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RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 5/23/2008 3:57:31 AM   
malloves69


Posts: 913
Joined: 9/15/2006
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good morning Ms Goddess  my mistress likes me shaved too ..the little head as well as the big head  gotta do what the lady likes ..its not all bad as far as im concerned  the power of the pussy is amazing isnt it ?  hugs mal

(in reply to GoddessTeaze)
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RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 8/4/2008 4:51:04 PM   
bigbABygentleman


Posts: 34
Joined: 7/20/2008
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The only time you can change a man, is if you have him diapers. However you can modify him and make him realize that if he does what is requested, through training, it will be more enjoyable and better for him.

To try and change someone, without their permission is what governments have been trying to do for decades.

Modification through training is quite famous. Pavlov conditioning. Make it enjoyable to change and treat for the result you seek and punish for not.

(in reply to SephandElena)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 8/4/2008 5:03:11 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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I think there is change, and then there is CHANGE. I have it clearly stated in my profile that anyone who is considering servitude in our household -has- to be cleanshaven over the entire body -- The stuff I like to do requires a clean canvas. I figure that if a person isn't ready and willing to do that, xhe won't approach me.

On the other hand, I would never -force- a servant to, say, quit smoking if xhe enjoyed it. If xhe told me xhe wanted or needed to quit, I would certainly reinforce hir own need to stop with as much force as it took to augment hir will, but I would never demand that a servant give up (permanently) some cherished pattern, role, practice, or habit. It's just not my style.

I might ask a servant that I had an excellent relationship and who had indicated a willingness to relocate to start making plans to move to be closer -- but I wouldn't even ask a servant who was at a distance and who hadn't already indicated a willingness to change.

Not all of my reasons are for the servant's benefit. Honestly, it is a somewhat selfish position, I think... for me, it is energetically wasteful to try to force someone to be or do something that is inimical to their nature and which they have no interest in doing. That's why, if a servant decides that xhe wants out of the House, and we've talked about the reasons, etc., I won't stop hir from leaving if xhe's sure. I don't want someone who doesn't want to be there, and I don't feel compelled to waste my valuable energy beating my head on a wall to change a person into something that xhe doesn't want to become.

Calla Firestorm

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to Madame4a)
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RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 8/4/2008 11:00:44 PM   
AllietheKitten


Posts: 115
Joined: 7/10/2006
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When we first met by Boy had loooong hair and a bushy beard. And he only wore torn-up jeans and black tees. I took him shopping, cut his hair, trimmed his beard and now he is ADORABLE (not that he wasn't before...)

Its all in the way you go about it and how much the sub is willing to surrender. I didn't order him to do any of it and would think that I had stepped over the line if I'd done so. Aside from dressing in-scene I really feel that the way he looks is his own personal preference and I fully accepted him as my sub looking the way he looked before. But I also know that in a professional world a boy should look a certain way if he wants to succeed. And also many 20 year olds don't have much sense when it comes to how to dress themselves. Turns out that he really wanted me help.

Plus, I wanted to make all the other Domme's jealous! *big grin*

< Message edited by AllietheKitten -- 8/4/2008 11:01:06 PM >


_____________________________

I don't believe in Destiny
Or the guiding hand of Fate
I don't believe in forever
of love as a mystical state
But I believe there's a ghost of a chance
We can find someone to love and make it last.
~Rush

(in reply to SephandElena)
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RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 8/5/2008 2:01:57 PM   
blackrosegoddess


Posts: 25
Joined: 6/19/2008
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As one who says I can change someone, I do have to say that the person has to be aware of a fault to change.
I will get to know them, and if they are willing I will help them become more than what they are now. If they desire more confidence in the work place, I will work with them and show them how to get it. What to do to seem to be incontrol, even when unsure of the outcome.

To me its all in the way they see themselves. If they are comfortable with who they are, I simply show them things they have never experienced before: Eg: Rough guy in a yoga class, or even in a meditation class.

I don't just work on the physical person, I want to see them expand thier horizons. Try new things, even if it seems silly or odd. Some of the best things in life are the odd or silly.
Plus, if you are unable to laugh at yourself in such circumstances, then you are not able to have fun and enjoy life.


