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Doms not wanting doormats - 5/20/2008 7:52:41 PM

flyingsolo

Posts: 7
Joined: 4/18/2008
Status: offline

I'm new here, and this is my first post. If this has been discussed elsewhere and I have overlooked it, I apologize.

I have noticed that most Masters are looking for subs/slaves who have a deep desire to serve and please them and who will accept their authority and obey them willingly. At the same time they say they don't want a doormat, they want someone who is smart and can think for themselves. Forgive my naivety, but I don't understand how someone can be smart and think for themselves and yet at the same time accept another's authority and decision making on their behalf.

This may just be one of those things that I either get or I don't, or maybe with time will become more obvious to me, but if someone could help me to understand it I'd be very grateful. Thanks.

Post #: 1

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/20/2008 7:57:22 PM

kinkypuppy2

Posts: 345
Joined: 11/4/2007
Status: offline

"In my opinion"
Most of those who are looking for a doormat do not know for sure what they want or in some cases they are not sure if there is a difference between fantasy and reality.

There are some who do seek a doormat. one who will mindlessly obay and kneel at their masters feet like a lost puppy.

I personally think life would become exceedingly dull.

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(in reply to flyingsolo)

Post #: 2

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/20/2008 8:01:25 PM

Phin

Posts: 1802
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

someone on my messenger list uses the sig line "submission is not a sign of weakness" I want someone that I can speak to that can tell me her desires as well. A Ds relationship is like a vanilla relationship, it is cyclical, all people in the in the relationship benifit in some way. I want soemone that can show that she is getting her needs/desires.

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(in reply to flyingsolo)

Post #: 3

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/20/2008 8:07:04 PM

breatheasone

Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

Hello and welcome....I am a slave to my Master/Daddy.....I also am His partner. I have a quick wit, a strong and thoughtful mind, and a biting sense of humor Daddy helps me keep in check(we call it my "spice"LOL) So I am by all means totally enslaved and submitted....and also fully partner and helpmeet. It probably isn't a "traditional" D/s relationship but its good for Us.

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Post #: 4

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/20/2008 8:07:25 PM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

Most doms kinda think of a doormat as a little vampire. It fastens intself onto your neck and bleeds you of attention until you run dry.

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Post #: 5

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/20/2008 8:14:10 PM

Gwynvyd

Posts: 4949
Status: offline

To me... some one can be very submissive, and serve me well with out ever once losing themself. With out losing that which makes them an intelegent, vibrant person. It is the smart, whole package I look for. I can get a service dog to fetch me things, and cuddle with me if I wanted only blind obiediance.

I want someone with a heart and a soul. Who is not afraid of using thier mind and being themself around me. Just because you have a dom/me does not mean you cease to exist.. who you are does not go away.. With door mats it does. I think this is sad that they feel so badly about themselves that they turn into what they *think* the other person wants. They are so hungry for love and attention they are willing to suppress who they realy are. No one can be happy that way for long. The Dom/me or the sub.

It is why it does not work unless you have two very broken people.

I wish you luck.

Gwyn

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Post #: 6

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/20/2008 8:34:24 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

/jaded cynicism on
Well, unfortunately a lot of dominants really do want doormats...particularly a lot of dominants on this website.

They just can't say that, because thats not what true dominants say.

They say things like "I don't want a doormat.", "I want somebody who is strong and confident.", "Submission is a form of strength", "Submission is a gift", "yadda, yadda, yadda" and all those other rehashed and recycled versions of the D/S Top Twenty Clichés That Will Get You Laid By The Story of O Fanatics. /jaded cynicism off

As far as your question, it seems your struggling with the preconception that independence and smarts are universally valued by everyone and submission and lack of authority are universally devalued. Those are the values society teaches us, particularly in the free spirited and independent United States.

While some people might be looking for a dominant, because of a lack of ability to think for themselves or make their own decisions, it's not always the case. Some people feel a strong desire to serve and devote themselves to another person. Other people get enjoyment and a thrill in the metaphysical feeling of "being controlled".

