RE: When will it end?...... (Full Version)

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DesertRat -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 2:48:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Some rules save lives. The safety belt rule is a perfect example of that. If you don't want to abide by the rules, don't: just be ready to deal with the consequences.


Don't the rules circumvent the process of natural selection, though? Like, if idiots who don't want to wear helmets or use seat belts are forced to do so, won't that, statistically speaking, increase the number of idiots in the population? And what if they're forced to strap their idiot children into child safety seats in cars? Won't that increase the chances of survival of the aforementioned idiot children in an accident? And then, aren't those kids likely to go on and have kids as stupid as their parents? It bodes ill for the gene pool.

Bob




Emperor1956 -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 2:55:31 PM)

quote:

Don't the rules circumvent the process of natural selection, though? Like, if idiots who don't want to wear helmets or use seat belts are forced to do so, won't that, statistically speaking, increase the number of idiots in the population? And what if they're forced to strap their idiot children into child safety seats in cars? Won't that increase the chances of survival of the aforementioned idiot children in an accident? And then, aren't those kids likely to go on and have kids as stupid as their parents? It bodes ill for the gene pool.


NO!  This is a classic misunderstanding of "natural selection".  It works over genetic populations over several generations, NOT on individual "bad" behavior.  For "natural selection' to work, the weak genetic material has to be weeded out before the carrier reproduces.   How often does a seatbelt prevent the passing on of "bad genes"?   And all you do if you don't enforce child safety seat laws, is kill off the offspring of sad or stupid people, NOT the genetic material.

E.





Zensee -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 3:12:14 PM)

Again - seatbelts are not just for the safety of the people in a crashing vehicle (where they statistically will abso-fukin-lutely reduce deaths and injuries), they are ALSO to protect other drivers from becoming embroiled in your mistakes and misfortunes. Seatbelts keep you in the driver's seat where you need to be during an emergent situation.

Case in point from my school-bus driving days. A driver on a rough bit of road, not wearing his belt, hit a bump and was thrown from his seat into the step well, head first, and knocked unconscious. He shortly awoke, upside down, to a bus full of screaming children, hurtling down the road, with no driver. Fortunately he was able to regain control before a further collision occurred but it could as easily ended in tragedy rather than comedy.

So, SummerWind, before you go insulting me because of my nationality again, perhaps you would consider the wisdom of this little tale and take a moment to consider that you are not alone in your choices, especially on the road, and that we all owe each other a duty of care where our lives overlap. Wearing a seatbelt is one of those entirely reasonable obligations for using the public roadways.


Z.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 3:13:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

t: Luigi's pizza, may I take your order ?
w: I'd like a pepperoni, sausage and mushroom, large
t: Fine, now all I need is your med ID number
w: What ?
t: We are not allowed to sell you pizza with processed meat on it unless you cholesterol is under 170
w: What ? 
t: Yes and if your BMI is out of shape we can only send you a small veggie pizza, unless you can prove you are not eating it alone.
w: What ?
t: OK so what is your medical ID number, so I can process your order.
w: 292-4457822
t: I'm sorry that number does not show up in the database, did you possibly make a mistake ?
w: Nope, that's what it says
t: Well then what are the last four digits of your social security number ?
w: For a pizza ?
t: The law is the law
w: OK 4459
t: AHA Mr Jones, the database shows your number to be 292-4457882, and it says your cholesterol is 195, sorry we can't put pepperoni on your pizza
w: Well what can you put on my pizza then ?
t: Alfalfa sprouts, BHA and BHT, ascorbic acid, viagra, aluminum silicate or sodium benzite
w: Then what about anchovies ?
t: Sorry sir, too much salt for you.
w: How about fried chicken then ?
t: We normally don't put chicken on pizza, but under regulations we are only allowed to sell you chicken that is boiled for four hours.
w: Doesn't sound too tasty.
t: Well we all have to do our part to improve people's health, and prolong life
w: What good is it to prolong life if I am sitting here with plenty of money in my pocket and can't order a fucking pepperoni pizza ?
t: You should put all that money in the bank sir, so you don't get robbed
w: Why fucking bother ? Rob me because apparently my money is no good anyway
t: We are sending an ambulance over right away sir
w: Why
t: You are obviously imbalanced and in need of help, please call Luigi's pizza again after you get out. Remember to tell your doctors to update your medical profile so we know what foods are safe for you.

THAT is where we are headed.

T
Quoting this without giving a citation is plagiarism, you know.




MasterGangelS -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 3:42:03 PM)

Ok, so what WILL have to happen before people start actually protesting?

Laws are good if they seriously do contribute to others' wellbeing. If it's a personal choice, however, and affects no-one else, shouldn't you have the right to not wear a helmet? 

Where IS it going to end? When the Powers That Be tell us what to eat and when? How often per day we can use the toilet?  In what positions we can fuck other consenting adults?




rulemylife -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 3:55:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SummerWind

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

First I have to stop smearing my brains all over the roads or becoming a vegetable burden on the public trying to do so.
Then I have to stop being flung from the drivers seat of my car, turning a minor collision into something much worse.
THEN I have to stop harming others with my addiction to nicotine.
NOW I can't kill animals and brandish their bodies at sporting events!