(in reply to SephandElena)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 8/9/2008 9:10:49 PM   
bigbABygentleman


Posts: 34
Joined: 7/20/2008
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Dear Madam,

As a male, I can tell you that change is something that can be done quite effectively. Women have been doing for many years and most men are oblivous to it, until they realize that it creates harmony and a peace in any relationship.

My ex used to say, "I'm training you."

This used to get me so pissed off I could have strangled her, however, I can say without a doubt, "she was training me." To be a better person, to dress for success, to be able to stand tall and throw my shoulders back and go out into the world and compete. Then to come home and treat her like a lady. I didn't see it then, but in retrospect, I do now.

Most men and women would get along better if the men and women realized that communication is more important than any other one thing in their relationships. Without it, the marriage or relationship begins a slow deterioration begins self-destruction and sometimes, usually, most of the times ends in divorce.

Men are powerful in public and women are supposed to be subordinates to their male counterparts in most of the corporate world. But before all you women jump on me, please allow me to explain. Most women know that their male counterparts in most of the same jobs, not all, are paid more money and are generally able to climb higher than their female counterparts, everywhere but in the home and family dynamics. The woman there is the Queen. The man is a visitor every evening and her guest. She usually furnishes the home, decorates, picks the dishes, furniture, appliances etc. The man just smiles and nods for the most part, until they enter the bedroom.

Where HE immediately thinks he has to perform. Has to have a huge penis and be able to maintain an errection, just short of 4 hours, so they don't have to call the local emergency room. When all she wants is a man, to tell her how pretty she is in the morning, with or without make-up. How nice breakfast was, call her at lunch and tell her he loves her and when he walks in the door, make sure she's the most important thing in his life, before he does anything else.

Then when he enters the bedroom, he would have a Queen waiting for him and if they communicated in the bedroom and he was able to listen to her want's and desires, there would no longer be a need for divorces at all IMHO.

Men are motivated and driven by their vocation and successes. Women are driven by their friendships and family. Most men think logical and women want them just to be emotional with them. Be vunerable sometimes, but strong when needed. Masculine to be the man, and soft and gentle and tuned into her needs. Listening honestly to how her day went will go a long ways to make her feel important.

Changing someone, requires the intelligence for that person to realize they're flawed as all men and women are. Women tend to recognize men's flaws sooner than men do their own. Done lovingly and careingly, I think any woman should be able to not change him, but mold him into a better man, father, husband, lover, friend.

just my .02 cents

(in reply to GoddessTeaze)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 8/9/2008 9:18:57 PM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
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Yes, people do and will change in amazing ways to be with someone they care about. 

What people never change is their basic lifestyle. 

If their lifestyle is compatible with mine, I will ask them to change something else about themselves if it's important to Me.

My experience has been that asking them to change their lifestyle is when it goes 'over the line', only because lifestyle choices are usually intertwined with their basic persona and are choices they will eventually return to, anyway.  If it's a lifestyle issue that's bugging you, your time is better spent looking elsewhere.

My mother always used to say: 'chasse le natural, il reviens au gallop'.  

IMHO.

TM

< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 8/9/2008 9:23:16 PM >


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RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 8/9/2008 11:29:42 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
I have no problem asking a potential to shave. I believe that I should leave a boy in a better position from knowing me, than from not. If shaving his facial hair makes him more appealing than I will ask him to do it. Part of my own training is to update his appearance if he is living in the 80's or eeeeeek the 70's. I want him to be the best that he can be for me and I happen to think that I know what is best for me. If him shaving pleases me, then no, I have no problem asking him to do it.

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(in reply to SephandElena)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 8/10/2008 8:54:09 PM   
E2Sweet


Posts: 649
Joined: 7/8/2008
From: TopLeftCornerOf, OH, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

...thoughts on changes?  asking someone to change?  making someone change?...


In my view, the morality of it all boils down to a person's motives and intentions. Trying to teach someone to make that learner's life bigger/better/easier, well I say that's honorable for the most part. Trying to change a partner so you feel better about yourself, or how outsiders view you, that's pretty shitty. Flat out lying to a partner, or not telling them you're trying to change them to improve your social status, increase your self-worth, or to feel less embarrassed of them....well that is deceit, pure and simple. In the case of the latter two, perhaps don't worry so much about the partner and work on "you".

I'm speaking in general terms here. "You" in this case could mean anyone. I'm absolutely not pointing fingers at anyone.