I can think of a variety of different reasons, but I suggest you post in the Ask a Submissive section and ask for people to share what they get out of their submission. Given my orientation for being in charge of my personal relationships, I can't really explain it any better than I can explain what's it like to be a homosexual.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 5/20/2008 8:40:23 PM >

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Post #: 7

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/20/2008 8:45:04 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: flyingsolo

I have noticed that most Masters are looking for subs/slaves who have a deep desire to serve and please them and who will accept their authority and obey them willingly. At the same time they say they don't want a doormat, they want someone who is smart and can think for themselves. Forgive my naivety, but I don't understand how someone can be smart and think for themselves and yet at the same time accept another's authority and decision making on their behalf.

first - congrats on making your first post... I suspect you might of been lurking for awhile... good to come out and make yourself heard.

second - thank you for asking what I consider a rather important question.

lastly... my answer

As I understand it you are confused on how being submissive to a Dominant can co-exist wth being a smart think for themselves kind of person. You confusion can be related specifically on how you see the D/s dynamic. I would like let go of any definitions or ideas you have on the D/s dynamic as you consider the next few thoughts I share.

The professional race car driver is highly skilled on the race track. Much more so than you average driver and can handle intense speeds and a variety of driving conditions. But, take this person off the race track and put them on our roads. They use alot of same skills that use on our public streets. They also obey the highway and road regulations like all of us. But, just because the obey these regulations, doesn't make them any less skilled on the race track.

In a narrow way... the submissive is like that race driver. The submissive has a world of skills talents abilities etc. The Dominant of the relationship will use some of those skills and some they might not. But.. regardless, the submissive still has all those talents.

However, keep a race car driver off the track to long... their skills will become dulled or less refined. This is why it is very important that submissive finds a compatiable Dominant. It is also why a Dominant should consider carefully what submissive they take in their charge. A person will have things that will cause they to thrive and enhance their life. It is important that a Dominant understands what those things are in a submissive and if he/she has a use for them. It would be better to let the person past than to place such person(trophy) on the shelf.

My answer is rather brief... and their is alot of futher lines of deeper thought one should consider with regards to choosing their Dominant/submissive partner(s). But I hope that what I stated can point you in the right direction and you might consider asking more questions as you take further steps in your journey. Feel free to email me privately or address me here on the boards if you desire to ask any questions.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to flyingsolo)

Post #: 8

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/20/2008 8:47:18 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: flyingsolo

I'm new here, and this is my first post. If this has been discussed elsewhere and I have overlooked it, I apologize.

I have noticed that most Masters are looking for subs/slaves who have a deep desire to serve and please them and who will accept their authority and obey them willingly. At the same time they say they don't want a doormat, they want someone who is smart and can think for themselves. Forgive my naivety, but I don't understand how someone can be smart and think for themselves and yet at the same time accept another's authority and decision making on their behalf.

This may just be one of those things that I either get or I don't, or maybe with time will become more obvious to me, but if someone could help me to understand it I'd be very grateful. Thanks.

Perhaps an analogy will help- does a ship's captain want a crew of stupid useless people for their crew under their command?

Now, remember that doormat is not a bad word, some slaves ARE doormats, at least some of the time, and quite happy to be there- it's not a reflection on their strength, personality or intelligence. It's just who they are and what works for them.

Also remember that many doms claim to want a lot of smarts and independent thinking, but are actually completely incapable of handling any sort of actual competency from another person.