WFT is the world coming to? If I want inconvenience and injure others or needlessly kill innocent creatures, I should be able to do so as and when I see fit!


Z.



I would expect a "big brother needs to watch over and protect me from myself and others" mentality from the dopes in the Middle East or even Canadians..........oops


Those damn Canadians.  Didn't we have a war with them recently?  Oh, wait, that was on South Park.  Doesn't matter, we still kicked their asses!   [sm=anger.gif][sm=anger.gif]   




rulemylife -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 4:01:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

Ya know...... there are reasons that I find many (if not all) of the recently passed laws concerning Protecting Me From Myself to be bogus.

When I was a kid, my parents owned vehicals that didn't even HAVE seatbelts.... but gee, we not only survived, we thrived. (And hell, we got left in the car when mom ran into the c-store for 3 minutes, with the car running, without seatbelts.... and didn't get carjacked, and didn't kill ourselves mucking about with the transmission and putting the car in gear - because we knew if we didn't behave while mom was in the store, she'd make us wish we hadn't been born when she got back to the car!)
 
We didn't have Nintendo and Sega and Gameboy and PS3 (or cable TV, DishNetwork, computers) and all that crap... we got our butts sent outside to play... in the street.... we not only survived, we thrived, and without *gasp* getting kidnapped  (though no doubt there were days when our parents wished we would be!  I know with my folks it wasn't "stay where I can see you" it was "be back by supper.")
 
we went Trick-or-Treating in our own neighborhood - not the local shopping mall, zoo, and college campus activities center.... and we not only survived, we thrived (without our parents being paranoid that someone was going to poison us unless - you count the bellyaches from to much candy in to short a time we gave Ourselves!)
 
Our mothers smoked and drank while pregnant with us... and we not only survived, we thrived, and turned out to be intelligent (well, ok, Some of us turned out to be intelligent - some turned out to be Sheeple, but that seems to be what our government Prefers, so maybe the Sheep were being born to the non-smokers and non-drinkers!)
 
We got spankings when we misbehaved or acted disrespectful of our parents... and we not only survived, we Thrived (not only did we Not turn out to be mass murdering psycho-sociopaths we turned out to be better people because there was a wee bit of Discipline instilled in our lives!)
 
There's a country song out (yeah, I know, a lot of ya detest country music.. but hey, at least it Is music, rather than simply rhythmic noise) that mentions a lot of things of this nature.  "We were born to mothers who smoked and drank, our cribs were covered in lead based paint.... no helmets on bikes, no seatbelts in cars ... yet still - Here we Are"
 
I believe it was Jefferson who stated - and rightly so - "Those who would sacrifice liberty for a bit of safety, deserve neither liberty Or safety."



Benjamin Franklin
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin




rulemylife -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 4:14:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Some rules save lives. The safety belt rule is a perfect example of that. If you don't want to abide by the rules, don't: just be ready to deal with the consequences.




Actually,seat-belts weren`t the 1st outrage .

The signs of the heavy hand of our tyrannical government came years before,with laws about food quality and purity.


There were the new fangled fancy laws that prohibited the marketing of narcotics and hard drugs like heroin from Sears and Roebucks and patent medicines were made to show efficacy and safety.Damm government!!!

New,intrusive laws requiring a saw-bones to get training and a license before calling himself a doctor .Talk about squashing entrepreneurship,jesus,when will it end?.

Then there was that fascist law saying that your product had to do what it claimed and some nazi-like laws saying that banks had to keep only one set of books and had to follow basic guidelines.Fuckers!

Then that ugly law requiring a drivers license ,smashed all us poe-folk into dust.How did we survive?

It`s a slippery slope,indeed...[8|]


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Kittin makes a good point.

If you want to be a scofflaw,fine.Just be prepared for the consequences.

If you don`t want to wear your seatbelt,then live with your face being sliced off as you hurdle through the windshield and pay for your own care after the permanent head injury.Take the ticket for not wearing it w/out the crybaby act.

Same with helmets.If you`re dumb enough to ride at high speeds w/out one,don`t come crawling to the government to be cared for when the medical bills bankrupt you.

As for smoking,keep your fucking disgusting stink out`a my air.If fact,smoke two cigs at once in a closed closet for all I care.Just don`t cry over the taxes you pay to compensate the government for the cost of caring for smokers.






Well, you're making two different arguments here so let me reply to the first one.  There's a difference to government making laws to protect people from negligence or deliberate harm and government becoming a "nanny" to protect me from myself.   




rulemylife -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 4:45:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

Again - seatbelts are not just for the safety of the people in a crashing vehicle (where they statistically will abso-fukin-lutely reduce deaths and injuries), they are ALSO to protect other drivers from becoming embroiled in your mistakes and misfortunes. Seatbelts keep you in the driver's seat where you need to be during an emergent situation.

Case in point from my school-bus driving days. A driver on a rough bit of road, not wearing his belt, hit a bump and was thrown from his seat into the step well, head first, and knocked unconscious. He shortly awoke, upside down, to a bus full of screaming children, hurtling down the road, with no driver. Fortunately he was able to regain control before a further collision occurred but it could as easily ended in tragedy rather than comedy.

