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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 4:13:26 PM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

og, perhaps i could shed some light on this using my own experience as an example:
   
     i have been approached by some D types that want a girl that stays home, but i have UM's, they are private schooled, and involved in several activities.  How could i expect anyone else to pay tuition, piano lessons, soccer or basketball fees,  and  medical insurance...to provide what i provide for them?  Pretty sure there others like myself.  i think for some, it's not  so cut and dry.  It's not always what i don't want to do, but what i can't do.


Thanks tulip :)  Coming from this as a kidless slave certainly changes my perspective.  I appreciate yours, however, and maybe I was just being close-minded.    Let me ask you this - - if someone wanted to marry you and support you and your youngsters (including their private schooling) and keep you home to manage the house, bills and care for him, would you?

       
       Do we HAVE to get married???  You're ruining my buzz...(snickers)
 
    Interesting question...honestly, it would have to be after a lot of getting to know this person.  i am used to being financially responsible for my weeuns...and i happen to love my career.  But for the person i envision in my life,  it would be workable.  i so want to be Martha Stewart and Paula Deen with the right guy....
   
   Why, know Anyone?

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 4:18:27 PM   
gypsygrl


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From: new york state
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quote:

Honestly? That someone wouldn't want to stay at home and care for the Master and his house. It baffles me.


It doesn't baffle me at all.  Its a huge risk.  I did something along those lines with my (vanilla) ex-husband and it sounds very much like the arrangement Mercnbeth described.  It was very much an old fashioned idea of marriage--not wife as parasite but wife as help-mate.

He said he wanted to do something--anything ranging from taking off for alaska to work in the fishing industry to writing a book to starting a grass-roots political organization--and I did my part.  I also took care of the house, our son, managed our finances, did our taxes, went with him to conferences, did editing and anything else.  And, when we needed more income, I went to work part time.

All would have been well and good until he decided he wanted a divorce.  And, it wasn't 1975 when there was alot of good old fashioned feminist public attention directed at the problem of displaced homemakers.  It was 1998 and I was an anachronistic dumbshit with very little to show for a decade of work.

Seriously.  I think women especially are very attuned to the risks involved in devoting everything they have to a single person.  When I was in a M/s relationship, I retained my right to work and did not even come close to considering turning over my finances.   Yeah, I'm well-suited to being that kind of a help-mate but, ya know, once bitten, twice shy.




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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 4:22:25 PM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

quote:

Honestly? That someone wouldn't want to stay at home and care for the Master and his house. It baffles me.


It doesn't baffle me at all.  Its a huge risk.  I did something along those lines with my (vanilla) ex-husband and it sounds very much like the arrangement Mercnbeth described.  It was very much an old fashioned idea of marriage--not wife as parasite but wife as help-mate.

He said he wanted to do something--anything ranging from taking off for alaska to work in the fishing industry to writing a book to starting a grass-roots political organization--and I did my part.  I also took care of the house, our son, managed our finances, did our taxes, went with him to conferences, did editing and anything else.  And, when we needed more income, I went to work part time.

All would have been well and good until he decided he wanted a divorce.  And, it wasn't 1975 when there was alot of good old fashioned feminist public attention directed at the problem of displaced homemakers.  It was 1998 and I was an anachronistic dumbshit with very little to show for a decade of work.

Seriously.  I think women especially are very attuned to the risks involved in devoting everything they have to a single person.  When I was in a M/s relationship, I retained my right to work and did not even come close to considering turning over my finances.   Yeah, I'm well-suited to being that kind of a help-mate but, ya know, once bitten, twice shy.





And people get pissed off and say I am "setting up the circumstances for future failure" when I mention setting up a trust fund/bank account  for a partner who works for me. And here, I just thought I was thinking responsibly-silly me.

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 4:31:23 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
quote:


But what part surprises you?

Honestly?  That someone wouldn't want to stay at home and care for the Master and his house.  It baffles me.


On one hand, I'm surprised as well... on the other, I certainly understand why it might be difficult to find those willing.

I recently had a drastic change to my employment status...

I was laid off.  Not something expected for my line of work as I'm a professional in management.   I was also living in an area where available positions for me in my chosen profession were rare to non-existent.

To be honest, I expected that Firm would be very supportive of me... in a "don't worry, pet, I'm sure you'll find something" way.  What I got instead was "come move in with me and I'll take care of you."

lol... Okay, there's a big "you'll take care of me" in there, too.

I was not expecting a free ride by any shape of the imagination... he currently works in an area that offers many more opportunities for employment for me and I was fully planning to start my employment search the moment I arrived.  In fact, I had an opportunity available to me before I even left Kentucky.  However, he preempted my plans when he announced to me that he decided that he did not want me working outside the home.

As Firm has said before that he considers his sub's job to be hearth and home, I wasn't entirely surprised by this, but in a way, I was.  It came about so unexpectedly and unplanned that, while I assured Firm that I would abide by his decision, I admit that there were moments of fear.  I have worked hard to reach the professional level that I am at and I'm fully aware that any break in employment history will have a detrimental affect should I have to find employment again.  Taking that step is a big one. 

