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Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 2:18:23 PM   
CelticPrince


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Status: offline 		This just floated into my head as I read a current thread about "D"'s sharing their "s"'s

It seems that the word submissive has become such a often used word to describe a huge variety of mentalities as well as acts and conduct.

recent threads = submissive to describe serice as in paperwork atc
submissive to describe serving "D"s other than their own "D"
submissive to describe slave responsibilities and acts
"always felt I was submissive"
"I am a submissive but not a doormat"

The list goes on but the point is made------- I think!

I candidly do not have an answer to the dilution of the word and historical intent; but i do wonder if anyone has any thoughts on the matter.

CP
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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 2:23:19 PM   
CalifChick


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Status: offline 		You are describing acts that someone does who is submissive. The acts themselves are neither submissive nor dominant (in my opinion). 

I can't even begin to speak to "historical intent" and really, I don't know who could.  I don't see the word as being diluted so much as being misused (in what I believe the meaning of the word to be).

Cali


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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 2:27:40 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

I can't even begin to speak to "historical intent" and really, I don't know who could. I don't see the word as being diluted so much as being misused (in what I believe the meaning of the word to be).


cali, I understand your point but not misuse lead to dilution?

CP

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 2:28:44 PM   
chamberqueen


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Status: offline 		I think that one can have submissive qualities without being a true "submissive" in the lifestyle sense.  Since there are so many opinions on what a "slave" is in comparison, dependent largely upon the partners involved, some submissives actually act in a more slavelike manner than slaves. 

A submissive actually has more power in most relationships, since they are willingly giving theirs over.  All they have to do is take it back.  If things aren't to their liking they can simply walk out the door.  Being a submissive is NOT synonymous with being a doormat.  A good Dom/me will care for their submissive's needs.  This doesn't mean that the person in the submissive role should be in charge of the whole show; after all, their role is to be submissive to another.  However, this does not mean that they give up all rights to their body and their thinking unless they have willingly handed that over.

Some tops and bottoms will take advantage - either of each other or of the lifestyle - to fill their own needs above anyone else's.  As a switch, I can't stand subs writing to me and expecting to dictate my every move as a Dom.  I also know firsthand the respect that should be shown by the submissive towards their Dom/me once that respect and corresponding trust has been earned.  Being a submissive does not mean being so to everyone; only to the one that you have an agreement with.  Because of so many tops assuming that they are automatically somehow above these bottoms it has made subs feel the need to assert themselves more strongly.  Just think - if no one ever abused power....


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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 2:32:09 PM   
Floggings4You


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Status: offline 		Most words have more than one meaning.  Until a specific meaning is understood, it's always best to define O/one's terms...

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 2:32:22 PM   
UncleNasty


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Status: offline 		I think of it less as noun and more as a verb. "She acts in submissive ways" as ooposed to "She is a submissive." One lives and breathes and for me the other is more like a lifeless unchanging object. I like some life in my partners, LOL, as necromancy is not a kink I embrace.


Uncle Nasty

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 2:39:42 PM   
CalifChick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince
cali, I understand your point but not misuse lead to dilution?


Perhaps to people who don't know what the word means. To the rest of us, it just leads to snickering behind our hands.

Cali


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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 2:41:22 PM   
CalifChick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

I think of it less as noun and more as a verb. "She acts in submissive ways" as ooposed to "She is a submissive."


To me "She is a submissive" actually means, "She is a submissive person."  Until someone invents a new word to combine the two, we tend to drop the noun. 

Cali


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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 3:22:23 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
To me "She is a submissive" actually means, "She is a submissive person."  Until someone invents a new word to combine the two, we tend to drop the noun. 

Cali



I think this way too, Cali.  I know some people claim "submissive is not a noun, therefore someone can not be a submissive" but I see it as abbreviated speaking. 

Regarding the OP, everyone has their own definition of what submissive means or of what it should mean.  Yes, there are some walks of life who believe the word is dilluted.  I think in certain cases it is.  But I don't know if there is a need to create a "standard," do you think there is?  I mean, we can try to establish some sort of ISO 9001 certification for submissives and the like, but I think the odds of success are slim to none.  It's probably best to talk to those one may be interested in, and get a feel if they share similar beliefs and definitions.

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 3:25:12 PM   
Leatherist


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Status: offline 		This is simply what is bound to happen when ones uses stereotypes and cliches as shortcuts.

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 4:19:15 PM   
slavegirljoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

I think of it less as noun and more as a verb. "She acts in submissive ways" as ooposed to "She is a submissive."

The word, "submissive" is an adjective, a modifier of nouns, which is why i am not "a submissive" but, i am a submissive woman and, i have a submissive personality, although some people refer to it as an orientation.  In that case, my personality is oriented toward being a submissive woman.  In my intimate relationships, i behave submissively (adverb).  In my relationship with my Master, my submission (noun) is complete.