So, SummerWind, before you go insulting me because of my nationality again, perhaps you would consider the wisdom of this little tale and take a moment to consider that you are not alone in your choices, especially on the road, and that we all owe each other a duty of care where our lives overlap. Wearing a seatbelt is one of those entirely reasonable obligations for using the public roadways.


Z.



I agree entirely.  Why only a seatbelt though?  Don't you think it is entirely reasonable to require helmets too?  After all, if you check the statistics the leading cause of death in automobile crashes is head injury.  I mean all the race car drivers wear them (think Dale Jr.).  Just think of the safety euphoria we will have.  Auto insurance rates will drop to near zero, medical insurance rates will plummet, the birds will sing again and the flowers will bloom.  I hope you'll join me on this important crusade. Before you know it everyone will be wearing one.  We'll be the vanguards of a new generation of safety in America.




FullCircle -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 4:55:53 PM)


I don't mind if people don't wear their seatbelt as long as they aren’t sitting behind me.
On the other hand I can’t imagine anyone being allowed onto a construction site without PPE such as hardhat and steel caped boots. It’s just sensible to recognise people are sometimes ignorant to dangers and need to be protected from bravado and laziness.




camille65 -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 5:08:18 PM)

Where will it end? Depends on how you look at it I guess. I think that there has to be enforced responsibility (for lack of a better phrase) because there will always be idiots that end up damaging themselves or others.Because I no longer trust that a stranger will do the right thing 'just because' and not sue me if we get into an accident and he gets hurt but I had my seatbelt on and I'm okay.  Where is the line drawn? So we do away with seat belt and helmet laws.Cancel out drunk driving as a problem because that is a totally personal choice too.Get rid of redundant directions on the back of shampoo bottles.Don't require immunizations for any people because some don't trust them.Remove warnings from cigarette packages because everyone knows they're terrible but its a personal choice.Take out all the warnings on prescription drugs, let it be the companies personal choice as to side effect notification.Close down CPS because it is an adults right to do what they want with their own offspring.Don't have a basic level of education as a requirement, if a parent is okay with the education stopping at 5th grade that is fine. The above was sometimes exaggerated, but only to a degree.




rulemylife -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 5:11:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle


I don't mind if people don't wear their seatbelt as long as they aren’t sitting behind me.
On the other hand I can’t imagine anyone being allowed onto a construction site without PPE such as hardhat and steel caped boots. It’s just sensible to recognise people are sometimes ignorant to dangers and need to be protected from bravado and laziness.



Why?  Why is it sensible for you or the government to be able to control my personal behavior that does not directly affect you or society?  Shouldn't things like this be my own decision?   




rulemylife -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 5:15:57 PM)

Mixing apples and oranges somewhat, don't you think?




FullCircle -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 5:25:03 PM)

People have to make informed choices but not everyone is informed and it is a tragedy when someone needlessly dies because they feel being told to wear a seatbelt is an infringement of their freedoms. Every death has a cost to society:
A police investigation costs society money.
A loss of workforce cost the economy.
People need counselling because you died in front of them or they feel they killed you.
They get depressed and can’t work.
Society has to pay for their counselling.




kittinSol -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 5:26:13 PM)

Actually, the reason why these rules are made is usually because they protect each of us from each other's actions. Take the safety belt: if you don't have it on and you get crashed against the dashboard, you don't have the opportunity to stay in your seat and perhaps, do something about the direction your car is going. Then imagine (god forbid) that you run over someone. Take cigarettes: it's your freedom to smoke, but it's other people's freedom not to breathe in your poisoned atmosphere. These rules at least send out the message that personal freedom depends on the respect of another person's space.

Like I said earlier, you are free to not respect the rules.




windchymes -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 5:33:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Get rid of redundant directions on the back of shampoo bottles


See, now you're over the top!  Take away "Lather. Rinse. Repeat." from the backs of shampoo bottles and we'll be nothing but a whole nation full of bad, dirty, greasy bed heads!




camille65 -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 5:41:38 PM)

[8D]I know..




faerytattoodgirl -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 5:42:48 PM)

when the toronto maple leafs win the stanley cup.  the world will die of shock.




rulemylife -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 6:04:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

when the toronto maple leafs win the stanley cup.  the world will die of shock.


and then we'll be forced to pass a law to disband the team, and maybe the entire NHL, because of the needless deaths they caused




FullCircle -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/24/2008 6:19:28 PM)

The older you get the less you are worth to society a lecturer told me once. He was the kind of person that could rationally put a cost to anything leaving aside the romance of human suffering and the immeasurable cost of that.

The logic is that your earnings potential goes down the older you get because a young person can get interest on their savings through the period of their life where as an old person may be paid more for their experience but it will never match the interest earned on a young persons savings and the fact they will gain experience and be paid an equivalent amount in the future to what the old person is getting now. When you hear in court how much a company should be made liable for the death of an employee that is what these calculations are based on. How much will the widow get? Obviously it is cheaper for the employer to insist on a few rules.

My lecturer concluded that if you are going to run someone over you better make sure it's an old person.




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