RE: Needing or Wanting to be Needed or Wanted...

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RE: Needing or Wanting to be Needed or Wanted... - 5/22/2008 10:02:56 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

I understand, owned... by using presence/attention/care, I was hoping to imply whatever it is that you need from your dominant. In your case, it appears to be his mastery.

Ah, I understand now, Treasure, thanks. Yes, in my case I need his mastery and therefore I need him because of that. This is different from neediness (although I was once quite needy for him). It just means that if I'm going to function well in life and thrive as the person I want to be, I need him to own and master me, and even more than that, I need to love him and express my love and submission to him the best ways that I can. But I see your point of different people having different needs.

quote:

But has he told you that you are not to need him?

No, in fact he loves that I need him. Perhaps it is because of the way that I need him. He also knows and loves that it is him that I want, too, and with him is where I want to be. The fact that I very much want to be his makes my need for him in order to thrive even sweeter to him. And yes, sometimes I am even "needy", too, although I try not to be so much.

Perhaps because he enjoys and encourages both want and need, that's why there is no conflict for me.

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RE: Needing or Wanting to be Needed or Wanted... - 5/23/2008 8:25:16 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

My point was the conundrum that is set up in a submissive's mind when in one breath she is told that needs will always be provided but wants perhaps withheld... (this places needs firmly in the "reliable-you-can-count-on-'em column" and wants in the "you-never-know column")... then is told that to please her dominant she should not need him but only want him.

So... wants might be withheld.... have we not established that no one including Dominants don't get all thier wants met.

So... what kind of individual manipulates their wants as needs because they are want to get them met.... hardly a person of of integrity if you ask me. If such person claims themself as a submissive then .. the person they are manipulating is the Dominant. I don't consider it a particularly endearing quality for a submissive to misrespresent their wants as needs.

you are also comparing Apples and Oranges.... To have a D/s intimate Dynamic... A submissive Needs to have a Dominant and a Dominant needs to have a Submissive. However... Submissive X will Want Dominant Y to fill this Need... of course... that doesn't mean that Dominant Y will want X. But when they want each other... that Need of having a D/s dynamic is filled with the person they Want!

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Needing or Wanting to be Needed or Wanted... - 5/24/2008 5:04:36 AM

christine1

Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
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wow, this brings up a lot of thoughts for me. right now at this early hour, all i can say is i want and need to be wanted and needed. not in the clingy, needy way...but in a healthy, open, i love and adore the shit out of you way.

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RE: Needing or Wanting to be Needed or Wanted... - 5/24/2008 5:05:34 AM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

So... what kind of individual manipulates their wants as needs because they are want to get them met.... hardly a person of of integrity if you ask me. If such person claims themself as a submissive then .. the person they are manipulating is the Dominant. I don't consider it a particularly endearing quality for a submissive to misrespresent their wants as needs.

I think you're giving far too much credit to people... I'm not sure I've ever met anyone who has the kind of control over themselves necessary to actually change their wants into needs, or needs into wants.

I also think there's been sufficient discussion about defining wants and needs to show that there really isn't any real agreement on definitions for them. What one person may classify as a need, another may consider it a want.

I do understand and agree with your premise that it would be highly questionable for a submissive to misrepresent a want as a need in order for it to be fulfilled. I hadn't really considered that particular angle as I'm not used to dealing with deceptive people and I just don't possess that kind of manipulative mindset. I suppose I'm naive.

At any rate, I was thinking more along the lines of the emotional distress caused by a disparity in understanding. If I were assured by a prospective dominant that my needs would always be provided, but my wants would only be considered... then also told that he didn't wish to be needed by me... I might have some difficultly in processing my feelings.

As I said, I equate being told that needs will always be provided and wants perhaps withheld as placing needs firmly in the "reliable-you-can-count-on-'em column" and wants in the "you-never-know column".

I suppose that I naturally have always considered wants to fall into the unreliable category. I literally grew up hearing "you don't always get what you want" and quite frankly, I was lucky to have my basic needs met. That does tend to create a dubious attitude about vesting any time or effort into wants.

I also explained that the first thought that comes to my mind when I hear someone say that they don't wish to be needed is that they don't wished to be relied upon... they don't want to be responsible... that they wish to be selective about when and if they are available and for what purposes.

By nature, I'm very cautious about taking risks. When it comes to exposing myself in an intimate relationship as a submissive, I'm even more cautious that who I'm submitting to is going to be comfortable dominating and able to do so responsibly.

It isn't that I would be tempted to represent my wants as needs so that I would get what I want. It is more like I would struggle to determine if I could trust this person enough to submit to them. If it's someone I'm otherwise very interested in, there would be an internal battle to decide between taking the risk and protecting myself.

I don't believe that looking out for my best interests until I've submitted to a dominant makes me less of a submissive or just a playing a role.

In the end, it seems like an awful lot of emotional wear and tear for nothing if all the dominant means is that he doesn't want a submissive to be over-emotional and clingy.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

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RE: Needing or Wanting to be Needed or Wanted... - 5/24/2008 8:43:26 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

I think you're giving far too much credit to people... I'm not sure I've ever met anyone who has the kind of control over themselves necessary to actually change their wants into needs, or needs into wants.

I have met a few...I also have met many that even though they don't consciously manipulate the situation. Their character is such that they are self-centred and selfishness. As a result, with actually consciously being aware of their motivations, they positions that everything they want is a need.

quote:

At any rate, I was thinking more along the lines of the emotional distress caused by a disparity in understanding. If I were assured by a prospective dominant that my needs would always be provided, but my wants would only be considered... then also told that he didn't wish to be needed by me... I might have some difficultly in processing my feelings.

Even thou their is no universal definitions of needs and wants ... we do have our personal definitions. I think it is important to not just use the words but understand our defintion of them, particular with regards of communicating in a relationship.

As far as the prospective dominant... Just because he will take care of your needs... doesn't mean he was the only person that could take care of your needs. He didn't want you to need him to take care of your needs... but wanted you to want him to care for your needs. You have other options to fill those needs. he is just an option to fill them an option that you chose not to exercise and maybe to his regret.

quote:

I suppose that I naturally have always considered wants to fall into the unreliable category. I literally grew up hearing "you don't always get what you want" and quite frankly, I was lucky to have my basic needs met. That does tend to create a dubious attitude about vesting any time or effort into wants.

true... but really.. you only Need to eat and drink.... if you Want to live. I suspect you put alot of effort and time into living.

quote:

I also explained that the first thought that comes to my mind when I hear someone say that they don't wish to be needed is that they don't wished to be relied upon... they don't want to be responsible... that they wish to be selective about when and if they are available and for what purposes.

I think that is true of some.. but not all....

quote:

It isn't that I would be tempted to represent my wants as needs so that I would get what I want. It is more like I would struggle to determine if I could trust this person enough to submit to them. If it's someone I'm otherwise very interested in, there would be an internal battle to decide between taking the risk and protecting myself.

so your careful in choosing who you will Want to have meet your Needs. Because.. it is your needs and they must be provided for... putting those Needs in the hands of someone shouldn't be done lightly in my view... but some are reckless and they wonder why their needs are not being met let alone their wants.

quote:

In the end, it seems like an awful lot of emotional wear and tear for nothing if all the dominant means is that he doesn't want a submissive to be over-emotional and clingy.

and wise if the Dominant means that he wants the submissive to be thoughtful and careful of who they choose to want to fill their needs.

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to TreasureKY)

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Post #: 65