_____________________________

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(in reply to flyingsolo)

Post #: 9

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/20/2008 10:12:58 PM

Nogimmicks

Posts: 38
Joined: 6/15/2006
Status: offline

What a great question. The answer to it is probably different for every relationship represented in this forum. For me, and I will unabashedly say that I do not like "doormats", the answer is that I like people who have thoughts, ideas, opinions and competence, but who choose to accept obedience where I am concerned. Being obedient does not make your opinion any less valuable, it simply means that you choose to subjugate it to another person's. It isn't any different from running a business. As the owner, I have final authority over everything, but I like to hire employees who are intelligent, competent and self motivated. Then, I simply direct their talents in such a way that everybody makes money. I honestly see no inconsistency in it. My lass is far from being a doormat, but she is very obedient.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 10

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/20/2008 10:17:48 PM

FangsNfeet

Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline

In a mundane and work environment, my sub is in charge of many things. She makes critical decissions and gives valued oppinions on a daily basis that cost and save her company five to six figure estimates. When she comes home, she's relieved to see someone else taking charge and is happy to serve. My sub is feels relaxed to go into a serving state of mind after having to be athoritative to idiots all day.

Does this make sense to you?

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(in reply to flyingsolo)

Post #: 11

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/20/2008 11:34:05 PM

SephandElena

Posts: 52
Joined: 4/7/2008
Status: offline

As far as I'm concerned, from what I've seen thus far in my life, the biggest difference between a submissive and a doormat is that the submissive will know when a command is dangerous and be able to hold their own when it is needed.

D/s need a hell of a lot of trust within the relationship. If the sub can not trust the Dom/me or vice versa, then both parties could find themselves in over their heads quite quickly.

However, the doormat will trust the Dom/me they are with (and hopefully only that Dom/me), straight away without any signs that the trust is not misplaced. He/She could command that the other walk into the middle of the train track and lie down, and the doormat would obey unthinkingly and lie there until told s/he could get up again. The submissive who is not a doormat, would probably need a lot more signs that the Dom/me could be trusted not to harm them or allow harm to come to them first.

There is nothing wrong with being a doormat, but it is always to be hoped that they meet up with the right Dominant straight away so they never need to worry about that trust being misplaced. They are far more likely to be hurt physically or psychologically when the truth comes out otherwise.

The other part of the question.

"Forgive my naivety, but I don't understand how someone can be smart and think for themselves and yet at the same time accept another's authority and decision making on their behalf."

This, in itself, is the gift of submission. My girl is intelligent to say the least, extremely opinionated on things that matter to her (most of the world then), and yet, is prepared to offer me all of that and then some, not because I demand it, or because I told her to, but because she Wants to. There are moments in our life when we might banter, or even argue about something, but if it goes to far, she knows I'm in charge, and she is happy to allow that simply because she trusts me. That in itself is the most wonderful feeling I've ever known.

Seph aka Reb.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 12

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/21/2008 3:50:08 AM

Dnomyar

Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline

I think it all comes down to if you want to micro manage a person.

(in reply to SephandElena)

Post #: 13

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/21/2008 3:56:11 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

jaded cynicism on
Well, unfortunately a lot of dominants really do want doormats...particularly a lot of dominants on this website.

They just can't say that, because thats not what true dominants say.

They say things like "I don't want a doormat.", "I want somebody who is strong and confident.", "Submission is a form of strength", "Submission is a gift", "yadda, yadda, yadda" and all those other rehashed and recycled versions of the D/S Top Twenty Clichés That Will Get You Laid By The Story of O Fanatics. /jaded cynicism off

As far as your question, it seems your struggling with the preconception that independence and smarts are universally valued by everyone and submissio

n and lack of authority are universally devalued. Those are the values society teaches us, particularly in the free spirited and independent United States.

While some people might be looking for a dominant, because of a lack of ability to think for themselves or make their own decisions, it's not always the case. Some people feel a strong desire to serve and devote themselves to another person. Other people get enjoyment and a thrill in the metaphysical feeling of "being controlled".

I can think of a variety of different reasons, but I suggest you post in the Ask a Submissive section and ask for people to share what they get out of their submission. Given my orientation for being in charge of my personal relationships, I can't really explain it any better than I can explain what's it like to be a homosexual.

MR

An excellent analysis.