As for me, there are perhaps things I would be willing to change about myself at the request (or dare I say demand - cause that is kinda hot) of a dominant partner. There are also things I would not. I don't see any realistic reason to be denied some say in some areas, since ultimately, I'm the one who has to live with the result, and look in the mirror each morning and be OK with who I see.

...and as far as this subject goes, I have yet to meet the woman who has the ability to change...my mind...



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E2Sweet
"If it doesn't make you smile then chances are you're not doing it right."

(in reply to Madame4a)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 8/11/2008 7:25:48 AM   
SnowRanger


Posts: 503
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Sinsinnati
Status: offline
Hello A/all,

I think the original question was more about "polish" rather than change.

I hope; and, expect that my owner will help me make improvements in the way I look or otherwise present myself.  I will still be me, just amore  presentable me.

I belive that real change is possible.  It is, on the other hand, very difficult.  I heard a wise man (and no, I do not belve that that is contradiction in terms) once say "Until the pain of staying the same exceedes the pain of change, you will not change."  I have observed this at least twice in my life. 

How far is too far?  When the pain of helping someone change exceeds the change of putting up with them the way they are... STOP!

Respectfully,
Mike
SnowRanger

(in reply to Madame4a)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 8/11/2008 7:27:50 AM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline
I think you very much got my meaning...

what a great discussion this has been about changing someone...

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You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

(in reply to SnowRanger)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 8/11/2008 10:16:52 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SnowRanger

Hello A/all,

I think the original question was more about "polish" rather than change.

I hope; and, expect that my owner will help me make improvements in the way I look or otherwise present myself.  I will still be me, just amore  presentable me.

I belive that real change is possible.  It is, on the other hand, very difficult.  I heard a wise man (and no, I do not belve that that is contradiction in terms) once say "Until the pain of staying the same exceedes the pain of change, you will not change."  I have observed this at least twice in my life. 

How far is too far?  When the pain of helping someone change exceeds the change of putting up with them the way they are... STOP!

Respectfully,
Mike
SnowRanger



I absolutely love this line and think it would make a wonderful tagline!  I am going to remember this one! That is so very true!  I used to say that until it is more painful to love someone than to walk away, people will stay in a relationship that isn't good for them.  This is another angle on that and life and it was great to get here and see that this morning!  Thank you Mike!

(in reply to SnowRanger)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 8/11/2008 3:03:05 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL:  Madame4a
How much "molding" is too much?

My answer to this is simple and complex at the same time.  I am willing to mold my wife extensively to make her a better "her".  But I will not make the attempt to change her into someone else.  I'll knock off rough corners, polish up the exterior, maybe even glue up a flaw or two.  But I'm not going to try to make a marble statue out of that really fine piece of mahogany I have.  I guess the art part of it is knowing which is which.

(in reply to Madame4a)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 8/3/2009 2:07:23 PM   
bigbABygentleman


Posts: 34
Joined: 7/20/2008
Status: offline
Thats a great way to look at training. You're not changing anyone, you're polishing a diamond in the rough!

If you put a piece of coal under extreme pressure and heat over time it creates the most beautiful diamond.

Maybe the way to look at instead of change, you're forming a precious and very valuable item (person)

...just my .02 cents

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 8/3/2009 3:50:41 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline
I wish to be improved for the better. If it ever was for the worse then what the hell am I doing?
All of these things (shaving head, letting hair grow out, wardrobe changes or a lack there of, etc) are just physical traits.

Behavioral Modification is of no problem to me either. As long my Domme is happy and I am happy what do I have to complain about?

It would be hot to bark whenever she rings the bell.

*laughs*

(in reply to SephandElena)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Changing someone ... (read inside) - 8/3/2009 6:05:32 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbABygentleman

Thats a great way to look at training. You're not changing anyone, you're polishing a diamond in the rough!

If you put a piece of coal under extreme pressure and heat over time it creates the most beautiful diamond.

Maybe the way to look at instead of change, you're forming a precious and very valuable item (person)

...just my .02 cents

The .02 cents wasn't sufficient a year ago when the thread died off?  It's now only worth about one and a half.

I don't know about anyone else, but a sub who pays so little attention to details is not putting the best foot forward.  Would you serve being so less than observant as well?


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to bigbABygentleman)
Profile   Post #: 56
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