Aside from that, to become financially dependent upon someone else is a little scary, too. 

Don't misunderstand, though... I am thrilled to be able to serve him full-time now.  It is something that I had fervently wished that I had the time to do.  Just being faced with the reality of it was a little challenging.  Thankfully it was not a decision I had to make as I might have balked at the idea of him taking responsibility for me so soon.

I am glad he made the decision he did.  I'm now literally faced with so many ways in which I can be helpful to him that there just aren't enough hours in the day. 

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 4:32:22 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp
i so want to be Martha Stewart and Paula Deen with the right guy....


And this is why I get baffled...
   
quote:


  Why, know Anyone?



Ha - If I find someone for you, I'll send him your way!

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 4:34:22 PM   
dcnovice


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Status: offline 		<fast reply>

What's housework?

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 4:38:49 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Treasure,

I didn't copy your whole post to save space, but I liked it and I'm glad you posted it.  I can understand that both pride and fear can cause someone to take a step back at such an arrangement.  And maybe I'm not as cynical as I thought after my former marriage, but I would still rather enter into a relationship expecting it to work out than to plan for if/when it doesn't.  Trust me when I say I lost everything except my soul in my marriage, and I'm now in my 40s I'm starting over again financially.  So yes, it can indeed be scary to enter into such an arrangement.  I'm not an advocate of doing so blindly.  I am an advocate of committing to the success of a relationship and planning for it, though. 

I really didn't mean to ruffle feathers with my "baffled" comment.  It was a knee-jerk reaction to a scenario that would be a fantasy-come-true for me.  I'm really glad it's working out for you.  I guess your layoff was a blessing in disguise?

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 5/23/2008 4:39:50 PM >

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 4:41:42 PM   
whiteslavebitch


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
quote:

ownedgirlie: Call me crazy (it wouldn't be the first time), but this really surprises me every time you say it

Okay - you're crazy!

Whew, I feel better now. 

quote:


But what part surprises you?

Honestly?  That someone wouldn't want to stay at home and care for the Master and his house.  It baffles me. 


I am that person, who would be extremely unhappy staying at home, without outside employment.

I happen to love what I do for a career, and quitting to be a stay at home slave is a hard limit for me.

Lucky for me I found a Master that didn't want or expect that.

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 4:51:10 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Status: offline 		To clarify, for me personally, I can't see putting my job before my Master.  That's why I feel as I do.  For me personally,  I would feel I was putting myself before my Master, therefore serving myself first.  That is contrary to how I define myself as a slave.  In my case, a job has been necessary and will be necessary again soon.  I will be required (as instructed by my Master) to work.  If he did not want me to work and instructed me otherwise, that's what I would do.  In submitting to him, I submit to what his will is for me.  I personally would not be happy any other way. 

And yes, I understand the world is not all like me (thank god for that).  But that's where I'm coming from and why I have trouble relating to other philosopies.

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 4:52:54 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I guess your layoff was a blessing in disguise?


lol... That's an understatement if I ever saw one.  It's a fantasy-come-true for me, too.

Thank you, owned, and I do think you are right about committment to and planning for the success of a relationship being important.  With Firm and I both having 22+ year marriages behind us, it's a miracle that neither of us is cynical.  But, we'd already committed to our relationship and were making plans for our future together... the layoff simply moved our timetable up a bit. 

Sometimes ya just gotta go with the flow. 

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 4:55:36 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		On the plus side of that treasure...There are also ways to work from home part time, and still be there to serve him. That was always my ideal scenario-have the two of you considered this as an option?

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 5:04:02 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

On the plus side of that treasure...There are also ways to work from home part time, and still be there to serve him. That was always my ideal scenario-have the two of you considered this as an option?


Firm owns his own company so helping to support it is part of my new responsibilities.  The business portion of it I'm familiar with, but learning the specialized work that he does is taking some effort.

Speaking of which... I should get back to it. 

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 5:04:58 PM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

On the plus side of that treasure...There are also ways to work from home part time, and still be there to serve him. That was always my ideal scenario-have the two of you considered this as an option?


Firm owns his own company so helping to support it is part of my new responsibilities.  The business portion of it I'm familiar with, but learning the specialized work that he does is taking some effort.

Speaking of which... I should get back to it. 



Outstanding.

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I'm not taking custom orders.

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 5:13:58 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
Sometimes ya just gotta go with the flow. 



Absolutely!! 

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 5:26:29 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
Well, my "baffling" is probably just me being close-minded and looking at it from my own perspective.  I suppose it would also baffle me that a Master wouldn't want his slave to be happy and fulfilled, too.  My comment wasn't intended in any way to be insulting of those who prefer to go to work, and I hope it wasn't taken as such.  It's just from my own experiences - I don't particularly like housework either, but if it's for someone I love and adore, that changes things for me.  As for getting bored not working, I've been fortunate enough to have gone nearly a year without working and found my life so much more fulfilled - serving him, traveling with him, working on my book, etc.  Again, call me crazy but not living with the Man, I'd give anything to clean his toilets, do his laundry, cook his dinners, etc.  And yes I know we're all different so I'm sorry about my "baffled" comment.  I think about some of the things I would love and react to that, I suppose.