 
For me, it's not a misnomer.  It's just one more way to describe me and how i behave in intimate relationships.  To me, it's a good word.  There aren't any others, that i know of, that would be better to use. 
 
joy
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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 4:26:00 PM   
JohnWarren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

I think of it less as noun and more as a verb. "She acts in submissive ways" as ooposed to "She is a submissive." One lives and breathes and for me the other is more like a lifeless unchanging object. I like some life in my partners, LOL, as necromancy is not a kink I embrace.


Uncle Nasty


Ah, unfortunately the English professor in me has to point out, you are talking about an adjective, not a verb.

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 4:41:52 PM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

I think of it less as noun and more as a verb. "She acts in submissive ways" as ooposed to "She is a submissive." One lives and breathes and for me the other is more like a lifeless unchanging object. I like some life in my partners, LOL, as necromancy is not a kink I embrace.


Uncle Nasty

This prompted me to write this about the nature of 'submissive'.
~a submssive~....en-soi....in itself.....like a thing. Like we would say of a stone; gray, round, granite, pebble, rock and so forth. A submissive is therefore a person who is submissive, is seen to kneel, to beg, to serve, to be an object upon which a dominant exerts control, an object for the passive receipt of pain and so on. A submissive is an object which is seen as similar to, unlike, or contracdictory to other objectifications within what is known as the lifestyle. Differentated from what is not submissive, differentiated from what is dominant for example.
And; pour-soi....for itself, essence, essentially one who has a sense of submitting in the presence of another who is felt to be dominat, one who has the sense of deferment, of deference and of wanting to serve another, to become the object of servitude, to become one who is the object of its owner's pleasure. This is a function of which the submissive themselves are aware and for which they therefore give their consent.
I would therefore say that I have an understanding of what a submissive IS and an empathy towards what a submissive DOES.
Yes I agree: there could be a sense of cultural, historical and protocols of which I am able to differentiate my concept of submissive from another concept of submissive; in the same way that I might distinguish let's say coal from limeastone if we were to go back to the stone analogy.
But there is no sense which I could make about my own essential feeling or understanding of my submission from that to which any other self-referring submissive might make. We each have our own subjective (very subjective) interpretation of what we do as submissive acts. And that's just it isn't it: finding the one/or other whose subjective essence fits....the dominant essence that completes or makes holistic sense of one's own acts of submission. But of course it is possible to be essentailly submissive without any refeence to domination.....by simply feeling oneself, and understanding oneself to be submissive.
In that sense there is no sense of dilution or cultural compromise in who I am. There is negotiation and consensus in what I am though but (and this is where the analogy of the stone has to end) what I am, as an object defined by another, must stem from, must be congruous with what I feel myself essentially to be.
I get very defensive  when I am told I am a dilution (etc) of what I feel myself to be both within and without relationships of intimacy and eroticism.
Prin xx


< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 5/23/2008 4:43:39 PM >

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 4:44:09 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

I think of it less as noun and more as a verb. "She acts in submissive ways" as ooposed to "She is a submissive."


To me "She is a submissive" actually means, "She is a submissive person."  Until someone invents a new word to combine the two, we tend to drop the noun. 

Cali



I think submissive has effectively become a noun. Dictionaries just haven't caught on yet.

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 5:56:09 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

can try to establish some sort of ISO 9001 certification for submissives and the like,


girlie,

ISO 9001, laughs // nice thought tho; errrrr how about sub 1st class , 2nd class??? etc. grins
thanks for your on point input.

CP

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 5:58:16 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

Perhaps to people who don't know what the word means. To the rest of us, it just leads to snickering behind our hands.


cali,

slides a [does] into the original answer. excuse my FFS.

CP

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 6:00:22 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

This is simply what is bound to happen when ones uses stereotypes and cliches as shortcuts.


L,

Ahmen to that! any thoughts on solving the problem?

CP

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 6:02:24 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

The word, "submissive" is an adjective, a modifier of nouns, which is why i am not "a submissive" but, i am a submissive woman and, i have a submissive personality, although some people refer to it as an orientation. In that case, my personality is oriented toward being a submissive woman. In my intimate relationships, i behave submissively (adverb). In my relationship with my Master, my submission (noun) is complete.


joy,

the West Coast is really short of English teachers!

CP

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 6:08:12 PM   
MidMichCowboy


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Status: offline 		Noun       Singular      submissive
              Plural          submissives
submissive (plural submissives)
one who submits
To agree to another's will or to leave to another's discretion. Form of surrender.

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RE: Has "submissive become a misnomer? - 5/23/2008 6:22:03 PM   
CelticPrince


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quote:

Noun Singular submissive
Plural submissives
submissive (plural submissives)
one who submits
To agree to another's will or to leave to another's discretion. Form of surrender.


MMC,

Was that from Grolier's or Webster?

CP

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