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Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 8:09:26 AM

Lockit

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I found this rather interesting. What do you all think?

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=4903138&page=1

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 8:16:43 AM

camille65

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I can tell you one thing, I absolutely resent the fact that I end up helping pay for medical care directed towards illegal immigrants but only the illegal ones.The resentment I hold for the legal ones is the same resentment I feel for all of those that get medical assistance while I can't seem to get help. So that bit is an equal opportunity unhappiness heh. As to forcing legal immigrants out, sending them back to their country of origin for treatment? Um not so much. IMO the majority come from places that don't have great medical care, they are legal here and with that should come the certainty that they stay here and not be booted for being sick. There is more in my head but I'm tired and will chime in later if this thread continues.

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 8:37:40 AM

slaveboyforyou

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It depends on the circumstances. I don't want illegals taking advantage of us, but I don't see the need to throw empathy and compassion out the window. The woman they mention from Honduras waking up from a coma to find out she is being deported is just ridiculous. We don't need to do things like that. It would be comparable to me seeing a guy get hit by a car, than refusing to call 911 if he didn't have a green card.

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 8:49:27 AM

greyarcher315

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I wouldn't want anyone who is here leagaly to be sent home, that is wrong, however, when it comes to illegals I have to say they should be deported. If they have an immediate life threatening medical need, then by all means take care of that. But for anything else they need to be deported. Legal immigrants are fine, but the ones that break into my country, even with the best of intentions, need to have a consequence for thier actions, and the best one is usually being booted out. Take care of thier immediate needs, but send them back to let their own country take care of them long term.

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 8:52:12 AM

Lockit

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Actually the woman this focused on was working legally in the states. Maybe I shouldn't have put the illegal word in there. I just thought it interesting that AZ has some sort of law that required them to send people back to their home country with a cost up to $100,000. dollars. Who pays for that? And why are hopsitals required to do what the real agencies that should be doing this, should do? Then they are trying to send an American born baby back to its parents birth country. Something is seriously wrong here... but then what is new?

There are a lot of aspects to all of this, I find upsetting, but then that has been discussed all over this board.

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 8:53:44 AM

hizgeorgiapeach

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If someone is in my country Illegally, they have no rights at all except the right to ONE free ride back to wherever the fuck they came from. No free medical, no help on Any level. Just a swift kick in the ass on the way back across our borders in the direction they came from.

Why do I feel that way? Because they are CRIMINALS, period. You heard me, Criminals. They did not even come into the country Legally - they BROKE THE LAW TO COME HERE. If they're willing to break the law to get here, they rather Blatantly have no respect for the law, and therefore cannot be trusted not to ignore every Other law when the whim hits them to do so.

Do I ever break the law, to therefore be potentially seen as a hypocrit? Yes - I do - I routinely ignore things such as seat belt laws and state mandated insurance coverage as a form of civil disobedience (I consider them to be a farce cooked up by the insurance company lobbyists as a means to make more money), and like every other driver on the roads I've been known on more than one occassion to speed. Do I see that as significantly different than ignoring and breaking the law simply to be here? You bet I do. I was born here - into a family that has been on this soil since the early 1700s, prior to this even being a country. They were born somewhere else, and don't even respect us enough to come here through the laws that are on an Established Country's books concerning immigration and naturalization. You can bet your ass they would demand that we go back where we came from if the situation were reversed, and considering the state of jails and 'justice' in many of the countries who have the highest numbers of illegals here in the US - you can also bet that you'd be in a lot worse condition when deported than they will be from here!

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 9:00:21 AM

slaveboyforyou

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I know Lockit, I saw that she was legal here. I was just speaking in general terms about illegal immigrants. Legal immigrants and residents shouldn't be deported under any circumstances. I don't want our government forcing hospitals to boot out a dying illegal immigrant either. We are better than that as a people, and we shouldn't take our laws to the extreme. As to who pays for it, we all do. The hospital passes along the costs associated with that to their patients, which insurance companies and/or the government pay for. The insurance companies and our government pass that cost along to all of us.

