I did love the discussion...

< Message edited by Madame4a -- 5/21/2008 5:49:12 PM >

_____________________________

You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

(in reply to pixelslave)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/21/2008 7:37:40 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncontrol
I also think a lot of men (at least those I've dated) who identify as submissive..prefer to have someone tell them what to do.  They usually love it when I tell them to get their haircut if they want to have dinner with me that night...or take them shopping to wear something that will please me.


See, that (and much of what pixel said) makes perfect sense to me... i want to be pleasing, and the easiest way for me to know that i'm doing that is to follow specific directions. Aside from my hair, i don't much care what i look like, and i don't mind expending a bit more effort if i know that it's expected or appreciated.  Far worse to find out after weeks or years that you're "fed up" with the scruffy look... and then it's like, wtf didn't you say something sooner?

...dave
(31 years old and still going to work wearing T-shirts with Internet humor on them... w00t!)

(in reply to MsIncontrol)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/21/2008 11:52:40 PM   
steffie


Posts: 95
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline 		Is changing a person's hairstyle really changing the person?
 
Seems like a pretty small element.  Same with body hair or clothes.  If a sub is not willing to make minor adjustments in their appearance just to see you smile... to quote the recent book, "He's not that into you."

I am trans and have had a Domme tell me up front, she would only get involved with me if i cut my long hair, and lost the women's clothes.  She said she was quite attracted to me as a male.  But not as a female.

For me, that's a bigger issue.  It's not just about the hair.  It's about burying 1/2 of my identity.  Still, believe it or not - i was entranced by this woman, so i did it for her.  My hair was all the way down my back, and i cut it all off, stopped shaving my legs, and went back to dressing like a man.  Naturally she was delighted.  And, interestingly, i found that even with short hair and wearing man's jeans, i could still express my feminine side.  It just came out in different ways.  With her, mostly in service-orientated ways.

People said it above.  You can ask anything.  When you do, you force that other person to make a decison.  And how they respond tells you how seriously they are taking you... if at all.

< Message edited by steffie -- 5/21/2008 11:53:21 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/22/2008 10:09:21 AM   
MsIncontrol


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThundersCry

Hold on =L=
 
THATs asking alot to tell a man he can`t be in 501`s after 40!
 
I enjoyed your input...
 
But....I am keeping the 501`s...
 
Wait! Maybe I shoudl send him MY 33`s...


I am not saying he can't wear jeans....but the 33's needed to get traded in for 34's and in some cases 36's.  Wearing tight pants to the dungeon is one thing, to a rock concert another...but to brunch with your mother...NOT.

My honey has an encasement fetish so I think he just loves the feeling of being hardly able to breath, bend and doesn't mind the waistband digging in to the point of leaving marks for hours....but I refuse to be embarassed when out in public with him.  Basically, 1984 called and they need their jeans back...so off they went!  They will be calling you soon too :-)

_____________________________

Happiness is only real when shared. - Christopher McCandless

(in reply to ThundersCry)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/22/2008 10:44:29 AM   
ThundersCry


Posts: 892
Status: offline 		Well in THAT case ...I have a new number....
 
1 800 BEND OVER!
 
However I agree about not being embarassed out in public...
 
Theres a time and place for everything...
 
Enjoy the long weekend...
 

(in reply to MsIncontrol)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/22/2008 11:50:10 AM   
MsIncontrol


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThundersCry

1 800 BEND OVER!
 


Who gave you my number? 

Enjoy your weekend as well!

_____________________________

Happiness is only real when shared. - Christopher McCandless

(in reply to ThundersCry)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/23/2008 3:09:01 AM   
GoddessTeaze


Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline
I made a few quit smoking, I made another go to the dentist, his breath was so yuck that I never ever kissed him. I made one go to the docter have a checkup, and I make sure that My property is shaved, since My skin is very delicate and will b irritated if it's not nice and soft, and shaved, as well as downstairs,
they know this upfront, and if they dun like it..?

They know where the door is..!



GoddezzT`


_____________________________

~* The only disability in life is a bad attitude. ~Scott Hamilton*~

~*Beauty is not in the face; beauty is a light in the heart. ~Kahlil Gibran*~

(in reply to MsIncontrol)
Profile   Post #: 40
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