CP

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 14

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/21/2008 5:08:27 AM

exgen

Posts: 5
Joined: 5/9/2008
From: Arizona
Status: offline

Unfortunately, for the Dominants who wish to have a doormat for a slave/submissive, it really does come down to whether or not you want to micromanage a person. I would -hate- having a mindless slave/submissive, if only for the fact that then each and every day would become a bore.

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 15

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/21/2008 5:49:35 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

In order to accept another's lead without mindless obedience requires that the sub choose someone worthwhile as a dominant. He's managed groups of over 100 people, he's proved his capabilities over and over. He doesn't just dream something up while wanking and say "do it". He's worth following because he's smart, patient and thinks things over to find and address any downside prior to giving an order. And the no doormat bit comes in because I am supposed to tell him when I think he's fucking up.

In my relationship, he's the CEO and I'm the executive assistant. I don't know if you've ever known an executive assistant to a CEO. They aren't secretaries. They are incredibly capable and knowledgable people. But they don't want the responsibility of being the hatchet man when necessary. They don't want to be the one who presses the red button or whose head will roll if things don't work out as expected. Not wanting to be that doesn't translate into being a stupid robot, it just means their strength lies in other areas.

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Post #: 16

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/21/2008 6:59:47 AM

lronitulstahp

Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

/jaded cynicism on
Well, unfortunately a lot of dominants really do want doormats...particularly a lot of dominants on this website.

They just can't say that, because thats not what true dominants say.

They say things like "I don't want a doormat.", "I want somebody who is strong and confident.", "Submission is a form of strength", "Submission is a gift", "yadda, yadda, yadda" and all those other rehashed and recycled versions of the D/S Top Twenty Clichés That Will Get You Laid By The Story of O Fanatics. /jaded cynicism off

As far as your question, it seems your struggling with the preconception that independence and smarts are universally valued by everyone and submission and lack of authority are universally devalued. Those are the values society teaches us, particularly in the free spirited and independent United States.

While some people might be looking for a dominant, because of a lack of ability to think for themselves or make their own decisions, it's not always the case. Some people feel a strong desire to serve and devote themselves to another person. Other people get enjoyment and a thrill in the metaphysical feeling of "being controlled".

I can think of a variety of different reasons, but I suggest you post in the Ask a Submissive section and ask for people to share what they get out of their submission. Given my orientation for being in charge of my personal relationships, I can't really explain it any better than I can explain what's it like to be a homosexual.

Perhaps you'd be so kind as to tell me where one gets the switch which turns jaded cynicism on and off. True Value perhaps...definately NOT Home Depot... i could definately use one. Please don't tell me the internet...that's where i got a lot of my jaded cynicism in the first place!

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 17

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/21/2008 7:20:13 AM

Madame4a

Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline

its kind of the crux of power exchange for me... if you're a doormat, that means to me you have no personal power -- and therefore, nothing to exchange with me...

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Post #: 18

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/21/2008 7:45:53 AM

wandersalone

Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline

Welcome to the forums Flyingsolo.

Being submissive doesn't mean that you ae required to check your brain in at the door. It may mean that I willingly cede some or all control of my life to another person however this would only be done in my case if I felt that he and I shared similar values and goals not only relating to D/s but in all aspects of our lives together including financial, work wise and personally. Once I had given ov r my control to him I would still want to be able to ask questions about decisions he had made or requests/orders he had given. I would still obey them unless they were a hard limit however I would ask for some understanding about his thought proocesses I guess. If he made a decision and I thought there may be another way of approaching it I would let him know I had another idea and then would wait form him to make the final choice. For me being submissive in a relationship requires a lot of brain power as my natural instinct is to question everything and to also be quite smart-alecky, so I may hear a request or command and then bite back my initial 'do it yourself' or 'why should I' response, I then think about what it is about the relationship and submitting to this person that I value and then I say yes....all of this done in a blink of an eye.

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Post #: 19

RE: Doms not wanting doormats - 5/21/2008 7:54:06 AM

antipode

Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
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I can be brief: doormats don't have brains. It's all in the mind...

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Post #: 20

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