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 5/22/2008 9:02:55 AM >

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 9:06:19 AM

hizgeorgiapeach

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
Then they are trying to send an American born baby back to its parents birth country. Something is seriously wrong here... but then what is new?

This wasn't posted yet when I started writing my original responce to this post - but I want to address this specifically. (and didn't feel like going back and doing an edit on the original lol)

The pregnant women who come here illegally so that their child will be a "born american citizen" are the ones that piss me off the Most, in the long run. They break the law to get here, then try to Use their child as a TOOL to Stay here. THAT is wrong on major levels.

Wanting their child to be born here, to have an opportunity at a life better than they feel that child could have in their country of origin - all well and good. Doesn't change the fact that They Broke The Law To Be Here. Should the consequences of that be a pat on the head and a smile while we give them free medical care, subsidized housing, a free education, and help finding a job? No - that's rewarding criminal behavior! It's Encouraging Others to criminal behavior of a similar nature. It's encouraging both them and others to do something that (to me) is the least ethical thing a Parent can do - to use their child as a tool for their own gain and benefit.

They want the kid raised here - fine - the kid can stay, but mommy has to go back where she gotdamn well came from - there are plenty of people out there who want Infants to adopt and raise. And ya know what - if the Child having a better life is what is Truely Motivating, they'll jump at that option. If their OWN benefit and welfare are what motivates them, they'll screech about it!

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 9:07:57 AM

philosophy

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FR

...one of the big problems is that it seems that whenever US citizens bring up an issue surrounding legal immigration, those with an axe to grind swiftly switch it to a debate around illegal imigration.
This is no different to the dynamic noted on another thread, that whenever homosexuality is brought up those with an axe to grind bring up child molestors.
This, it seems to me, is a sort of unconscious bigotry.
Lockit, i am sorry to say you bought into this when you titled the thread "illegal immigrants..." etc, when its clearly not just about that.

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 9:07:57 AM

Alumbrado

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quote:

In one recent case, a sick baby who is a U.S. citizen born to an illegal immigrant was being transferred by helicopter to a waiting air ambulance for a flight to a hospital in Mexico when Tucson police intervened and brought the child back to the hospital.
The forcible removals are the result of federal and state law mandating that only U.S. citizens and legal residents are eligible for Medicaid.

Clearly a slippery slope toward deporting any US citizen who can't jump through bureaucratic hoops to prove that they are the 'right kind of citizen' and entitled to stay here.

If your parents don't have papers, out you go.

How many of you have your great great great great grandparents papers?

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 9:12:02 AM

AMaster

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Illegal immigrants- they are called that for a reason, they are criminals. I can understand why someone wants to come here for a better live, but I have no sympathy for anyone who break the law. More to the point natural born Americans and those who are here legally can not afford the health care they need, why should it be given for free to those who do not have a right to live in this country??

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 9:12:47 AM

Lockit

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I agree with all of this. I wish to be humane, but when people take advantage, the only humane thing in my mind is to teach them a lesson in being a decent person. A decent person doesn't break laws to enter a country and take advantage of the people of that country. I feel, right or wrong, that if the parents are illegal, the baby born here is illegal. Change that law and a whole lot less will be forced upon the American people. That one little loop hole opens a lot of doors and causes a lot of conflict. Whether that could be changed or not, I have no clue.

I think I would like to stick with stablize and deport as a general rule. But why not just fix the problem rather than deal with all the in's and out's of it all? Also... let's let the agencies that should be watching and taking care of our border to the service of deporting people, not a hospital.

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 9:13:00 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

Do I ever break the law, to therefore be potentially seen as a hypocrit? Yes - I do - ...................................... Do I see that as significantly different than ignoring and breaking the law simply to be here? You bet I do. I was born here - into a family that has been on this soil since the early 1700s, prior to this even being a country.