No reason to be sorry, not on my account anyway. I wasn't offended, just wanted to give a few reasons and our own experience.

I agree that doing housework for someone you love changes things but I still don't enjoy it. When we didn't live together, I looked forward to being able to do his laundry and keep a clean house for him so I definately wouldn't call you crazy. Which is why I say it's a romantic notion for me, but I still want to work. Though in my ideal world, work will be in a studio at our house but it will still be work and take me away for shows as another job would take me away for business meetings.

It's all a matter of taste.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 5/23/2008 5:30:27 PM >

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 5:39:48 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		If it's considered abusive to be made to clean the house that you live in, i guess i need to find a "cleanaholics 12 step program" somewhere, because obviously, i am abusing myself and have been since about age 9. 
 
While i may not be an outright O-C 'clean freak', if i sit too long in a waiting room, i will spontaneously start straightening up the magazines lying about and if someone has left a piece of trash behind, i will put it in the trash bin. 
 
If i'm not feeling useful, i feel like i'm wasting valuable time and i will look for ways to feel more useful.  Am i sick, or what?
 
joy
Owned servant of Master David

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 8:07:37 PM   
Padriag


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Someone suggested having a submissive be useful was "abusive" to some schools of thought.

Sort of like people who "hard limit" housework.

Personally,if someone is living under my roof, I expect them to do thier share-it's not as if I do not do the same. Do you think a sub should be willing to work?

I once wrote an essay regarding the concept of basing the value of a slave on the usefulness of a slave.  Some applauded it, more than a few derided it.  The problem some had was the notion that they had to earn their worth... that simply having been born, or having given the "gift of submission" wasn't enough.

Useful has a lot of connotations, doing physical labor is one form.  I have observed that there are many online, and more than a few offline, who have no intention of performing any such work.  This "lifestyle" draws many who are chasing a fantasy hoping to make it a reality without having considered that.  I've also noted that often a quick way to put off a submissive is to ask her what she has to offer other than her appearance, sex, etc.  Sadly, very few have any answer at all.. in fact most won't reply at all.

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/23/2008 8:28:11 PM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Someone suggested having a submissive be useful was "abusive" to some schools of thought.

Sort of like people who "hard limit" housework.

Personally,if someone is living under my roof, I expect them to do thier share-it's not as if I do not do the same. Do you think a sub should be willing to work?

I once wrote an essay regarding the concept of basing the value of a slave on the usefulness of a slave.  Some applauded it, more than a few derided it.  The problem some had was the notion that they had to earn their worth... that simply having been born, or having given the "gift of submission" wasn't enough.

Useful has a lot of connotations, doing physical labor is one form.  I have observed that there are many online, and more than a few offline, who have no intention of performing any such work.  This "lifestyle" draws many who are chasing a fantasy hoping to make it a reality without having considered that.  I've also noted that often a quick way to put off a submissive is to ask her what she has to offer other than her appearance, sex, etc.  Sadly, very few have any answer at all.. in fact most won't reply at all.


Which is exactly how I chase off the flakes and time wasters. I'm not fucking around, my realities are based on performance.

But I have to add this. It always amuses me when some woman starts reeling off this long list of idealized attributes that she calls "standards"..and I sit and listen to them quietly. And ask her what she has to offer of any practical use.
 
 Can you keep books for my business? Do secretarial work?
 
 Do you have a master's degree in something useful to my business? Like engineering, managment-marketing-biological reseach? Do you know how to apply for and successfully get a grant?
 
 No, why not?

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 5/23/2008 9:08:53 PM >

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/24/2008 7:27:52 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Honestly?  That someone wouldn't want to stay at home and care for the Master and his house.  It baffles me.

Hi owned!
Wow - I guess I don't have to respond to this; it seems like others have documented the problems I encountered. Usually the ambitious personality wouldn't want to submit that personality to service as a 24/7 slave. And yet the stereotypical 'doormat' personality doesn't work either. Intellectual, cultural, stimulation is as important and 'useful' to me as compatibility to my sexual and BDSM proclivities.

I think the financial considerations of giving up a job and/or career are legitimate. Therein lies the importance of trust. In a relationship it isn't all about honoring safe-words and limits; its about honor - period.

I very much appreciated those who said no to the idea. There were also quite a few occasions when I also said no to those instantly willing to jump at what they perceived to be an opportunity to 'retire'. There were also circumstances, as many have posted here, that made my demands impossible. Things such as UM's, family, fixation with location are but a few. All those make beth all the more 'special'. I knew from day one that she was VERY rare.

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RE: A useful sub? - 5/24/2008 8:40:26 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

...  Therein lies the importance of trust. In a relationship it isn't all about honoring safe-words and limits; its about honor - period.


Bravo!  You'd be surprised how many don't understand the importance of honor, or even what it is to be honorable.  It's not something you can determine about someone from a handful of online chats, either.

We'd have so much less to read and talk about here, though, if more people understood honor and that the key to a successful relationship was two honorable people honoring the relationship, each other, and themselves... pretty much in that order too. 

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 100
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