...so let me get this straight......you are suggesting that illegal immigrants ought to be treated first and foemost as criminals. Ok, i can see that.....after all, we live in a culture that governs itself by the rule of law. However then you go on to suggest that just because your family immigrated to the US a few hundred years back then your breaking the law is less important. Is that what you mean? So, by that logic, if a native american breaks the law then they ought to get an even bigger pass than you....after all, they were here before you.....

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 9:22:02 AM

Lockit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

FR

...one of the big problems is that it seems that whenever US citizens bring up an issue surrounding legal immigration, those with an axe to grind swiftly switch it to a debate around illegal imigration.
This is no different to the dynamic noted on another thread, that whenever homosexuality is brought up those with an axe to grind bring up child molestors.
This, it seems to me, is a sort of unconscious bigotry.
Lockit, i am sorry to say you bought into this when you titled the thread "illegal immigrants..." etc, when its clearly not just about that.

About as far as I will go in addressing this, is that I have no ax to grind. I was more commenting on the hospital having to do something that someone else should be doing. Wondered what others thought. Now, I do have some opinions and that is far different than an ax to grind. Do you know where I live? Do you know the nationality of one of my children? Do you know what I have done to assist. I do believe there is much wrong with illegal's entering, but I don't blame them for doing so, we tend to allow it. Do I think it wrong, yes... but again... we allow it.

So take your general rule about why someone would start a thread like this and rethink it because not everyone is motivated in the same way. I go for and against... wishy washy? Maybe... but I do struggle with my heart of humane and understanding and what is best for the country. That isn't an ax to grind... and if you think it is... would you like to meet my son J and my neighbors who I love dearly even if they are illegally here? My problem is with my country who is giving this situation a few double standards.

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 9:22:41 AM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I agree with all of this. I wish to be humane, but when people take advantage, the only humane thing in my mind is to teach them a lesson in being a decent person. A decent person doesn't break laws to enter a country and take advantage of the people of that country. I feel, right or wrong, that if the parents are illegal, the baby born here is illegal. Change that law and a whole lot less will be forced upon the American people. That one little loop hole opens a lot of doors and causes a lot of conflict. Whether that could be changed or not, I have no clue.

I think I would like to stick with stablize and deport as a general rule. But why not just fix the problem rather than deal with all the in's and out's of it all? Also... let's let the agencies that should be watching and taking care of our border to the service of deporting people, not a hospital.

So if someone can't produce legal 'paper's for their great-grand many times removed parents then that makes them illegal too?

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 9:27:21 AM

Lockit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I agree with all of this. I wish to be humane, but when people take advantage, the only humane thing in my mind is to teach them a lesson in being a decent person. A decent person doesn't break laws to enter a country and take advantage of the people of that country. I feel, right or wrong, that if the parents are illegal, the baby born here is illegal. Change that law and a whole lot less will be forced upon the American people. That one little loop hole opens a lot of doors and causes a lot of conflict. Whether that could be changed or not, I have no clue.

I think I would like to stick with stablize and deport as a general rule. But why not just fix the problem rather than deal with all the in's and out's of it all? Also... let's let the agencies that should be watching and taking care of our border to the service of deporting people, not a hospital.

So if someone can't produce legal 'paper's for their great-grand many times removed parents then that makes them illegal too?

LOL... I don't know the answer to your question, but I have papers for most of my family from the Mayflower on and some before that. Heck, I can even see their pictures in history books and go to DC and see the work they have done there... can't speak for anyone else. But if you want to argue papers.. yes, I have them.

Good luck with that one darlin... lol

Edited to add... Yes my family has done awful things to people in this land before they got here.. but I can do nothing about that and am not proud of it. I rarely mention it. But... I can comment on things and stand corrected as well... but your arguement simply sucks considering birth cert. and documentation we have established in this country and if you want to argue... lets do it elsewhere unless this is some sort of ax to grind or show.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 5/22/2008 9:31:55 AM >

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 9:29:07 AM

Alumbrado

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Papers from the Mayflower that prove US citizenship? Nice try..

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 9:29:10 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

So take your general rule about why someone would start a thread like this and rethink it because not everyone is motivated in the same way.

.....perhaps i expresed myself unclearly, for which i apologise. i have absolutely no problem with the thread per se. A story in which a legal worker is, effectively, deported while in a coma is a serious issue that needs debate. i take issue with the thread title. it was un-necessary to title it 'illegal immigrants.....', the story is about far more than that. By giving it that title you have switched the focus away from a highly inhumane action by US authorities to the other (and equally important) issue of illegal immigration.
i am sure that you are a highly humane person, but just because something happens to a non-US citizen in the US, then you don't have to narrow the focus to illegal immigration.

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 9:33:54 AM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

I can tell you one thing, I absolutely resent the fact that I end up helping pay for medical care directed towards illegal immigrants but only the illegal ones.The resentment I hold for the legal ones is the same resentment I feel for all of those that get medical assistance while I can't seem to get help. So that bit is an equal opportunity unhappiness heh. As to forcing legal immigrants out, sending them back to their country of origin for treatment? Um not so much. IMO the majority come from places that don't have great medical care, they are legal here and with that should come the certainty that they stay here and not be booted for being sick. There is more in my head but I'm tired and will chime in later if this thread continues.

Camille, I think there's a law that states that a legal immigrant," cannot become a public charge" or something like that.
I think they have to have sponsors who also sign a document that says they'll be financially responsable for said immigrant.
So, if a *legal* immigrant becomes a "public charge" they've broken their contract and can be deported!
They're not supposed to be getting any type of welfare for 10 years.
As for that automatic citizenship by birth crap the 14th Amendment was written in 1868 to give "full citizenship" to "freed slaves".
I don't know how it's gotten so misconstrued that people think that the offspring of illegal aliens get "automatic U.S. Citizenship."
The law was not written for that purpose.
Even the children of foreign Diplomats born in this country are not given U.S. Citizenship, they assume the citizenship of their parents home country.
I was talking to my congressman's office about that a few weeks ago and the lady told me they get a lot of calls from constituents about that and she also agreed that something needs to be done.
And we don't need a Constitutional Amendment to do it either.
There's a congresswoman in Michigan working on it.
A few years ago Ireland did away with "automatic citizenship by birth" as too many people were taking advantage of it.
Now both parents have to be in Ireland legally in order to have their child an Irish Citizen.
And the Irish People were allowed to vote on it and it passed overwhelmingly 80% to 20% and Ireland is a very liberal country!
As for medical care for legal immigrants they're supposed to have their own insurance plans paid for by them.
For illegal aliens it's "emergency care only."
If a hospital goes beyond that it's on their dime.
They can't bill medicaid for it as that would be medicaid fraud.
I mentioned that to my Dr and he replied; gee, you're right, that never occured to me."

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 5/22/2008 9:38:45 AM >

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RE: Illegal Immigrant patients sent to home countries - 5/22/2008 9:34:13 AM

faerytattoodgirl

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I feel, right or wrong, that if the parents are illegal, the baby born here is illegal.

well im guessing this isnt the way in canada. because my parents came from sweden during pregnancy with me. they came here specifically for the health care. although in sweden they have a similar system. the dr's here in canada were FAR better at the time.

i likely would have died if i was born in sweden. i have a serious heart condition(tetralogy of fallot), combine that with being born intersexed...and with the wrong dr i would be dead.

it took canada 4 years and 2 surgeries to stablize me. 2 more surgeries by age 14 for a total of 4. death sentance of age 20. with more surgeries to come.

if i was in sweden...i would be dead by age 4. easily. my surgeries were done in the famous hospital "sick kids" in toronto canada. my parents went back to sweden. they opened my thighs while i was awake without painkillers/anasthetic etc. to stop a clot from spreading. i nearly died right there. parents came back to canada instantly.

my birth certificate clearly states that i am a canadian citizen. my brother for some reason is not allowed this same thing. because he is swedish. but my parents are citizens. which to me means my brother should be. he has to get a swedish passport to go anywhere. yet my parents have a canadian passport, as do i. i am also a citizen of france.

the laws are fucked up.

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